228 replies to this topic

[Jakob Knight]

Kaarde, on 19 March 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

To recap..I do not want LRM's made into the missle version of machine guns. I have a problem with the way they are broken currently leading most people to be boating them to take advantage of this. No where did I ever bring ECM into the converstaion and nor do I care to continue walking in circles with you on this.

No, you did not bring ECM into the conversation, and that was the problem. When you want to change a system, you have to look at the entire situation, and not just one part.

ECM is a major factor in the use of LRMs in the game, preventing their use in the majority of battles I have been in. To not take that aspect into account when I say the damage profile that has lead to LRMs being used once again is simply proceeding without regards to the reality of what LRMs -should- be in the game, a point you have repeatedly said is a goal of yours.

So I will ask you this....given that LRMs face more barriers to use than any other weapon in the game, and can be rendered completely unusable by a single, 1.5 ton piece of equipment, what do you think would be an equitable effect that would make LRMs as justifiable to have in any battle as an Ultra AC/5, PPC, Large Laser, or Gauss Rifle?

[Hotthedd]

Jakob Knight, on 19 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

The flaw in your analysis is that LRMs were not OP before ECM was put in. They were pretty much being outrun by light mechs and their damage was average due to the large amount of cover and the other counters to them that were effective in controlling their use. When ECM was put in, it decimated LRM use because all of the counters and the light mech immunity were retained on top of this. Then the light mech ability to outrun LRMs were fixed, the general damage was upped, and other changes were instituted in a vain attempt to make them somewhat useful.

In short, ECM was not put in because LRMs were OP, but because the devs wanted to completely eliminate them from most play. If anything, the arguments at the time were that Streaks were OP.

Not a flaw. LRMs WERE overpowered before ECM, and they still are. ECM was an overdone attempt to neutralize the LRM spam. TAG being buffed leveled it back a bit, but now we are seeing overlapping splash damage in addition to the only weapon in the game with a 60% buff to its TT damage. As Far as leg damage is concerned, I have a thory that missiles the miss you an hit the ground near you are causing splash damage to the legs.

Jakob Knight, on 19 March 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

No. You cannot use LRMs outside of 200m either (check the stats for ECM, and you will note you cannot lock onto an ECM-protected unit outside of 200m...which means no LRMs).

As to your statement, it reveals a lack of understanding. How is that other guy going to shoot his LRMs when the enemy's other guy is also standing next to him, jamming him with ECM?

The fact is that any solution requiring two people to overcome one when the number of players on each team is equal is, by definition, a solution based on imbalance and lack of sustainability.

TAG

[Jakob Knight]

Treckin, on 19 March 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

I hate to say this but after I read that I decided you were either a troll, a moron, or both.

I guess someone had to take up the lower end of humanity's bell curve, might as well be you?

Your decision merely confirms that you have already occupied that point on the curve, since only a moron or troll would not understand the level to which LRMs have been reduced to in this game. Perhaps you should read up on what they are supposed to be by researching the original material?

Or, perhaps that would be too much work for you. I know it strains the brain cells a bit to read.

[M4rtyr]

I love the tools that know about a bug and think everything is related to that bug. I don't know about more damage happening but there are ALOT more claims of higher missiles damages then yesterday.

On top of that the splash damage bug doesn't effect all the mechs to the same degree. Nor is it 100% in live, the mech that gets it worst is the commando. I've hit commandos head on and they've taken reasonable damage from my SRMs and then I hit one last night that I literally destroyed all of its locations in one shot. So the splash bug in live is somehow situational.

But the larger mechs aren't nearly as impacted by this anyway and there are far more complaints of it now on all mechs. So I wouldn't jump on the 'splash damage bug' if I were you.

[Jakob Knight]

Hotthedd, on 19 March 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

TAG

I would like to see you TAG an enemy you have no line-of-sight on, or better yet, hold TAG on a unit through the entire launch-to-land process on a typical map. It doesn't work.

Further, I'd really like to see you TAG something in your CPLT-A1. I would very much like to see that.

[Myrrdoch]

Yeah, I'll be honest. I haven't noticed much of an increase in damage as of this patch, and I've been running a boat for several months now. I could see Raven pilots yelling because of hitbox issues being corrected, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here. I wouldn't be adverse to them reducing the damage done a little bit, just to see how it all works out, though. Especially now that missiles are hitting heads. But fixing the splash bug seems to be the number one priority, I would think.

[Heffay]

[wolf74]

Note if an enemy mech with ecm is with in 180m you can NOT tag a target outside the ecm bubble and get a lock. I know I have tried often. So tag is not a end to ecm nor are pcc's which leave most Catapult A-1 use almost solely SRM builds vs the LRM stock version.

There are high odds I am one of a very few that have a total of 30LRM tubes on their A-1.

[Dan Nashe]

I was fine with LRMs 2 days ago. They are definitely feeling more powerful than before. I'm suddenly way more successful in my 5J with only one LRM-15 rack.

Also, there's another thread about legs getting blown off. Seriously, I've been seeing Jaegermechs and Atlai suddenly having orange legs to an extent I'm finding unusual. I really think that something went wrong with this patch, I just don't know what it is. The splash damage bug was supposed to be a problem mostly for small mechs. Although it could relate to new mechs with lots of little leg components, which could include the new Jaeger, and the Atlas could just be a coincidence.

I could be completely wrong, missiles could be fine and working as intended, my data is anecdotal. But there are enough people saying that things really seem different today compared to yesterday to merit a serious investigation.

To re-iterate. LRMs hitting for an average of 1.4 per missile spread over the mech isn't my concern at the moment. It's LRMs somehow seeming to possibly deal an average of 5-10 per missile, or always hitting the CT and Head, or in some other way being possibly bugged that is a concern. It is possible what people are seeing is enemy teams launching over 200 missile volleys. However, if that is becoming common, the game balance needs to be fixed. Time will tell, maybe in 3 days it will just feel like mass hysteria.

My plan rather than panicking, is to simply equip my Treb-7M with 30-45 LRMs and see if I'm suddenly OP. Maybe an LRM DDC for fun. Always wanted to try one.

P.S., this should really be in the bug report forum.
P.P.S. this really shouldn't degenerate into a "what makes for balanced LRMs" argument.
If you think the poster who says his Cataphract was cored by 30 LRMs is delusional, than a simple explanation of what you think might really be happening is fine. Without the name-calling. But if you're seriously saying that it's fine for two LRM-15s to one shot a Cataphract or to do 150+ total damage, then make your position clear. In another thread.

Edited by DanNashe, 19 March 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

raptorak, on 19 March 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Since this latest patch my flame's arms and legs have been falling off in single volleys of LRMs. Some guy standing miles away shooting auto-aim missiles can cripple my mech almost instantly. It is absolutely insane. LRMs were bad enough before but now they are pure evil.

Sure I can stand behind a wall all match, but how long until I am surrounded by 3Ls or in the path of a dakkaphract? I tried maxing my leg armour and it made little difference, I tried putting in an AMS and all that did was add extra damage to my CT when my legs were blown off.

LRMs are a constant annoyance and only fun for the guy firing them. They either need a major nerf to their damage or tracking ability, or the AMS system needs a massive buff.

Im new, please nerf everything i cant figure out how to counter.....


thats what you are saying.

[jubbly]

Jakob Knight, on 19 March 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

I would like to see you TAG an enemy you have no line-of-sight on, or better yet, hold TAG on a unit through the entire launch-to-land process on a typical map. It doesn't work.

Further, I'd really like to see you TAG something in your CPLT-A1. I would very much like to see that.

Tag works fine with LRMs. You just need to work the range better. LRMs @ 350m+ is a thing of the past. If you are not tagging your own targets your doing it wrong. Unless you have a tag scout working for you.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I'm moving this to the Patch feedback Section, and referencing it for others to use as a thread for discussing high LRM damage post-patch.

[Psikez]

Jakob Knight, on 19 March 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Then you should look in the mirror.

Seriously, all I have ever seen since day one of Closed Beta is "LRMs are hurting me! Make the Devs stop them so I don't have to worry about them!". It gets -very- tiring to see the trolls from Counterstrike who simply cannot deal with anything but brawlfests get their way in this game.

I am well aware of my troll status thanks.

Closed Beta I spent my entire time in a 360XL Dragon hunting LRM boats.

I don't need ECM.

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

7,202/2,547=2.82...

I think it's above 3 in reality, i tested my LRMs before and did like 400 hits for 15% accuracy.


And you say you are Testing internally ... LOL L2MakeAGame PGI...

Edited by Shadowpunisher, 19 March 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[zverofaust]

Yep, this is beyond ridiculous. Was cruising along in River City and got hit by ONE volley of LRMs in between cover... all armour red.

What the hell guys...

[Chavette]

The dmg is brutally high, each missle is like a nuke by itself!!

[Gaan Cathal]

Jakob Knight, on 19 March 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

I would like to see you TAG an enemy you have no line-of-sight on, or better yet, hold TAG on a unit through the entire launch-to-land process on a typical map. It doesn't work.

So get line of sight? I do fairly well in my LRM40 C1, generally fight at 250-400m. Indirect LRM fire is a side advantage of the weapon system, not it's primary damage vector. And yes, I TAG.

[Aesthetech]

LRMs needed a nerf since before this patch. Whenever I'm busy chatting with friends on IM, talking on the phone, watching a hockey game and eating pizza, I use LRM boats and still come out way ahead. They're nuts if you actually know what you're doing and pay attention to the game.

..And then there's this patch. Cripes.

[hammerreborn]

Anyone else have this happen to you? I've never seen this prior to this patch but it's rapidly becoming the norm.

My mech is a Jenner for those wondering.

[Jman5]

hammerreborn, on 19 March 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Anyone else have this happen to you? I've never seen this prior to this patch but it's rapidly becoming the norm.

My mech is a Jenner for those wondering.

I saw it happen to a centurian earlier. Completely and utterly eviscerated minus the head.