69 replies to this topic

[CutterWolf]

"Why Coolant Flush is broken"

Your mech is using a liquid cooling system to cool off weapons and other heat building items.

""Heat sinks, which sharing names with real world passive radiators found in computers, are actually complete heat pumps, not "true" heat sinks in the engineering sense. They serve as a BattleMech's means of protecting itself from internal damage caused by heat, as most 'Mechs' weapons easily cause enough heat to fry the machine's own electronics or melt its plastic muscles, the myomers that make 'Mechs possible.
Heat sinks operate by collecting heat with coolant distributed to heat sources (weapons, engines, myomers, electronics, etc.) and delivering that to a radiator. Because a BattleMech may operate in environments considerably hotter than the interior of the 'Mech, the system includes a heat pump to "force" the heat out of the 'Mech by elevating the temperature of the coolant in some reversible fashion. (The vapor-compression heat pump of home air conditioners is a typical example, but 31st Century BattleMechs may make use of more exotic heat pumps.)
Note that if the heat sinks were true heat sinks or simple combustion engine radiators, a BattleMech operating in a hot environment would find the exterior heat being driven into the BattleMech rather than having internal heat rejected.
BattleMechs generally have two types of heat sinks: those mounted in the fusion engine and those mounted elsewhere on the chassis. The chassis-mounted heat sinks perform as described above, while the engine-mounted heat sinks constitute a "regenerative cooling" system that scavenges excess heat for power.
Heat sinks are made of a number of materials. Traditional heat sinks, the so-called single strength heat sinks, typically use radiators made of very thermally conductive oriented graphite (which may have up to five times the thermal conductivity of copper). Double heat sinks have largely replaced normal heat sinks. They dissipate twice as much heat for the same tonnage, but take up more space to operate effectively because of their use of a crystalline polymer. This polymer, similar to the engine shielding of XL fusion engines, is not as thermally conductive as graphite but significantly lighter and more durable, allowing it to be formed into a larger radiator for the same mass.
The actual coolant circulating in the heat sink varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and military to military. Heavy oils (hydrocarbon and silicone) are favored for their high boiling points and thus may be contained by low pressure tubing. Water-based coolants, typically modified with glycols, have nearly unbeatable heat capacities and are readily available for resupply. Freons work very effectively with the heat pumps in heat sinks. Some gases, like helium, also find use in heat sinks. Contrary to what might be thought, liquid nitrogen is a very poor coolant - it has very little heat capacity and boils far too easily.
Despite the heat pump, heat sinks are affected by the surrounding environment as a matter of basic thermodynamics - it takes less work to dump heat into a cold environment than a hot one, and water is a better coolant than air. Many 'Mechs on desert worlds often have to be refitted for the different conditions, or risk overheating from the compounded effects of weapons-fire and the environment. Conversely, heat sinks operating in cold regions and worlds dissipate heat much more effectively, as the environment's natively-cold temperature helps cool the BattleMech by default. This often leads to many garrisons on ice-worlds using a larger number of energy weapons, as they don't have to worry about heat as much. A 'Mech submerged in water, however, is often the one with the most efficient heat sinks as they can pump dense water (with its enormous heat capacity) over the heat sink radiators instead of low density air. (BattleTechWiki)""

So we have a closed cooling system much like your car, now imagine if you hooked up a valve to your lower radiator hose so you could dump/flush 30% of your coolant when your car started to over heat. Would you see a reduction in heat? Answer, yes but, how long do you think you could run your car on 30% less coolant? Answer, not long at all. Would your car be able to cool at the same rate it did at 100% coolant? Answer, No, it would be a lot less effective.

So knowing all of this why in the world would I ever flush/dump coolant out of my mech without some way of replacing it? Answer, You would not. Do you think that your mech can effectively cool at the same rate after losing 30% of its coolant? Answer, No. We already know that when you lose a heat sink in game your mech's cooling efficiency is reduced so why would we think that reducing the coolant that feeds those very same heat sinks can be reduced and not effect its cooling efficiency? Answer, You can't because it does effect it directly.

So my question to the Dev's is: Please tell me how this "coolant flush" is going to work with out having some kind of an extra coolant tank attached to the mech that would take up tonnage and space to replace the coolant I will be flushing out of my mech so I can continue to cool at the same rate??

[Syllogy]

It hasn't even been released yet, so you have no legitimate claim to call it "Broken."

Wait to actually use Coolant, and then explain why it's "broken".

Edited by Syllogy, 19 March 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[MrPenguin]

You seem like the kind of person who complains about games like skyrim where you can carry around dozens of weapons with out any of them showing...

[PurpleNinja]

Just like ECM is broken, SRM is broken and everything that kills me is broken.

[Stygian Steel]

i think this post is broken

[CutterWolf]

Syllogy, on 19 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

It hasn't even been released yet, so you have no legitimate claim to call it "Broken."

Wait to actually use Coolant, and then explain why it's "broken".

What? The concept it self is broken so "yes" I can legitimately claim its broken as I have proven

[Agent of Change]

Syllogy, on 19 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

It hasn't even been released yet, so you have no legitimate claim to call it "Broken."

Wait to actually use Coolant, and then explain why it's "broken".

He's gonna play one round without actually even equipping it assume the people who rolled him had it and repost this thread, solving nothing.

Stygian Steel, on 19 March 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

i think this post is broken

I can't help but agree.

[Bhan Zor]

Yawntastic!

[Lusankya]

It is pretty hard to call something broken when it hasn't even been released yet. Wait until it has been implemented and give it a month or 2 and see how it works out.

[VerusZetec]

This is a joke post, right?

...right?!

[CutterWolf]

I see not one of you can even post a response to disprove my point. Instead all you can do is post hate because you know I'm right. So I thank you for proving my point.

[Agent of Change]

Lusankya, on 19 March 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

It is pretty hard to call something broken when it hasn't even been released yet. Wait until it has been implemented and give it a month or 2 and see how it works out.

You ask too much sir.

I am already writing up a post about how the thing that PGI hasn't even announced yet is at the same time broken, OP, P2W, and useless. That's how we roll round here.

[Valleye]

Dumping the coolant would do nothing because it is already thermally charged. It has already removed it from the component that you want cooled.

What you would need to do is have a reservoir of airtemp (lower than operating temp) coolant that can be pumped into the system after the flush. This will rapidly take up the heat left in your components.

This would explain the ability to only have 1 or 2 flushes. Limited backup reservoir size.

Without a crit spot to disable the reservoir I hate the flush idea. Oh well.

[Xyroc]

CutterWolf, on 19 March 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

What? The concept it self is broken so "yes" I can legitimately claim its broken as I have proven

No you cannot its like someone writing up their theory and not doing any experiments and claiming its a fact.... just doesnt work. In fact thats exactly what you are doing. The Science community would never value your opinion ever.

Edited by Beliall, 19 March 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

ITT: autism

[Vasces Diablo]

Some morning I wake up and think "Today's going to be the day that someone doesn't try and point out that a game about giant walking fictional death robots doesn't line up with reality."

It usually isn't that kind of day.

[Agent of Change]

CutterWolf, on 19 March 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

I see not one of you can even post a response to disprove my point. Instead all you can do is post hate because you know I'm right. So I thank you for proving my point.

No one can reasonably do so, because you argument is not made on reasonable grounds. You made your argument in a vacuum and you challenge your audience to prove a negative, that sir, is weak tea.

You have no actual evidence of your claim just hypothetical's void of any practical application or testing. I could sit here and go "nu-uh" but that would be remiss of me as it is not a valid argument anymore than the argument I would be poo-pooing.

You may be right, You may be wrong, you simply have no standing to either make the argument yet or demand a fair response.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Lusankya, on 19 March 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

It is pretty hard to call something broken when it hasn't even been released yet. Wait until it has been implemented and give it a month or 2 and see how it works out.

Yep, Im sure PGI will realize how horribly unbalanced it is and nerf it like they did with ECM and SRMs... oh wait

[Lavi]

CutterWolf, on 19 March 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

...

[color=#959595]So knowing all of this why in the world would I ever flush/dump coolant out of my mech without some way of replacing it? Answer, You would not. Do you think that your mech can effectively cool at the same rate after losing 30% of its coolant? Answer, No. We already know that when you lose a heat sink in game your mech's cooling efficiency is reduced so why would we think that reducing the coolant that feeds those very same heat sinks can be reduced and not effect its cooling efficiency? Answer, You can't because it does effect it directly.[/color]

I don't think the "coolant flush" is as u imagine.

As I imagine (and makes sense in not having degraded dissipating capacity later on) is that the consumable coolant is in a reservoir.
You pick the button, an X quantity of heated coolant exists the coolant circuit, being replaced with X quantity of colder coolant.

IIRC, in canon you already had coolants consumables, sort of, but they were external to the mech, and if hit, it could explode (don't know how an inhert liquid could explode... but.... Stompy robots logic)

[Terror Teddy]

Could you PLEASE fix that wall of text. Jeesus.