24 replies to this topic

[Karenai]

First of all look at known issues.
100% A-Grade Bugs:

• Explosive weapons do not do proper splash damage to moving Mechs
  
• SRM/SSRM/LRM missile damage is shown at the End of Round as doing more damage than intended.

That beeing said. After finding SRM and SSRM doing way to much splash damage, but way to little leg damage PGI fixed the lag damage and wants to get rid of splash damage on April 2nd.






There was little to say about LRM and splash, so PGI did not comment them, but buffed their leg damage now and is intent to removing LRM splash damage, as well.

"Scop" started the idea of testing LRM splash. The problem beeing, that you cannot lock on mechs beyond 1 km by yourself.

The only thing to do was dumbfire them on a target. (dumbfire means shooting missiles without having a lock on, but targeting them to hit the enemy because he is in their flightpath)

The numbers shew a 6 m splash radius for LRM and considerable more damage while dumbfiring.

The post Jagermech Patch numbers show a 8 m splash radius, overall higher damage, still more damage due to dumbfire and more spread out damage, aka later armor penetration.

This suggests bigger aoe splash (though the 2 exta meters get very little damage, they are there) and more spread overall for lock on hits. Lock on hits are not that far away from dumbfire, suggesting missiles hitting less tight. (it takes more missiles to get trough armor, and mech drop more percent of their overall health before there is a breach)
This would mean way more spread and way less potential to core, the bigger damage numbers beeing due to more damage done before coring.

It would be consistant with what can be seen ingame. Standing mechs holding their ground way better then walking mechs. Standing ones get spread with damage all over the mech, while walking mechs get additional spread damage to key parts of the mech.

Now for the numbers:

Test were conducted with a Catapult C4 without Artemis IV in testing grounds on caustic.

Dumbfire Test Atlas Front on caustic (splash radius test)
one pass firing a LRM5 5 times on target and looking at integrity left.
______________________old numbers_____________Jagermech patch
5x_LRM_5_1009m_______________________________100% (zero hits)
5x_LRM_5_1008m________100%_(zero_hits)__________98%
5x_LRM_5_1007m________100%_(zero_hits)__________98%
5x_LRM_5_1006m_________97%____________________93%
5x_LRM_5_1005m_________90%____________________90%
5x_LRM_5_1004m_________89%____________________82%
5x_LRM_5_1003m_________86%____________________84%
5x_LRM_5_1002m_________84%____________________77%
5x_LRM_5_1001m_________86%____________________81%
5x_LRM_5_1000m_________85%____________________81%
5x_LRM_5_999m__________85%____________________81%
5x_LRM_5_750m__________92%____________________85%
5x_LRM_5_750_and_TAG___93%____________________85%

Lock on test Atlas front on caustic
one pass (shooting 10 times or untill armor breach)
______________1x__2x__3x___4x___5x__6x___7x___8x___9x__10x
oldLRM5: ____98%_97%_95%_94%_93%_92%_91%_89%_88%_87%
newLRM5:____97%_94%_91%_88%_85%_82%_79%_77%_74%_71%
oldLRM10:____97%_95%_93%_91%_88%_85%_82%_79%
newLRM10:___94%_88%_82%_77%_71%_65%_59%
oldLRM15:____95%_91%_87%_84%_81%
newLRM15:___91%_83%_75%_68%_60%
oldLRM20:____94%_89%_84%_80%
newLRM20:___89%_78%_66%_55%
oldLRM20TAG:_94%_88%_83%

Lock on test Atlas front caustic losing lock
one pass (shooting 10 times or untill armor breach)
______________1x__2x__3x___4x___5x__6x___7x___8x___9x__10x
oldLRM5:_____98%_97%_95%_94%_93%_92%_90%_89%_88%_86%
oldLRM10:____97%_95%_92%_90%_87%_85%_82%_80%
oldLRM15:____96%_91%_88%_83%_80%
oldLRM20:____95%_90%_86%_82%_76%
oldLRM20*:___94%_89%_85%_80%

Dumbfire 850m test on Atlas front caustic
______________1x__2x__3x___4x___5x__6x___7x___8x___9x__10x
oldLRM5:_____97%_94%_91%_89%_86%_83%_81%_78%
newLRM5:____96%_92%_88%_85%_81%_78%_74%_70%
oldLRM10:____94%_89%_84%_78%_73%
newLRM10:___93%_86%_78%_72%_65%
oldLRM15:____92%_83%_76%
newLRM15:___88%_78%_67%
oldLRM20:____88%_77%
newLRM20:___84%_70%_0%

Overall the spash is bigger, the damage is higher, but less concentrated. It takes about the same number of salvos to breach armor, but more percent of the mechs integrity. That means a mech with breaches after the patch is probably in a worse state then he would be with its first armor breach before the patch.

Testing grounds are bugged and the numbers produced there are no where near the real life battle numbers, but they show tendences.

Edited by Karenai, 19 March 2013 - 11:04 PM.

[Michael Costanza]

I think there's an issue with LRMs but you might want to proofread this.. I have no idea what you are saying and have to guess at what the percentages mean. What does a 100% (zero hits) 98% mean, etc?

[Inyc]

Michael Costanza, on 19 March 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

I think there's an issue with LRMs but you might want to proofread this.. I have no idea what you are saying and have to guess at what the percentages mean. What does a 100% (zero hits) 98% mean, etc?

100% obviously means the mech is still at 100%, so undamaged. This is ont eh farthest range shots. So you can see that after the patch Mechs get hit from further away than before. Most likely because the dumbfire splash hits the legs earlier than before.

Overall missiles seem to be doing 10 to 25% more damage at the least from these test. Which is bananas.

[Severus Baggins Kerensky]

Those numbers don't mean anything because good players will just take cover and have the LRM damage be 0. It's already bad we have ECM to nullify LRMs, everyone can easily go behind cover. LRM needs to have its speed increased to make it more competitive.

[TerebNeerg]

That explains the increased headshots. Yea, the damage is getting spread... to the cockpit (ouch).

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

TerebNeerg, on 19 March 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

That explains the increased headshots. Yea, the damage is getting spread... to the cockpit (ouch).

this is what happens when ppl QQ that the damage is hitting the CT too much. They spread it around lol

[Karenai]

TerebNeerg, on 19 March 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

That explains the increased headshots. Yea, the damage is getting spread... to the cockpit (ouch).

This is actually very much true, indeed. More spread means also more spread to the cockpit and with Jagermech cockpit beeing a little bit bigger then it should be you get headshots with LRM.

[TerebNeerg]

I'm not just talking about the Jagermech, me and my buddy were both headshot by missiles (and hit only by missiles) in our catapults tonight.

It's probably any mech with a cockpit positioned lower on the body.

Edited by TerebNeerg, 19 March 2013 - 11:18 PM.

[Severus Baggins Kerensky]

TerebNeerg, on 19 March 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

I'm not just talking about the Jagermech, me and my buddy were both headshot by missiles (and hit only by missiles) in our catapults tonight.

It's probably any mech with a cockpit positioned lower on the body.

Nah, it's only because you haven't been staying behind cover. Look, just don't get hit by LRMs, problem solved.

[FREDtheDEAD]

I noticed LRM damage seems buffed after this patch. Stalker boat suddenly getting 1000+ damage a match with minimum effort and excitement (heavily depends on ECM makeup of the match).

This boat is MUCH more dangerous than my brawler!

It probably shouldn't be.

[Texas Merc]

Severus Baggins Kerensky, on 19 March 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Nah, it's only because you haven't been staying behind cover. Look, just don't get hit by LRMs, problem solved.

splash damage is cumalitve based on the number of missiles fired (it isnt reduced its actually multiplied).

PGI is wrong YOU are wrong


Missiles are borked(all of them)

[Ralgas]

Xajorkith, on 19 March 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

I noticed LRM damage seems buffed after this patch. Stalker boat suddenly getting 1000+ damage a match with minimum effort and excitement (heavily depends on ECM makeup of the match).

This boat is MUCH more dangerous than my brawler!

It probably shouldn't be.

Only gotta wait 2 weeks, splash damage is taking a holiday. The buff today was some more random targeting (apparently causing hs problems, but its hard to tell how bad with all the jagger static) and a bugfix meaning mech legs take a correct splash dam (which unfortunately is bugged hence the holiday)

Edited by Ralgas, 19 March 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[Bunko]

Took a Trial Trebuchet to a Test Drop because it had 2 standard LRM15s:

Light killed in 1 volley
Medium killed in 2 volleys
Heavy killed in 3 volleys
Assault killed in 4 volleys

* These kills were caused by center torso damage as far as I can tell.

Sure they weren't moving, they were Trail mechs with less than max armor, but really?! You have mechs firing 3 times this in games! How is this right?

[Chavette]

Bunko, on 19 March 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Took a Trial Trebuchet to a Test Drop because it had 2 standard LRM15s:

Light killed in 1 volley
Medium killed in 2 volleys
Heavy killed in 3 volleys
Assault killed in 4 volleys

* These kills were caused by center torso damage as far as I can tell.

Sure they weren't moving, they were Trail mechs with less than max armor, but really?! You have mechs firing 3 times this in games! How is this right?

One more thing, nobody boats only 2*15s, they do 2*20, 4*15 or 2*15+2*20.

[FREDtheDEAD]

Severus Baggins Kerensky, on 19 March 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Nah, it's only because you haven't been staying behind cover. Look, just don't get hit by LRMs, problem solved.

It's not much fun hiding from lrm boats all the time (when there's no ECM cover), knowing it only takes a few seconds of exposure to cripple an unmanoeuvrable assault or heavy class mech when brawling.

[Thoummim]

Chavette, on 19 March 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

One more thing, nobody boats only 2*15s, they do 2*20, 4*15 or 2*15+2*20.

I boat 2x15, its more weight efficient than 2x20 at the cost of some damage but with a weapon that broken you don't care.

[Bhan Zor]

Severus Baggins Kerensky, on 19 March 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Those numbers don't mean anything because good players will just take cover and have the LRM damage be 0. It's already bad we have ECM to nullify LRMs, everyone can easily go behind cover. LRM needs to have its speed increased to make it more competitive.

I dont know where to begin after reading that nonsense. This is obviously not about taking cover or good and bad players but the damage LRM does as well as the apparent splash damage issue. He made it really easy for you to understand that if you'd just read beyond the title instead of going apeshit because you thought he wants to take away your toy.

And to say ECM nullifys LRM is a nab statement in itself: L2P use tag instead of relying on tab.

[Gaan Cathal]

Bhan Zor, on 19 March 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

I dont know where to begin after reading that nonsense. This is obviously not about taking cover or good and bad players but the damage LRM does as well as the apparent splash damage issue. He made it really easy for you to understand that if you'd just read beyond the title instead of going apeshit because you thought he wants to take away your toy.

And to say ECM nullifys LRM is a nab statement in itself: L2P use tag instead of relying on tab.

You sir, have been trolled.

[Voidcrafter]

Severus Baggins Kerensky, on 19 March 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Those numbers don't mean anything because good players will just take cover and have the LRM damage be 0. It's already bad we have ECM to nullify LRMs, everyone can easily go behind cover. LRM needs to have its speed increased to make it more competitive.

Yep, you're completely right!
All the players in this game are stupid and stay in the open, waving at the red targets!
Get out of your LRM boat, play ~10 matches and come back here to talk again.
I hope your ingame name is the same as the forum one. I really do.
Stop blaming the rest for being stupid, while you haven't moved your backsides to test if what they're saying is right or wrong.
Atleast you haven't tested it enough.

Xajorkith, on 19 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

It's not much fun hiding from lrm boats all the time (when there's no ECM cover), knowing it only takes a few seconds of exposure to cripple an unmanoeuvrable assault or heavy class mech when brawling.

That.
But I don't see how someone, who's trying to stay ~500m away from any kind of fighting, spamming shots with a weapon, that requires only "someone" (from the team) to hold it's target, can actually get what's the real MWO life in the jungle is all about.

[Karenai]

ECM and staying in or out of cover has nothing to do with the pure numbers. Pure numbers say aoe splash got a 2 m buff from 6 m to 8 m. Right before they remove splash.
That way those complaining about the upcoming LRM nerf will get shut down before they can even start.