120 replies to this topic

[Hex Pallett]

So I threw out a quick overview as soon as Jagermech came out. Unfortunately, thanks to the totally broken missile splash damage brought along with the patch, the impression was greatly off the rail (LRM headshot from the back - really??). Now since the bug is fixed and I have elite on all my Jagers, it is the time to bring out the full review for those who are still watching, hesitating to get their hands on one, if not all, of these beauties.

Jagermech is, without any doubt, the ultimate ballistic platform among all announced IS 'Mechs. At least a pair - and up to three pairs - of ballistic hardpoints on every single variant, in the arms that are high above shoulder level, making them ideal for shooting from cover (unlike a certain Cataphract 4x, which has arm guns below waist and slow like a limp bulldozer). Also, as everyone should have noticed, there're are no lower-arms in Jagermechs.

Twin-AC20. Yeeeeeeah.

And if you ask me, Jagermech is the best looking 'Mech EVER.

But, enough of the merits, here are the drawbacks. Stock Jagermechs are extremely under-armored, and entirely impractical to bring into combat. To bring up the armor value during the modification, thanks to those heavy ballistics, chance is you're gonna load up an XL engine, which brings up the next point: Jagermechs are very vulnerable. The side torsos on a Jagermech are super easy to hit - in fact the upper torso of a Jagermech is basically equally divided into three sections. Not mentioning the massive flat surface on the back waiting to be stabbed, and its rather huge cockpit, like, Catapult-huge.

Also, even with XL engines it still can be tricky for a 65-toner to carry multiple ballistics, so use them conservatively.

Time to get to the builds. Again, these are my personal preference based on my style of 'Mech building: simple, steady, practical and effective. Alternative builds will be mentioned, but not necessarily recommended.

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JM6-A

XL265, 12DHS, Endo, 4xLRM5(3t), 2xAC5(4t), 1xML, TAG, AMS

(I didn't even think about building it all-missile without any ballistic. We already have Catapult C4 that can do that on the fly - JJ - and Catapults are very commonly used. What's the point? It's not like you get a ballistic+missile chassis very often)

Took me longest to experiment on 6A, and this is the best result possible. It may not have the highest DPS (both 2xAC2 and 2xUAC5 can do better), but the rhythm of these weaponry is harmony in its pure form. AC5 has an 1.7s cooldown and LRM5 is 3.25, thus you can basically fire a wave of LRM5s every two shots from the AC5s, if there's an easy target in sight. With theses ammo loaded, you get 27 shots of 4xLRM5 and 60 shots of twin-AC5. Trust me, you don't wanna ignore LRM5 rapid-fire.

Plus an MLas in there. Just cause.

Soften them up with your LRM and strike precisely with your main guns. For long-range support, this build has it all.

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JM6-DD

XL255, 10DHS(engine), Endo, 2xAC20(6t), 2xSL, AMS

(I'm using a slightly smaller engine, on once hand because I happen to have one in stock, o the other hand since most ammo are stored in the legs, it makes sense to give this brawler a bit more protection against ammo explosion)

Because why not.

And because there's no way you can utilize the six ballistic hardpoints. No, 6xAC2 glass turret doesn't count.

I really don't think there's a need to further explain how effective 2xAC20 is. It's not like we haven't seen enough of those on K2. And here, we have a faster, more convenient (shoulder-cannon!), if slightly less survivable version that can also shoot up/down slope. And guess what? Take off the AMS and you can easily get a pair of Gauss in there.

Yeeeeeeeah.

=====================================================================================

JM6-S

XL265, 14DHS, Endo, 4xAC2(5t), 4xSL, AMS

(in case you didn't notice, most DD and S loadouts are interchangeable)

The obvious. My favorite variant. Makes every 4X Cataphract burn in jealousy, thanks to the higher weapon mount and better speed. The 4xAC2 loadout was proven, at least in my experience, to be a successful long-range tank-buster. It's horrendous DPS would chew through an Assault's CT front in the matter of seconds, given that you have a good aim. It also works nicely on LRM boats: with this kind of speed you can easily deal a lot of damage before those missiles get close, and tow yourself in cover. The only concern is the ammo count, which is somewhat low, so place your shots carefully.

I'd say no to quad-AC5 loadout, which is way too heavy and better suited for CTF-4X. For the same reason 4xUAC5 is not to be concerned.

Interesting though, there are plenty of 3xUAC5 builds out there that appear to be rather successful. On paper, 4xAC2 gets better damage output over single-shotted 3xUAC5, but they certainly deals massive damage if double-fired, given that they don't jam. I've seen my own Jager's front CT melted by 3xUAC5 in the blink of an eye; I've hunted down Jagers carrying the same loadout, watching their UACs jam twice. It is up to you whether you would like to place the bet.

=====================================================================================

Jagermechs soon became my favourite chassis, mostly because you get the chance to actually shoot people. With guns. Lots of guns. With possible the exception of 6A that still gives you plenty of guns. What's the point of an FPS, if you don't get the chance to shoot people/deer/zombie/hundred-ton machine with guns?

Also, there should be a Hero variant coming down the way. Which means, guess what? More guns.

GUNS.

Edited by Helmstif, 28 March 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

And now it's complete until a hero variant comes out.

[fl4sh222]

Nice work again Helmstif. Like the ultimate Hunchback guide it helped me a lot. I tried your JM6-A build and it was effective when I could manage to keep my distance. But in conquest PUG mode it was nearly impossible to do that all the time. Ok, I really like to brawl (I´m such an unpatient player) and want to be effective in long and close range. So I had to adjust that Mech to my playstyle and my bad laser aiming. And with the XL295 engine of my 3L I came up with that JM6-A.
Yeah, I know I shouldn´t brawl with an XL and that the Cataphract or Catapult are much better choices compared to an Jägermech and the loadout is suboptimal too....but I play for fun and I like it.

Edited by fl4sh222, 26 March 2013 - 12:09 AM.

[Hex Pallett]

fl4sh222, on 26 March 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

Nice work again Helmstif. Like the ultimate Hunchback guide it helped me a lot. I tried your JM6-A build and it was effective when I could manage to keep my distance. But in conquest PUG mode it was nearly impossible to do that all the time. Ok, I really like to brawl (I´m such an unpatient player) and want to be effective in long and close range. So I had to adjust that Mech to my playstyle and my bad laser aiming. And with the XL295 engine of my 3L I came up with that JM6-A.
Yeah, I know I shouldn´t brawl with an XL and that the Cataphract or Catapult are much better choices compared to an Jägermech and the loadout is suboptimal too....but I play for fun and I like it.

"fixed" a few things for ya

[Jam the Bam]

Helmstif, on 26 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

"fixed" a few things for ya

Thats the same loadout I use on my 6A, love it, though i do use the standard engine at the expense of the medium lasers. and it also helps if you take SSRM ammo Helmstif....

But it is lot of fun.

[Raso]

There actually is a use for the 6 ballistic slots on the DD, or rather, a use for the 3 slots per arm.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b1165b17cafb750

I'm still saving up for my DD, mind you, but I have a friend who's been using it to great effect. It also works with the AC20 which frees up a ton for ammo.


Now this here is my current set up.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8bca857bd6c6961

The point of this design is to be a mid range damage dealer with survivability in mind. You want to use cover to take shots at the enemy with your AC10s while protecting your nether regions from retaliation. The lasers are for close in defense and the cluster of 4 small lasers will eat lights for breakfast.

I change up between the small lasers with medium lasers periodically and I'm still not sure if I'm more partial to the close range DPS and redundancy of the small lasers or the added reach of the medium lasers. The AC10s might not have the same punch as the AC20s but they have superior range, bullet speed and ammo stores all of which I find invaluable benefits over the AC20. When pared up along side some medium lasers the AC10 strips armor like nothing else.

[charov]

XL on the jag'mech? No way, it's one of the easiest to kill, thanks to its huge side torso. Stay with the standard, it is the best way to improve its survival rate.

[Raso]

red devil2, on 26 March 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

XL on the jag'mech? No way, it's one of the easiest to kill, thanks to its huge side torso. Stay with the standard, it is the best way to improve its survival rate.

Couldn't agree more. It sort of works on long range support builds but that's the only time I'd really suggest it. When you can keep your vulnerable torso behind cover and attack from range it's a calculated risk to use an XL to bring some heavy long range fire solutions but on a close to mid range unit it's a death sentence. My AC10 Jager eats AC10 Jagers for breakfast because all I have to do is chew away at their side torso from range!

[Royalewithcheese]

As far as I can tell, running a STD on the Jagermech seems to buy you about 2-3 seconds. It's not like an Atlas where half of your robot is still an effective combatant.

[Hex Pallett]

Royalewithcheese, on 26 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

As far as I can tell, running a STD on the Jagermech seems to buy you about 2-3 seconds. It's not like an Atlas where half of your robot is still an effective combatant.

This.

Also, where's the fun in driving a slow-arse bulldozer?

[El Death Smurf]

ill swear, live, and die by this brawler A model
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2b4dac5606adc3c

if you can set asside symetry, the jagermech can do some unique heavy builds, and this doesnt make a mish mosh of balistics, but still takes advanage of the heat efficent balistic weapon(s)

SRMs, even in the current nerfed form, can dish out lots of damage, and get into the internals of a mech quickly. that's where the lb10x comes in. if you haven't realized, it completey rocks the internals of a mech at close ranges. i have 2 1 shot kills with this guy, where I (and i alone) hit someone and rip open a side torso, and then let a single lb10x round into their side and bring down their engine with a 1-2 punch. i have also 2 shot an atlas that appearntly had ammo in his left torso, becaus he died shortly after i ripped off his left tosos, and had an ac20 in the RT, so no XL engine.

it hasen't scored less than 300pts of damage yet, and is fast enough for my taste, and with a standard 250 no less. the standard engine does make for a harder kill, and even when cut in 1/2 either the left side or right side of this mech can still finish what it started.

sure it has it's weak points, but it's a fun mech to pilot, and i find it runs better than the ac40 build since it doesn't rely on an XL engine to close the distance on enemy mechs, and has much more capable heat management since you can shoot the lb10x and M laser and let the missles cool off, but 2ac20 have no choice but to either shoot and over heat, or not shoot.

Edited by El Death Smurf, 26 March 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Praehotec8]

Here is my current loadout for my JM6-A: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2e6ac2898647467

I enjoy it and find it's reasonable fire support, and can do okay up close, but it's definitely squishier than my favored catapults. I'm not sure that I would last much longer with a STD engine though, as I often just get cored in up-close combat. I typically do about 300+ damage per match. Any suggestions to it would be welcome, although the MPLs vs. MLs is a personal choice based on aesthetics and ease of use (I use a joystick so rapid tracking is difficult...I do much better with leading and fire-forget mechanics).

[BigTrak]

Nearly got enough cbills for my first Jager and like the A builds best for my playstyle, but noticed the DD comes with the XL260 at a discount from buying it separately at 4.2mill+. Would I be better off getting the DD and then, cbills permitting, transfer the XL into the A & S variants as I work on mastering them?
Cheers,

Edited by BigTrak, 26 March 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

BigTrak, on 26 March 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Nearly got enough cbills for my first Jager and like the A builds best for my playstyle, but noticed the DD comes with the XL260 at a discount from buying it separately at 4.2mill+. Would I be better off getting the DD and then, cbills permitting, transfer the XL into the A & S variants as I work on mastering them?
Cheers,

The thing is, XL265 engine weights exactly the same as XL260 but gives you a little more speed.

But transferring engine is obviously the more economic choice.

[BigTrak]

Thanks Helmstif, good to know. I'm too impatient to try the jag to save up for the 265, but will defo bear than it mind for future builds.

Excellent work on the build guides btw, used your HBK guide extensively, keep up the great work!

[Bhan Zor]

Royalewithcheese, on 26 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

As far as I can tell, running a STD on the Jagermech seems to buy you about 2-3 seconds. It's not like an Atlas where half of your robot is still an effective combatant.

Naw, more like it buys your 1-2 kills more because you live longer. XL worked alright before everybody knew where to hit you. When I plug in my XL for some insane ballistic loadouts, I get too often insta-killed by PPC boats or damaged so badly by any Gauss/AC20 flavor that the next stiff breeze will make my XL explode. And that is when I am reminded that STD engines give you more fun per ton.

[charov]

Royalewithcheese, on 26 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

As far as I can tell, running a STD on the Jagermech seems to buy you about 2-3 seconds. It's not like an Atlas where half of your robot is still an effective combatant.

Absolutely not. You can protect your center torso very effectively with this mech if you are smart enough to turn it after you have fired. It's simple: face your target, fire, turn your torso to a side, let your target hit your side, face it again, fire, etc.

I see very few people doing this, but it works very, very well. Just try.
My KDR was 1.40 with the xl and now is 1.65, after only 8 matches played with it: more survivability → more time alive → more kills!
This is my build for the Jag'mech Alpha: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...268f68cb5cb634d

Important: you need Speed Tweak with the standard engine.

[Royalewithcheese]

red devil2, on 27 March 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

Absolutely not. You can protect your center torso very effectively with this mech if you are smart enough to turn it after you have fired. It's simple: face your target, fire, turn your torso to a side, let your target hit your side, face it again, fire, etc.

I see very few people doing this, but it works very, very well. Just try.
My KDR was 1.40 with the xl and now is 1.65, after only 8 matches played with it: more survivability → more time alive → more kills!
This is my build for the Jag'mech Alpha: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...268f68cb5cb634d

Important: you need Speed Tweak with the standard engine.

You can keep an XL mech alive with torso rolling longer, too. Good tactic in general.

[TubThumper17315]

This is my current S build - JM6-S

Edited by TubThumper17315, 27 March 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[t0asty42]

I have all three Jagermechs and this is the build I generally use. It fits on all three variants!

JM6 Universal

In reality, I actually run with a XL260 since the JM6-DD came with one and I've been swapping it in and out of the other variants. Ideally, you'd want to use the XL265 instead since it weighs the same. If you want more speed, ripping out the AMS/Ammo gives you enough tonnage to equip an XL285.

I've had great success with this build. The regular AC/5 generates negligible heat and you can continue to fire them without risk when your heat builds up. (In fact, you will cool down over time even if you don't stop firing the AC/5.) Both it and the large lasers have rather good reach with both doing full damage even at 450m out. You also remain a threat even if you somehow manage use up all your AC/5 ammo.

This is not a brawler build so you don't want to stand in the open or duel with a brawler if you can help it. If you do get into a brawl, try staggering your AC/5 shots to maximize cockpit shake and stop firing your large lasers when your heat gets high. I generally keep each AC/5 on two different weapon groups and the large lasers on a third. It makes it easy to take pot shots when peeking over hills or around corners without wasting ammo.

This is the order I got the three variants and some stats. The JM6-DD stats are lower since I experimented with 6x machine guns for too long... (if only that was a viable build...)

Mech	W/L	Ratio  K/D   Ratio  Damage
JM6-DD  34/27  1.26   40/35  1.14   15,058
JM6-S   27/26  1.04   57/32  1.78   17,941
JM6-A   16/8   2.00   25/13  1.92   6,693

I also like this build on my JM6-S. It's mostly the same, but got enough alpha strike power to headshot a mech at close range. Also, you can fire both AC/5s and both small lasers without building up heat! (Actually that's not quite true since weapons seem to build up heat and generate more heat per shot as you fire them continuously.)