433 replies to this topic

[Hayashi]

Solis Obscuri, on 20 March 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Ok, so doing some crunching from my weapons stats... I was using SRM-4s on my Jenner last patch, and over 9 matches I hit with 345 missiles for 778 damage - or 2.25 damage per missile. Looks a little low.

Last night I ran 16 matches with SRM-6s (I had also run 2 matches with them last week), and overall I hit with 523 missiles for 1863 damage - or 3.56 damage per missile. That's definitely coming in high!

Likewise, I ran 16 matches with LRM-15s last night, and 2 last patch - overall I hit with 1865 missiles for 4328 damage, or 2.32 damage per missile, again, that looks like it's coming in higher than it should.

As a control, two weeks ago I used an LRM-5s in two matches, and hit with 45 missiles... for just 42 damage, or 0.93 damage per missile.

So if I can trust the data is recording correctly (my MG damage is coming in at 0.037 per bullet, so it seems like it's recording fairly close to listed values), then missiles are definitely hitting harder than they should (about 150% of listed damage)... and they were possibly hitting below listed damage values last patch.

Of course, the really depressing statistic is that I only was able to make time for 27 matches over the course of the last two weeks...

You could have been shooting entirely different targets during playtesting. The borked nature of splash damage at present means different targets take different damage from the same missiles.

For instance, Atlases take about 2.3 damage per missile from LRMs, and Commandos take 16, while Centurions seem to be taking about 1.6, as an estimation from Amaris' test values.

Edited by Hayashi, 20 March 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Chemie, on 20 March 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Obviously you were not in early CB. You could not play Atlas because the head hitbox was THE WHOLE HEAD.

What relevancy do hitboxes that were phased out in early closed beta have to a discussion of missile performance in the current patch?

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

CrushLibs, on 20 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Simple fixes from a gamers point of view.

1. ECM should not stack , ECM should only delay locks , ECM should mask minimap outside the 180m bubble but not inside.

2. BAP should offset #1 locking delay and reduce minimap blindness to 500m , increase target gathering etc etc

3. Tag should paint a target and enable locks under ECM

4. Fix the armor damage multi on legs

5. Fix splash damage and LRMs should target Tag locations or middle of mech not head and legs

6. put DHS values to 1.5x maybe even 1.7x

7. reduce FF armor to a more reasonable critical space like 6 or 9. Saving 1/2 ton to 2 tons is chicken feed to loosing all those crits.

8. Tag weight should be 1/2 ton , Narc should be 1-2 tons and should stick to a target for 20secs or until the mech rec'v 50 dmg or more. (ie the narc is destroyed)

I could go on but those changes IMO are logical and needed

**crosses fingers** please work hotfix please

Falling into deaf ears and blind eyes ... sorry

[QuantumButler]

What this fiasco does is serve to, once again, bring one of PGI's most worrying practices into the limelight.

Namely, they just don't see to playtest patches with major gameplay changes at all beyond "will this compile? Okay, ship it out!".

These LRM/SRM issues should have been completely trivial for any playtester with even half a brain to notice within 30 mins to an hour of gameplay, and yet they decided to push the patch without fixing these issues anyway, giving us three very alarming possibilities.

#1: They don't playtest their patches at all, or if they do it's a 5 miniute "does this immedately crash the game? No? DONE!" look, and they don't even finish a single match.

#2: They do proper playtesting, but they ignore the playtester feedback/just don't care, and push it live anyway.

#3: The playtesters didn't notice anything wrong at all.

All of these are equally disturbing.

Edited by QuantumButler, 20 March 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

SRM need to be fixed, they are the real problem. Not the LRM's.

[jay35]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 March 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

SRM need to be fixed, they are the real problem. Not the LRM's.

No.... no. LRMs are distinctly the biggest problem from this bug. SRMs are only a problem within 200m and assuming you stand still enough for the person to hit you with them.

[Mazzyplz]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 March 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

SRM need to be fixed, they are the real problem. Not the LRM's.

LOL

[Solis Obscuri]

Tarman, on 20 March 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

"many space-gophers died across the hills of many planets."

Space gophers must bleed!

Hayashi, on 20 March 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

You could have been shooting entirely different targets during playtesting. The borked nature of splash damage at present means different targets take different damage from the same missiles.

For instance, Atlases take about 2.3 damage per missile from LRMs, and Commandos take 16, while Centurions seem to be taking about 1.6, as an estimation from Amaris' test values.

Interesting... hadn't tried testing that.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

Tarman, on 20 March 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Translation for those who don't speak 18ptBoldCaps:

"I could not use LRMs before this patch with any degree of success, though many space-gophers died across the hills of many planets. Now that LRMs are using an eight-to-ten metre splash radius due to an unforeseen bug I can finally damage things that are not terrain features. Please do not remove my only method of playing this game for I cannot use any other weapon."

For those who are simple minded and do not know how to play without making LRM useless, is that now you need to use strategy instead of running around like a 5 year old going pew pew pew with you lasers and using AIMBOTS to cheat because you simply no skill in ANY games. Please go play angry birds where your talents are much better suited.

[Zeus X]

Bryan Ekman, on 20 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

We are currently assessing the increase in LRM/SSRM/SRM damage currently on the live production servers. Expect an official response later today. A hot fix is likely this week.

UPDATE: We will be pushing through a hot fix tomorrow at 10am PDT. Changes will be posted tomorrow.

So a hotfix with an explanation will be tomorrow.

[QuantumButler]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 March 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

For those who are simple minded and do not know how to play without making LRM useless, is that now you need to use strategy instead of running around like a 5 year old going pew pew pew with you lasers and using AIMBOTS to cheat because you simply no skill in ANY games. Please go play angry birds where your talents are much better suited.

Because guided missiles need so much more skill.

[Calamus]

Bryan Ekman, on 20 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

UPDATE: We will be pushing through a hot fix tomorrow at 10am PDT. Changes will be posted tomorrow.

Is this because my team obliterated Omid and his team in a drop today using 5 LRM boats, an ECM/Tag Spider scout, and a 2 "other mechs"?

[Hayashi]

QuantumButler, on 20 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Because guided missiles need so much more skill.

It certainly takes a certain amount of skill to miss with a guided missile.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Hayashi, on 20 March 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

You could have been shooting entirely different targets during playtesting. The borked nature of splash damage at present means different targets take different damage from the same missiles.

For instance, Atlases take about 2.3 damage per missile from LRMs, and Commandos take 16, while Centurions seem to be taking about 1.6, as an estimation from Amaris' test values.

so aim for the centurions O.o

[Acid Phase]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 March 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

For those who are simple minded and do not know how to play without making LRM useless, is that now you need to use strategy instead of running around like a 5 year old going pew pew pew with you lasers and using AIMBOTS to cheat because you simply no skill in ANY games. Please go play angry birds where your talents are much better suited.

Here's to you defending the LRMs.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

QuantumButler, on 20 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Because guided missiles need so much more skill.

Actually, they do because you have to select targets that have a good chance of actually being hit. Otherwise, you will just hit the side of buildings, bridges, mountains, hills, and while wasting your ammo.. Unlike other weapon systems, you have to carefully target exposed mechs, or just keep the opponents pinned while your team flanks them.

its called tactics and strategy

[QuantumButler]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 March 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Actually, they do because you have to select targets that have a good chance of actually being hit. Otherwise, you will just hit the side of buildings, bridges, mountains, hills, and while wasting your ammo.. Unlike other weapon systems, you have to carefully target exposed mechs, or just keep the opponents pinned while your team flanks them.

its called tactics and strategy

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

[Tarman]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 March 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

For those who are simple minded and do not know how to play without making LRM useless, is that now you need to use strategy instead of running around like a 5 year old going pew pew pew with you lasers and using AIMBOTS to cheat because you simply no skill in ANY games. Please go play angry birds where your talents are much better suited.

You're cute, I like you.

Anyone who could actually pilot before this patch was quite successful at killing people with LRM-based weaponry. They used good positioning, some teamwork, knowledge of range and transverse velocity of targets, and timing. It wasn't rocket science. It was missile art.

Now that it has a bugged splash radius that entirely encompasses a mech's hitboxes and much of the surrounding area, it requires negative skill. You don't even have to hit the mech, you can just shoot the ground relatively near it and get headshots on Atlai. This splash eats Commandos in single volleys till there's nothing left but smoke. Great if this were a 250mm artillery company barrage simulator. Less so for a Mechwarrior game.

I understand that returning the weapon to a skill-based delivery may impact your ability to rack up nearly three thousand points of damage in a single match while parking at over nine hundred metres, but stats are due for another wipe anyway, iirc.

[Mazzyplz]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 March 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Actually, they do because you have to select targets that have a good chance of actually being hit. Otherwise, you will just hit the side of buildings, bridges, mountains, hills, and while wasting your ammo.. Unlike other weapon systems, you have to carefully target exposed mechs, or just keep the opponents pinned while your team flanks them.

its called tactics and strategy

thankfully each ton of LRM ammo gives you 180 missiles to spam like a truly braindead person

[Solis Obscuri]

jay35, on 20 March 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

No.... no. LRMs are distinctly the biggest problem from this bug. SRMs are only a problem within 200m and assuming you stand still enough for the person to hit you with them.

No one uses SRMs at 200m, even if you do hit something most of the missiles go wide from the spread. Which is why almost every fight between the introduction of ECM and the PIC buff (and ginormous alpine map) devolved into a brawl at about 60m, where any crosseyed ******* couldn't miss your nose with an SRM alpha if he tried.

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 20 March 2013 - 09:00 PM.