673 replies to this topic

[3Ravens]

I agree theat before the hotfix LRMs were too powerful. I also agree the splash and tendency to target a single mech slot are a problem (I'd like to see minimized splash and more of a shotgun pattern to the hits like you get with SRMs).

That said my personal opinion is that post-patch LRMs are a little underpowered. I don't really care whether its TT consistent now or not. That's not the issue. The issue is that pretty much each mech line has its lurm-boat variant. And suddenly. those variants start underperforming, that's bad for the game.

I'd like to see 2 things done - 1) minimize splash from the missles 2) increase the spread on the missle swarm so it hits all over the target.

For 2 I could see a progression where a bare LRM spread is wide enough for some of the missles to acctually plow into the ground around a target. With artemis you'd get a spread tightened enough to make all/vast majority of it hit but still spread out and finally tag+artemis would be able to tighted the spread enough for only 2-3 components to be affected (e.g. arm+side torso+center torso).

However, I also believe the damage should be upped, but slightly - 10 maybe 15% should be enough.

[iminbagdad]

I'll say it again,

Increase missile flight speed. Right now the damage would be a lot better if missiles actually hit more. They are too easy to dodge, lights can pretty much outrun them, I mean seriously are they propeller driven?

Give us a hotfix, Increase flight speed by 25% then let us try. I use an ALMR 20 C1 and damage wise feel I'm where i should be but I miss or get outrun way too much.

[Thoummim]

Since TT seem to be the bible for most player I will remind you that :
In TT 4lrm15 DO NOT os a light like it did in mwo despite the double armor.
(Just tried in mwt [TT carbon copy] a commando needed 8hit of lrm15 before dying)

Lrm were clearly way overpowered the only thing that "balanced" them was the fact that they are easy to avoid.

Do lrm need to do more damage ? No definitely no. You were spoiled that time is over move on.
Do lrm need to hit more ? Yes, they at least need a speed increase like suggested before.

Edited by Thoummim, 24 March 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[Karenai]

Thoummim, on 24 March 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Since TT seem to be the bible for most player I will remind you that :

In TT 4lrm15 DO NOT os a light like it did in mwo despite the double armor.

(Just tried in mwt [TT carbon copy] a commando needed 8hit of lrm15 before dying)


Lrm were clearly way overpowered the only thing that "balanced" them was the fact that they are easy to avoid.


Do lrm need to do more damage ? No definitely no. You were spoiled that time is over move on.

Do lrm need to hit more ? Yes, they at least need a speed increase like suggested before.

Since everyone is coming back to the TT. 10 sec rounds. In MWO you can get a burst of 12 shots from an UAC in that time if you are lucky, or 3 AC/20 shots, while after you had to lock on, your first LRM salvo starts to land in that time.

If we had 10sec rounds, then maybe LRM would be ok. One LRM salvo, one AC/20 hit, two UAC hits, with a chance to jam.

But we do not have 10sec rounds, only LRM feel like 10sec rounds because you have to lock on first and then wait for seconds untill your load hits something.

What make them feel like they would be good at all, is that gatling gun like buildup. If you stand in the open even after 10sec of beeing targeted, those LRM will keep coming once every 5 sec.

Anyone saying that LRM are ok right now is plainly biased. People stopped to use ECM and AMS, that says the most about the state of LRM. Tell me how you stand your ground against some ECM equipped mechs, especially those scouts running around you.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Quote

(Just tried in mwt [TT carbon copy] a commando needed 8hit of lrm15 before dying)

MWT? Tactics? Its TT true?

[Marcus Tanner]

TOGSolid, on 23 March 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Go ahead and ask someone who thinks splash is a good idea why they think it's a good idea. Go on, I dare you. You'll be trapped in a circular logic loop that will melt your brain.

The fix for all of this is easy. Set the missiles to TT values, remove splash damage, call it a day. If you want to get fancy, then make streaks require a relock after every volley. Tadaa, done.

Please, do pay attention.

They were clear about what happened when they tried that.

No, LRMs and Streaks aren't the same thing in terms of programming. They *can* and *intend to* fix it, but it's not copy and paste.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 24 March 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

MWT? Tactics? Its TT true?

Well, they mess around a lot with construction and how you buy components, but the rules are pretty much a straight port of TT.

I stopped considering it after I saw how ugly it is. Battletech can be hard on the eyes, but MWT is *painful*.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Marcus Tanner, on 24 March 2013 - 03:17 AM, said:

Well, they mess around a lot with construction and how you buy components, but the rules are pretty much a straight port of TT.

I stopped considering it after I saw how ugly it is. Battletech can be hard on the eyes, but MWT is *painful*.

I hadnt considered spending any money on any founders package after this one so Ill wait till OB before I even look at that game.

[MangoBogadog]

Something is wrong with streaks always hitting CT, even when Im facing completely away from the incoming streak while piloting a Jenner they constantly hit front center torso.

[J0anna]

Simply playing by feel, missiles now feel a bit underpowered. The fear of blundering into an LRM20 barrage simply isn't there. I know people are saying that missiles are now like TT, but our armor is doubled, thus missiles feel much weaker than TT. Having played many, many TT games, missiles are not playing like TT.

The previous level was way too much, no question about that. But further fine tuning is necessary atm. Whether the solution is to leave the damage as is and go back to the larger splash, or leave the splash and up the damage slightly, I'm not sure. I think by changing both at once, you made it a bit too hard to judge which had the greater effect.

[Dhread Danite]

With the missle nerf snipers can now have no fear. I believe that most buildouts will now be concentrated on ballistic and laser. Dumbfire will become irrelavant as if you are not dead on there will be no damage.
I fired 540 lrm missles and did 128 damage-the most if you multiply it out would be max 378. If you lose target lock I dont think you wll do ANY damage since splash is not there anymore.
I checked my damage output on my mechs my treb went from 70 to 39 and my atlas having 3 lrm10's dropped to 51. One time I fired 240 missles before the lights took me out and did a whopping 5 damage mostlly because -target lock-fire -lose target lock-no damage.
With the OP of ECM and this nerf missles have mostly become irrelevent. An ECM light running around the missle boats will cause ALL missle locks to fail and if there is a covering ECM on the enemy mechs there is NO chance of a missle lock or hit. Since dmbfire wont work the missle boats are mostly now free targets.
If this nerf is a response to the crys of the sniper mechs then shame on you.

[CallMeGunny]

So I don't know if a ninja patch was snuck in or what, but compared to my previous post since hotifx, a lot has changed.

I'm no longer being drilled in my CT by every missiles that does hit, and I stroll past missiles without a care less often.

Some missiles still just fly way over my head for no obvious reason, but maybe they didn't engage a full lock. And when I do get hit, it's spreading over my armor now instead of sniping me CT: So overall I like it.

TBH: I think a slight damage increase, but slight projectile speed decrease would be a good sweetspot from where we are. Make getting hit more punishing, to serve as the long range suppression LRM's excel at, but make them easier to dodge for aware pilots or pilots who stay near cover for just that reason.

[arghmace]

CallMeGunny, on 24 March 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

I think a slight damage increase, but slight projectile speed decrease would be a good sweetspot from where we are. Make getting hit more punishing, to serve as the long range suppression LRM's excel at, but make them easier to dodge for aware pilots or pilots who stay near cover for just that reason.

Noooo! 100 meters per second is ridiculously slow as it is. It takes 10 seconds for the missiles to connect at maximum range. In that time the enemy mech is most certainly in cover already. Not that the ability to use cover is the main problem. What vexes me is the fact that LRM's can be evaded out in the open even by slow mechs. PGI really needs to make them hit better. Then low damage is ok.

[Ranzear]

Dhread Danite, on 24 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

With the missle nerf snipers can now have no fear.

I had nothing to fear anyway, I was hitting them from 900m+!

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

LRMs drop from 1.8 damage per missile to 0.7 damage per missile.
SRMs drop from 2.5 damage per missile to 1.5 damage per missile.

DO NOT HIT REPLY TO FREAKOUT YET!


It is at these levels that missile combat falls back to a level that we AND the community felt was right for a long period of time before the badness appeared. I'm going to ask you to help us test these values by FEEL. Not by playing SpreadsheetWarrior.

Funny, as many Missile threads as I have responded in, I don't remember reading a single post from The Community saying missiles needed this hard of a damage Nerf. Are you reading the same posts I am?

And for the record, those "spreadsheet warriors" have found the mistakes you are now addressing. I personally play by feel more than crunch the numbers, but I don't dismiss their importance.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 24 March 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Strucker]

So many players got away with rolling nothing but missiles for so long that most of them don't know how to fit a laser or ballistic, let alone aim it. This results in a massive QQ from players unwilling to accept that their ez-mode is gone and that they may actually have to learn how to play the game different when the situation arises.

The game is now fields a much broader range of playable mechs and builds.

This hotfix has done something amazing, it has actually got me to start playing the game again with my friends.

+1 to PGI for doing so much with such a small patch.

[Joseph Mallan]

Strucker I am not questioning the need to adjust Missiles, but this qualifies as knee jerk if I have ever seen such a thing. Small steps.

[hercules1981]

After playing for a few days with the latest #s from pgi for missiles I think they r under powered.i felt they where a bit over powered before the whole missle bug happened.I would like to see the damage for Srms and LRMS brought back to the damage they inflicted before this whole mighty Missle patch. Then tune it back just bit from that. Whatever those values would be I have no idea but that's what I would like to see. So for example the srm6 did 15 damage b4 I would like to c it at about 11ish to 12ish now and going forward.i have friends in group play that ran lots of Srms and I to believe it was an easy button for kills, but then again I don't want to c this game turn into lazierwarrior either! Little bit more power to missiles would b fine or I suppose making the ammo per ton larger and recycle time a bit less would b a good fine tune as well. I will say this for certain, keep steaks where they r now. Easy to use and weak, adjust Srms damage separate from streaks.

Edited by hercules1981, 24 March 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Tesunie]

After playing with LRMs, here is my opinions,thoughts and feeling on them:
- I like the sounds of the reduced damage. They really where feeling a little too strong before.
- At this damage scale, I could see them moving faster now, and I think that would feel nicer.
- LRMs now feel a little too weak. Maybe a small boost to them and I think they'd be perfect. And when I mean small, I mean a tiny boost.

My largest impression on LRMs came from a fight with and Awesome while I was in my Dragon. My Dragon has 10 LRMs in it. My engagement with the Awesome went like this, lock, shoot, shoot,shoot. Awesome didn't even try for cover and was standing in the open (shooting at my withdrawing Dragon). I pumped at least 6 volleys into him, probably closer to 10, and all I managed to do was make his armor yellow. Sporadic PPC and LBXAC10 fire included as well.
The point of my tale is, yes missiles are not suppose to be instant killers and should be best at suppression and support. It's nice to see them not killing someone in a couple hits. However, they shouldn't be able to just be ignored either. I like the reduced damage (and I'm an LRM user myself) and its feeling better, but right now it's feeling a little too underpowered to the point that people are ignoring them. Maybe bringing them to a full 1 point of damage or there abouts? And yes, I know including splash to at least one component it typically adds up to one damage, but it still feels a little too weak at the moment. Very close to ideal though.

To end with, love this even if it is temporary. Just a little more tweaking and I think you have it. Great job!

[Dirus Nigh]

After playing with LRMs and getting hit by LRMs for the past few days I have to say that you lowered the damage to much.

Keep in mind that I am comparing how the missiles worked before last Tuesdays patch broke them.

When I use my catapult C1 I am lucky if I can kill one opponent on my own, if it stays out in the open. When getting hit by LRMs I am no were near as concerned as I am when getting hit by PPCs or ACs. I just charge into kill the LRM boat or maneuver to avoid the missiles then ignore the mech.

SRMs are just as frustrating. My SRMs are hardly scratching the armor.

Streaks are still hitting the CT the majority of the time.

I think LRM damage needs to be raised to 1.4 and SRM damage to 2.
Do this and lets see how they work.

LRMs were damn near perfect at the end of closed beta. After Artemis was introduced, and fixed again, LRMs were in a good place. We need that balance again.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 24 March 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[iminbagdad]

After some more testing I want to reemphasize increasing missile flight speed. If they are going to hit softer then more should hit. I wouldn't be against increasing missile damage to 1. This won't make them easy mode weapons but would at least make an LRM 5 do some damage.

Incremental fix for a hot fix. Either or both

Flight speed +25%
Damage increase to 1


Don't wait two months to patch, hot fix it and let us test it. This shows we are working on it together and you are willing to listen to us.



I have no comment on SRM's as I am not testing them right now.