673 replies to this topic

[El Moosechacho]

Thank you for being thorough, responsive, and awesome.

[NemessisZod]

Thank you!

I think theese values are a little bit too low , maybe 10%-15% more ?

But thanks again! My faith is restored - no more LRMWarrior@!

[Rattlehead NZ]

Calm down people. I've been a tester since the beta started and we have been through many LRM adjustments before open beta started. It's just a smart process they have to go through until they reach the right damage levels. When Artimes was first released it changed everything, and the damages got higher and higher when the groupings for the Artimes became tighter.

So what they are doing is dropping the levels back to a TT level (the basis of all damage levels in MWO) and move up from there. Would rather have a series of weapons (missiles in this case) be too low than having them being overpowered and being the only weapon being used for cheap kills.

I've experienced this process with PGI before and guess what.... it works. Just takes a little time is all.

A small price to pay for perfection

[DTheSleepless]

Just got done playing for about an hour and a half.

I don't know about the rest of you, maybe it's because I roll primarily lights, but this was fun as hell. No more getting chewed up immediately by missiles.

My COM-2D actually felt *balanced.*

Missiles probably need a minor damage buff, but I'm telling you, I wasn't really hurting for damage with my SSRM2s. If they left things the way they are (which resulted in quite a few wonderful furballs, and PPC/ballistic snipers doing the lord's work instead of just raining LRMs), I'd probably be pretty happy.

[Xerxys]

BlueSanta, on 21 March 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Is this grouping with or without Artemis, because obviously Artemis is supposed to give missiles a tighter grouping; you should be able to concentrate SRM4s on the CT, for instance. However, we have noticed since the Artemis improvement patch at the beginning of this month that LRMs with Artemis were concentrating on the CT in addition to the tighter grouping.

I personally believe that you still need to decide between AP and HE warheads. A missile user shouldn't have the best of both worlds. However, maybe this balance in terms of base damage + splash will at least be a working compromise.

Then you would have to choose between AP and HE ballistic rounds. Would you then have to toggle between AP and HE rounds/missiles? Would you then have to carry multiple types of ammo? Does that seem right? It would suit me just fine, I don't use ballistics and the addition to missiles would only make my job easier. I find that trying to get even the majority of SRM missiles to hit a scout running 130+ as a much greater challenge than I do the ballistics.

I'm not a fan of LRMs as I usually run scouts or brawlers. I agree that missiles were rediculously over powering, but this nerf is just too much. In particular with SSRMs that don't seem to hit the target very often (scouts at 130+), certainly with less frequency than I could aiming SRMs. With the SRMs it "feels" like my missiles are tickling the other mech instead of doing any sort of real damage. I'm glad that missiles have been nerfed, but again I think it's just too much. That's after a few hours of playing with them to "feel" the changes.

The way things "feel" right now is that ballistic weapons out damage all weapons (with exception of the AC/2 and MG), followed by PPC, lasers and at a close last place now, missiles. The overall balance just "feels" off to me.

People can say what they want about splash damage, but the overall truth is that the damage that is splashed doesn't help you strip the armor off of where you're targeting. The things could spash the entire mech and it's not going to help me get to the vulnerable internals any faster. Even with the spash damage to my SSRMs and the 3MLs, my best match now is 462 damage. The only true weapon of light mechs has been ripped away and a near worthless weapon system is left. I hope that people understand I'm not wanting to go back to where it was, but it needs a bit of a bump now imo.

Edited by Xerxys, 22 March 2013 - 01:34 AM.

[Rezerford]

I've never piloted LRM boats.
Can't tell for anyone else, but for me, I was completely satisfied with the LRM\SRM damage as it used be before latest patch and hotfix.
Why won't you just roll back config of missiles to that status?

[ICEFANG13]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 21 March 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Tell all this to your local miltary acquaintances who work with artillery or missile support, land, air, or sea. Tell all this to the current and former military who are still alive because of that long range support. Because I know a few people, freinds and family both, who I guarantee would have a LONG and LOUD laugh right in your bloody face.

I could tell them, because they know this is a game, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

[Elizander]

I took out my 3x SRM4+A, LL, 2x ML Pretty Baby and it seemed alright. If this is just a temporary solution then I suppose the results doesn't matter too much. I didn't feel like my missiles were useless but I could probably use another ton of ammo now.

[Commander Kobold]

Elizander, on 21 March 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

I took out my 3x SRM4+A, LL, 2x ML Pretty Baby and it seemed alright. If this is just a temporary solution then I suppose the results doesn't matter too much. I didn't feel like my missiles were useless but I could probably use another ton of ammo now.

from what I hear SRMs are still working rather well it's the LRMs that can seem to kill anything anymore unless you boat them an mass (60+) or your target is dim witted and stands there for 10+ volleys and lets you kill him.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

ICEFANG13, on 21 March 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

I could tell them, because they know this is a game, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

I'm shocked that you think I don't know that either. This is also a pseudo-simulator (moreso before PGI got it's hands on the IP, sadly) so RL tactics and tech' should be the guides here, not whim. I trust that you were aware of that, and just forgot perhaps?

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 21 March 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[KinLuu]

Missile damage feels good now, I think it is were it should be. But there is still some balancing to be done.

1) I feel that the ammount of shots per ton of ammo should be increased for both LRMs and SRMs. This is especially important for Mechs that intent to use one or two LRMs as backup weapon - e.g. most stock Mechs. If you have only one or two tons of ammo per launcher, your mech does have no staying power. This would be a quality of life improvement without completely destroying the balance.

2) Time to target for LRMs could be decreased. I am unsure if this is needed, but it would make LRM a better choice for high elo games, aka a better choice against players that are not completely stupid. Maybe increase missile speed by 30-50%?

3) With the decreased DPS per launcher, it might be a good idea to look at the generated heat. LRMs are now a sustained DPS weapon and are much more affected by heat than before.

[grayson marik]

LegoPirate, on 21 March 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

question: do you guys have a super beta? (a beta for the beta) if not id recommend getting one. you could open it up for volunteers and give out small amounts of MC as incentive to participate if you cant get anyone.

this would prevent stuff like he-man missles from destroying everything.

They have such a thing. unfortunately, noone from the devs told the testers that something with LRMS was changed, so they all tested the new map to death, but noone ever took LRMS ^^ and so the bug slipped through.

[AtomCore]

Increasing LRM speed to 250 m/s and PPC's heat to 8.5-9.0 would be nice too!

[Abledime]

having always tried to run balanced mecks, that don't run Hot, can hit across the battle field but still tear chunks off close range, I was a little worried how this patch would affect my long range ability to hit targets. but my fist few matches have given me damage done ranges in the 4-500 mark where its roughly been.
On the plus side when i got caught in a LRM barrage I didn't die immediately. So for me a good fix so far.

[Clayton M Abernathy]

So far feels like it is over compensation. Compared to pre March 19th patch, my current LRM damage output is around 60-70% of my pre 19th numbers. (pure anecdotal evidence). Previously it was hard to shoot down a light who is rushing an LRM boat, but with current damage output all mediums and dragons are equally difficult to get away from.

I suppose it depends on what role LRM's are supposed to play. If it is meant to be a secondary weapon, to supplement damage, then they are on the right track. If it is intended to remain a primary damage output option, then the nerf was too much.

The combined nerfs to the catapult C4's twist, and the missile nerfs reduce the viability of the C4 variant.

In short it "feels" like LRM's are too weak.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ranzear, on 21 March 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Figure if an LRM hits perfectly between components, it'll do 0.7*1.4 = 0.98 damage. If an SRM hits right on a border between components, it'll do 1.5*1.4 = 2.1 damage. Almost dead on tabletop values without letting them smash single sections.

This is a very intelligent and commendable fix.

Might be a bit "too optimistic", however. But we'll see.

[INSEkT L0GIC]

I just ran through Testing Grounds in my 2xLRM10 4xSRM4 A1 Catapult, and damage was about what I'd expect against stock mechs / trial mechs.

Primary damage seems to all go to CT with the splash to other parts of the Mech, so it doesn't take long to drop them, just an extra LRM20-30 / SRM8-12 for most.
(over how much needed to drop them prior to patch --Edit)

Popped the Atlas in the back with SRM's and it splashed to the head. Most of the frontal hits did not light up the Head. That was interesting.

Edited by INSEkT L0GIC, 21 March 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[NoxMorbis]

PAtch:

Good = LRM
Bad = SRMs

SRMs are effctive a nonstarter now.

[Chavette]

Im happy about it, personally not a fan of Click-to-Kill concept.

A guy with a tracking weapon shouldn't be able to 1v1 a guy with direct fire weapon at 300m like it was before the patch.

[Ornonge]

Went to testing ground to test new values.

LRM seem pretty good. Took 7 shots of 2 ALRM15 to core an AS7-D. Grouping seems good and all. No complains.

SRM feel a bit underwhelming though. Took me 3 shots of 2 ASRM6 to core a Commando and 1t of ammo (100 missles) to core same Atlas at point blank. On testing this is ok, but to hit a Commando with all missles in actual combat is rather impossible so maybe reducing the spread a bit would help?

EDIT: Acutally considering the carzy boating action out there the Dmg-Values hit the spot. If i Had been a 6x SRM6 A1 i would have almost 2 shot the Atlas and 1 shot the COM. Decend i would say.

Edited by Ornonge, 22 March 2013 - 12:01 AM.