187 replies to this topic

[Loc Nar]

Built the 4X (which I voted for) and have been running it. Nice build... good job Selfish, I'm not regretting dusting off this slow beast that's just been rusting in my stable, and think it would actually be quite a nice trial for new pilots. Even in the training ground (no benefit from pilot efficiencies yet...) it still behaves nicely and is quite manageable. In a match, it can take a beating as well as put out some actual hurt, and even if you're trigger happy the heat is manageable...

[Darth Mech]

D34K, on 22 March 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Oh my God, these builds are beyond terrible! I feel bad for new players who will get a very rough onboarding experience of MWO. What on earth are you all thinking?

You should have gotten competition builds from the teams from RHoD or the Proxis league. At least they would be somewhat optimised. There's a bunch of builds here that have 3-4 weapons of different and completely uncomplimentary ranges. First, that's awful; second, that's a whole stack of extra complexity a new player doesn't need.

Well done everyone, this is exactly the opposite of what you should have done.

Just like your build?? ....wait, you didn't submit one. Stop bagging on other peoples efforts to make the game more enjoyable for new players if you aren't going to contribute.

[GearBoxClock]

Darth Mech, on 22 March 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Just like your build?? ....wait, you didn't submit one. Stop bagging on other peoples efforts to make the game more enjoyable for new players if you aren't going to contribute.

Wrap it up everyone, no one is allowed to discuss the 'mechs unless they made them.






Seriously though, the Cataphract taking first is a pretty bad build. It's weapons don't compliment each other at all and it's single SRM4 is pretty pathetic.

[Psikez]

D34K, on 22 March 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Oh my God, these builds are beyond terrible! I feel bad for new players who will get a very rough onboarding experience of MWO. What on earth are you all thinking?

You should have gotten competition builds from the teams from RHoD or the Proxis league. At least they would be somewhat optimised. There's a bunch of builds here that have 3-4 weapons of different and completely uncomplimentary ranges. First, that's awful; second, that's a whole stack of extra complexity a new player doesn't need.

Well done everyone, this is exactly the opposite of what you should have done.

Is this the attitude of all the KaoS pilots or just yours?

[Darth Mech]

GearBoxClock, on 22 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Wrap it up everyone, no one is allowed to discuss the 'mechs unless they made them.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying if you care that much about getting new players into the game then you should have submitted a build instead of bashing the ones that were. Saying "these builds are beyond terrible", and then not submitting one yourself is just like admitting that you could have done no better. Where is his "better" build?

Edited by Darth Mech, 22 March 2013 - 03:41 PM.

[Psikez]

GearBoxClock, on 22 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Wrap it up everyone, no one is allowed to discuss the 'mechs unless they made them.

How did you come to this conclusion?

This is quite clearly the "Build a Trial" contest and not the "Build the 1 of 4 mechs that work for Run Hot or Die" contest

Edited by Psikez, 22 March 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Ken Fury]

Vote for either the Dragon-1C or the Dragon-5N, this way we'd get a good Trial. And for a first a Trial Dragon that's not utterly rubish.

[x Zool x]

People never cease to amaze me with their criticisms.
Trial mechs should be based on ACTUAL BT type configs (or styled around). This IS what EVERY Trial Mech has been so far, NOT all the heavily modified designs that you have spent lots of time tweaking, playtesting, etc

Phorashi has it right.

How many of you whingers & whiners thought about the fact that almost every mech available when you purchase it has:
-NO tech tree unlocked
-Single Heat Sinks
-No Endo Steel Internals
-No Ferro Fibrous Armour
-Rarely has an XL engine
-HAS 3 or more weapon groups (how are people going to learn otherwise?)
-HAS limited Ammo (Jagermechs prime example)
-Armour that is 45-65% of max

Perhaps the criteria should have been stricter.

Although I personally don't agree with some of the designs, CONGRATULATIONS to those that were chosen for not putting out "premium pimped builds"

This IS what the comp was about.

Edited by Zoolanator, 22 March 2013 - 06:55 PM.

[Deathlike]

GearBoxClock, on 22 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Seriously though, the Cataphract taking first is a pretty bad build. It's weapons don't compliment each other at all and it's single SRM4 is pretty pathetic.

On paper, it looks like a strict brawler build. The ranges on the med laser+SRMs are actually complementary for brawling.

The Dual AC10s are more of the "unorthodox" type of range weaponry. Most people don't think of it that way, and would usually consider Gauss over an AC10. The AC10s are the weapons to dish over range.. which is why it doesn't look as powerful on paper. You want to be firing them as much as you can actually. You wouldn't be able to do that with LBX10s...

The main reason why Cents are popular as they are capable at still dealing damage while their torsos are out. The 4x build has the same functionality. An LRM5 is generally not optimal under the circumstances (it gets eaten by AMS), and SRMs despite the current nerfs are still pretty useful.

There's very little negative of the build itself... the actual weakness is if you make the ammo explode. Outside of that, it doesn't have many easy to expose weaknesses... something you cannot cannot actually say for the Dragon (but, at least for the Dragon, it's by design, and not the fault of the builder).

[Raso]

Looks like a close race between the Cataphract 4X and the Dragon 5N. I voted for the 4X because I want people to feel the power of the dual AC10!

[Murku]

Re: DRG-1C chosen for vote:

Hidden criteria of 2 to 1 armor ratio front/back on a Dragon Garth?

Do you drive a Dragon? 90% of time you will be facing your opponent as Dragons are not circle-jerkers and a Dragon's CT front surface area is about 6 to 8 times larger it's back surface.

Oh, and XL side torso deaths don't work like below so that's 4.2 points of cooling instead of 5.4 (1 DHS doesn't fit anyway).

'The positioning of the 3 extra double heat sinks in the torsos and not the engine provides further protection to the XL engine in case of a critical hit to a torso.'

Then there's 4 weapon groups (GR, SRM, LT ML, LA ML) unless we're teaching rooks to keep armlock on.

Ok, I sound bitter even to myself...

/Sigh

Edited by Murku, 23 March 2013 - 05:14 AM.

[LethalMezzle]

Not sure where the whole 'these are all terrible builds' are coming from. A variant of that DRG-1C build has been a personal favourite of mine since July. I don't run it any more, but it was pretty decent.

I guess it's because some of these builds really aren't great for new players (Dragon is rather unforgiving) and some of them aren't min/maxed to perfection so people think that they're automatically crap.

These are going to be used in pub matches after all. They don't have to be the best mechs ever.

[Michael Costanza]

In case no one mentioned it, the CPLT-C1 links to the wrong mech. (At least, I don't see the "LRM cover", just the TAG)

Also, I think the criteria for this contest should've been clearer. As a trial mech, most new players won't be able to afford these XL mechs.

Edited by Michael Costanza, 22 March 2013 - 09:55 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Ok, so they went with the most noob friendly builds, not the best ones. Some of these builds get a strong "meh".

However, they are all improvements over the stock mechs, so it is a step in the right direction.

My submitted build and favorite Dragon made it, so the 1C gets my vote.

Edited by Roughneck45, 22 March 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[collosus]

ease of use, yet it has to be effective... both the 4X and the 5N do that very well, but the 4X gets my vote because of the few ammo the 5N has.

Edited by collosus, 22 March 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[fil5000]

collosus, on 22 March 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

ease of use, yet it has to be effective... both the 4X and the 5N do that very well, but the 4X gets my vote because of the few ammo the 5N has.

This is confusing to me - are you really finding yourself burning through 40 rounds of gauss ammo with a single gauss rifle? 40 seems like plenty.

[Snowblack]

Im using the same build as th DRG 5N Porashi I came up with it on my own hence I have a bit different ammo position. I hope it wins

[D34K]

How much FUN is a new player going to have in an awful, unbalanced, and, in some cases, complicated, build? (An A1 with three types of missile... really?!) I suppose it depends on your measure of fun, but I think there needs to be some reasonable amount simplicity and competitiveness.

These mechs are terrible for their intended purpose. Give the poor scrubs a chance rather than hamstringing them with your own failures of imagination and understanding.

The "best" mech here is a Dragon with an XL Engine and just 36 armour in its side torsos. In the hands of a veteran player -- with knowledge of maps, maneuvering, and rolling damage -- that mech might last first contact. In the hands of someone still learning that their torso can point in a different direction to their legs, this is a sub 10 second kill.

I want this game to be good and have new players enthused by it, but this is all kinds of horrible.

[General Master Sergeant Kerensky]

Let's compare the 4X to the Dragon-5N:



The Dragon is clearly superior in most range bands, and that while being more heat efficient and a lot more mobile. It has a 20+ kph Speed advantage. The fact that it's main armament has enough ammo for 160 seconds of continous fire or doesn't require any ammo is a big plus.

[General Master Sergeant Kerensky]

D34K, on 23 March 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

The "best" mech here is a Dragon with an XL Engine and just 36 armour in its side torsos. In the hands of a veteran player -- with knowledge of maps, maneuvering, and rolling damage -- that mech might last first contact. In the hands of someone still learning that their torso can point in a different direction to their legs, this is a sub 10 second kill.

I want this game to be good and have new players enthused by it, but this is all kinds of horrible.

Well that the better builds in the contest were not selected can't be blamed on the build creators.

I personally would have preferred to see some more robust and easy to use design in the vote.