2001 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

MWHawke, on 03 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

That would just leave the whole thing open for exploits. I run PPC Atlas Rs'ses and have learned to shoot with them. Maybe you should try learning it too?

There is no perfect system.

I've already learned to shoot with an Atlas... however it was on a DC and a D. The RS is not my cup of tea.. and I had a terrible record on an RS (it wasn't even a 1 to 1 W/L).

[Wildman13]

I'd ultimately like some option to see my pretties in a third person view, but purely for aesthetic enjoyment. I wouldn't play in that mode if it becomes an option.

Even better, but unlikely, I'd love to be able to save a follow cam view of a battle for later viewing.

[MWHawke]

Deathlike, on 04 April 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

There is no perfect system.

I've already learned to shoot with an Atlas... however it was on a DC and a D. The RS is not my cup of tea.. and I had a terrible record on an RS (it wasn't even a 1 to 1 W/L).

That is correct but to ask the developers to add in something that would introduce even more exploits would not be recommended.

[TOGSolid]

Deathlike, on 03 April 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

I hate to put down this point, as I'd rather not have 3rd person, but there is some legit utility purpose for it.

Prior and during double XP weekend, I had been grinding out the Atlas. Even now, while I still have some of the Atlases for the grind, I had the most trouble with them altogether, particularly the Atlas-RS.

The Atlas-RS is seemingly the perfect long range mech... with PPCs and/or Gauss. I guess you could do something useful for it short range, but as far as I had it, it was the most troublesome mech. I simply could not get used to the "towering eye level height" vs the "rather low arm levels" that all of the Atlases have. It was very difficult to figure out if I am able to shoot over the hills at times. I'm sure if I "figure it out", it wouldn't be so painful (I'd rather be piloting a Jenner).

If 3rd person was deployed, I'd probably have a much better idea of where my arms are, relative to the hill that I must climb over to shoot. It been significantly easier in other mechs (Raven, Jenner, Cicada, Catapult) because it's not that hard to envision. The Atlas however is that special case. Imagine if you had to shoot in a Thor... which it's cockpit in a slightly strange location (it's like its left torso or something IIRC). In 3rd person, you are able to see where your weapons come from and have a better idea on when to shoot. When mechs have the overhead arms like the Stalker, this is a non-issue... but when you have the arms that are far lower than eye level, it truly can be problematic.

Again... I'd rather have no 3rd person, but there are genuine instances that 3rd person is supposed to help you out. The Atlas in my case is one of those instances. 1st person in an Atlas is very difficult to snipe with... let alone shoot weapons from.

The real solution here just involves better HUD feedback. Make the arm crosshair turn colours if their shot is blocked or put two little [BLOCKED] indicators on the lower section of the hud. One could be on the bottom left, the other on the bottom right and they'd light up depending on which arm was blocked. This is a much better solution than adding in a viewing mode that introduces a **** storm of problems.

Edited by TOGSolid, 05 April 2013 - 04:18 AM.

[MWHawke]

TOGSolid, on 05 April 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

The real solution here just involves better HUD feedback. Make the arm crosshair turn colours if their shot is blocked or put two little [BLOCKED] indicators on the lower section of the hud. One could be on the bottom left, the other on the bottom right and they'd light up depending on which arm was blocked. This is a much better solution than adding in a viewing mode that introduces a **** storm of problems.

Do the indicators next to the targeting reticules indicate whether you have them in range and in target or just in range?

[Maliconus]

Really....67 pages of feedback, most of it against 3rd person.... Just to be ignored, like all rest rest of the feedback on 3rd person.

[LordBraxton]

When they HUD is working it gives you TONS of indicators, between the minimap below and compass above if you can't figure out how to manage your torso twist without 3rd person you'll NEVER be able to contribute to a team anyway, as you are clearly challenged and should be busy with enriching therapeutic activities instead of violent video games.

[KuruptU4Fun]

If memory serves, having an option for both a 1stPV and a 3rdPV have been available since the first Need for Speed, or at least shortly there after. The option has spanned many genres, and many AAA games that have provided it have had quite a bit of success sales wise. Does that translate to an MMO? Well few to none of us really know do we? So why not give PGI the benefit of the doubt to experiment with the concept? Companies have come a long way from a short time ago to now when it comes to options. When Ford first offered the Model T to the US, he stated that the customer could have any color car they wanted, as long as it was black. Do you as a consumer want only one choice from a company which would essentially be forced upon you, or do options appeal to you when someone provides them?

From what we have been told, this is a FPS, if you choose to you can play against others who choose to play in 3rdPV or not at all. PGI is not going from a FPS to a 3rdPS, and if they can make 3rdPV to where those players have no or a very small advantages for playing that way then I say let them do it.

PGI has come up with several things that have been added to this game that the forum community has rallied to the argument that it's overpowered. One was changed almost immediately and it and subsequent additions (Cool Shot and Artie/Air strikes) have been proven to be not as overpowering as the naysayers believed they would be. On that point most people have seemed to drop the subject altogether. So scream all you want now about 3rd person. But I'm betting a lot of those people will fade into the background once they see (and at least play for a bit) that it's not the game breaking subject they were screaming about before...

[Alois Hammer]

Maliconus, on 05 April 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Really....67 pages of feedback, most of it against 3rd person.... Just to be ignored, like all rest rest of the feedback on 3rd person.

Big surprise, when the OP basically states "We know you're all against 3rd person, but go [REDACTED] yourselves. Now, give us suggestions on how to add what you don't want added."

[T9FURY]

To call people stupid or lazy because they can't grasp the concept of a particular in game function is both arrogant and insulting and it is players like that in a community that ruin it. At the end of the day we all come from different game genres and have differing skill levels, and if introducing 3PS helps bring in more players then so be it. I have tried introducing MWO to the clan I am a member of with no success and it is all due to two factors, leg / torso orientation and reticles. I have players that are FPS players used to turning both legs and body at the same time, strafing left and right and it all comes naturally, they have 1 cross hairs or scope to look through or they have never even played an FPS, now when they try to play MWO they have a body and torso that turn independently of each other and not only that they have to deal with 2 reticles. Yeah this would be easy for a kid to deal with and that is a scientific fact, but you throw it at your average 20 - 60 year bloke who, according to women can't multi task, they are pretty much screwed. At that is why MWO hasn't taken off with new players in my clan. So, should 3PS be introduced (do we have a choice?), if it helps bring in more players then yes, however, ONLY in the training grounds, this will give newcomers to the game an excellent time to practice with their mechs, but along side this I would make a decent INTERACTIVE tutorial walkthrough and not just a video to watch, I would also revamp the current training area so you can invite players to join you. The current training area is ok for heat testing and learning the maps, but it doesn't give you the same atmosphere as going against a real player / mech who is wanting to kill you. Whatever happens do not implement it into general gameplay and certainly not into CW. I would absolutely love to see an all out fully 3D camera in a replay mode so I can grab some good screenies and make some movies . Apologies for the one paragraph, return key doesn't seem to be working

[TOGSolid]

While we're talking about introducing ideas that aren't ******** to make things easier for new players, why not allow guys on a team to drop into the training grounds together? I realize it's supposed to be offline, but giving it an online option will allow veteran players a chance to help train their buddies who are just getting into the game for the first time without worrying about having their delicious nougat center get scooped out by a 6 PPC Stalker.

[Splinters]

My issue with 3PS is relative to the use of resources. I wouldn't mind talking about new features if we were on stable consistent builds, but if the 3PS is coming at the expense of engineers not working on bug fixes or platform stability, I have to argue that the bug fixes are bad enough that those need more work than new features like 3PS.

We want more maps, mechs and bug fixes. The priority of discussing 3PS vs all the other 3 priorities seem to pale in comparison.

Unless there is some known metric that says we will get 1-5m new players because of this mode, I don't see how this is really worth the engineering resources vs other priorities. I felt the same way with coolant flush, airstrikes, and artillery strikes.

-S

Edited by Splinters, 05 April 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Hotthedd]

KuruptU4Fun, on 05 April 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

If memory serves, having an option for both a 1stPV and a 3rdPV have been available since the first Need for Speed, or at least shortly there after. The option has spanned many genres, and many AAA games that have provided it have had quite a bit of success sales wise. Does that translate to an MMO? Well few to none of us really know do we? So why not give PGI the benefit of the doubt to experiment with the concept? Companies have come a long way from a short time ago to now when it comes to options. When Ford first offered the Model T to the US, he stated that the customer could have any color car they wanted, as long as it was black. Do you as a consumer want only one choice from a company which would essentially be forced upon you, or do options appeal to you when someone provides them?

From what we have been told, this is a FPS, if you choose to you can play against others who choose to play in 3rdPV or not at all. PGI is not going from a FPS to a 3rdPS, and if they can make 3rdPV to where those players have no or a very small advantages for playing that way then I say let them do it.

PGI has come up with several things that have been added to this game that the forum community has rallied to the argument that it's overpowered. One was changed almost immediately and it and subsequent additions (Cool Shot and Artie/Air strikes) have been proven to be not as overpowering as the naysayers believed they would be. On that point most people have seemed to drop the subject altogether. So scream all you want now about 3rd person. But I'm betting a lot of those people will fade into the background once they see (and at least play for a bit) that it's not the game breaking subject they were screaming about before...

Nobody is being "forced" to play in 1st person. As far as I know there have been zero reports of people playing MW:O with a gun to their head. The consumables argument has nothing to do with it, as the argument against it was about P2W, and PGI fixed that. There are thousands of options for those who "need" 3PV, they can utilize those options instead of ruining this game.

[Alois Hammer]

Buddahcjcc, on 05 April 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

third reply in the thread says it all really

Yup:

Alois Hammer, on 05 April 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

"We know you're all against 3rd person, but go [REDACTED] yourselves. Now, give us suggestions on how to add what you don't want added."

[Deathlike]

TOGSolid, on 05 April 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

The real solution here just involves better HUD feedback. Make the arm crosshair turn colours if their shot is blocked or put two little [BLOCKED] indicators on the lower section of the hud. One could be on the bottom left, the other on the bottom right and they'd light up depending on which arm was blocked. This is a much better solution than adding in a viewing mode that introduces a **** storm of problems.

Here's the situation I'm faced a lot... let's say I'm kinda shooting over a hill.. which tends to be uneven. More often than not, half of the PPC shots that I made from an Atlas-RS hits the hill. If I go over the hill more, I'll probably shoot much better, but will get exposed far more than I need. The fact is, the eye level of the Atlas relative to its arms is a huge hindrance as to whether or not my shots would connect... and there's no real hint if both my arm weapons will shoot over the hill to its intended target.

Thontor, on 05 April 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure those are just cooldown indicators, letting you know when a weapon group is ready to fire.


To see if a weapon is in range you have to look at the weapons list on the bottom right. Black equals out of range, yellow equals within range, but reduced damage, and green equals within optimum range, therefore full damage.

If only was a training mission that would describe it... I remember this being in the training videos, but not exactly what those things did. Back to - they need to get that done before thinking people will play this game in 3rd person. Educating the user, however silly, is better than them ragequitting because they couldn't figure out how to move in one direction and independently torso twist in another direction to shoot targets.

[DrBunji]

I made a poll where you can vote on whether you think the devs should make "1PV only" the default option.

Go here and let your voice be heard;
http://mwomercs.com/...ea-to-the-devs/

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

DrBunji, on 06 April 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I made a poll where you can vote on whether you think the devs should make "1PV only" the default option.

Go here and let your voice be heard;
http://mwomercs.com/...ea-to-the-devs/

you havent read any of this thread have you?

Quote

Roadbeer, on 21 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Bryan, please answer this honestly. I have seen 2 polls on this topic and they have been OVERWHELMINGLY against 3rd person. Why are you guys so stuck on this when clearly the players (by majority) don't want it?

The poll he's talking about was asking if we wanted 3rd person view AT ALL and it was 5000 to 100 against
http://mwomercs.com/...s-poll-revived/ theres another one, 1500 to 128 against.

The PROBLEM with this is this reply from Bryan himself:

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Honest answer.

The analysis on those who voted, showed that the majority of votes came from a very narrow demographic of our player base. And while they represent some of core players, they did not necessarily represent the opinion of the general user base. The majority of our players never visit, post, or read the forum content, so the poll could be considered weighted in favour of a specific demographic.

Since the majority of players who have an issue with 3rd person come generally from the core players, we elected to address this issue via this forum post to collect all of the concerns and ideas that this group faces or has with 3rd person.

they analyzed the ppl who voted 5k against and decided that the forum population isnt enough pl to care what they think. They only care about their Twitter and facebook followers (who may well not even play). Theyre looking at the two birds in the bush while holding on to one in their hand.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 06 April 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[Deathlike]

Facebook users don't actually play this game?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Deathlike, on 06 April 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Facebook users don't actually play this game?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

every single one that follows them does?
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

[Gremlich Johns]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 06 April 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

you havent read any of this thread have you?

The poll he's talking about was asking if we wanted 3rd person view AT ALL and it was 5000 to 100 against
http://mwomercs.com/...s-poll-revived/ theres another one, 1500 to 128 against.

The PROBLEM with this is this reply from Bryan himself:

they analyzed the ppl who voted 5k against and decided that the forum population isnt enough pl to care what they think.

This means they (PGI) are either stupid, or they are only concerned with extracting whatever $$ they can. PGI is ignoring details from a segment of the player base at their peril! I blame IGP, frankly. If PGI was the only party involved in MW:O, I think they would have taken MW:LL and that team and worked with it, combined arms and all.