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Zyllos, on 22 March 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:
Bryan Ekman, on 22 March 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:
Zyllos: With many discussions on convergence of weaponry, has there been any discussions on why/why not more variability should be added to weapon fire, thus spreading the damage more across a target?
A: We’ve removed randomness from weapon firing in favor of skill.
A: We’ve removed randomness from weapon firing in favor of skill.
This what not quite what I was looking for. I knew you guys did this in favor of skill, I was looking for why you guys think that allowing all weapons to hit a single location across both arms and torso sections is not a game breaking decision and a balance nightmare?
Thanks for even looking at my question though.
This thread is why I am asking: Why is the Dragon Terrible?
Within that thread is reasons why the Dragon is bad. One of top issues is that the energy and ballistic hardpoints are spread across sections, thus making weapon convergence impossible or extremely difficult. This is why many of the top tier mechs are those that can converge that weaponry easily (Stalker, Cataphract, Atlas, ect) across sections with mixed weaponry.
If that same idea is added to all mechs in the game, where sections are independent of each other, thus making sections firing on a bit different location on the crosshair than others, no random mechanics, would balance this back down to the Dragon's level and idea that even with many weapons in different sections with mixed weaponry or many weapons of all the same time, your shots will have to take time to land in the same section.
This is what I am asking about, why is it ok for the Dragon to have a difficult time to converge weaponry while other mechs do not?
I asked a question in the Ask the Devs 34 and got a response that was already known. Myself and the community knows that weapons needs to land where they are pointed. But that was not the question I was asking.
I am not proposing having random mechanics introduced into the game (but I think Cone-Of-Fire is the best way forward, but it seems EVERYBODY is against this even though it has been a staple of all shooter games, past and present). What I am proposing is that we need weapons not completely converge onto a single point.
I am sure many that look into the Game Balance and Suggestion forums have seen my proposal of making weapons individually not converge but instead fire into a square that is sized based on the location the weapon was fired from. Here is my example below:
Quote
Something I have begin to notice in MWO is that builds which can pin-point a lot of weaponry onto a single point for as long as possible than builds which can actually deal more damage but generally spreads the damage across a target.
This is part of why the phenomenon on why players generally only aim for the torsos. All their weapons can easily pin-point to a Left/Right Torso, which also destroys the arms in the process. Thus, there is little emphasis on destroying arms because you can just aim all your weaponry at the torso and destroy a mech or maim it by killing both a torso and arm.
I suggest three mechanic changes to fix this issue by placing more emphasis on arm mounted weaponry while removing some ability for all weapons to target a specific point, thus allowing more weapon fire to spread.
Suggestion One - Multiple Weapon Fire Out of a Single Weapon Port
This is an odd mechanic by PGI. I understand the logic behind allowing multiple weapons to be equipped to allow for more customization but why allow multiple weapons to fire out of the same physical weapon port at the same time?
A good example of this is the Atlas Right Torso 2 Ballistic hardpoint / 1 Physical Weapon port location. If someone equips two UAC/5s in this location, and places both of them on the same weapon group without chain fire, then why does both UAC/5s fire at the same time, having overlapping projectiles? This essentially makes it a UAC/10. This also fools your target because they believe a single UAC/5 is firing but actually it is 2 UAC/5s firing at the same time.
The Cicada is another prime example of this. With multiple Energy hardpoints in the same physical Weapon port, they can fire both laser, which overlaps each other looking like a single laser.
So I suggest adding a mechanic where if multiple weapons are fired at the same time out of a single weapon port, just fire the weapons immediately one after the other. This will help spread a bit of the damage just because of the delta time between each firing while moving and also not be used to fool your target.
Suggestion Two - Arm Actuators Given Meaning
This is a brand new mechanic added, which I believe PGI is planning on adding at some point in time. It is fairly straight forward implementation based on how existing mechs already behave and actually sticks to the TT actuator charts fairly well.
Shoulder actuator - Allow arm weaponry to converge on the Arm crosshair.
Upper Arm actuator - Allow vertical deviation of the Arm crosshair from the Torso crosshair.
Lower Arm actuator - Allow horizontal deviation of the Arm crosshair from the Torso crosshair.
Hand actuator - Allow hand related actions to be performed.
Suggestion Three - Torso Mounted Weaponry Do Not Converge
I personally think this is a big balancing factor to the game and part of the reason why nobody aims on arms and everyone can just place the crosshair on a single location and alpha strike, having all damage hit that single location.
I suggest making all torso mounted weaponry only aim straight ahead, aiming in relation to the cockpit view. Basically, a straight line is drawn down the center of the player's perspective. All torso mounted weaponry fires straight ahead from the mech in relation to this line. As a note, arm mounted weaponry will still only fire straight ahead, like torso weaponry. Just both arms point directly at the Arm crosshair.
A good example is the Atlas. The two Center Torso Laser ports will fire straight ahead, not converging on the location on which it is aimed at, but instead will be aimed at the Torso crosshair, landing in relation to the weapons mounted on the mech. So the two Lasers will land below the Torso crosshair, one directly below (because the cockpit is actually out of the left eye, thus the left Center Torso laser will be directly below you) and the other below and slightly to the right. The Ballistic and Missile hardpoints will be aiming to the below/left and below/right of the Torso crosshair.
What this does is removes the ability to pin-point all weaponry mounted on a mech (unless it is all in the arms) to hit a single location. Thus, placing a larger emphasis on arm mounted weaponry (with intact Shoulder actuators). While alpha strikes will still be around, they will not be the single location devastating that they are now, but instead be the wild firing of multiple systems to place as much damage on the target as fast as possible, not worrying about where on the mech it hits.
And with the greater emphasis on allowing convergence on arms only, players might start choosing to destroy an arm first before taking out the Left/Right Torso, especially on mechs which mount a large amount of weaponry on those arms.
Below is an example of what I am talking about:
TLDR
Remove ability to fire multiple weapons out of the same weapon port at the same time.
Add arm actuator functionality.
Make torso weaponry not converge, but instead fire straight ahead based on distance to selected target or longest range weapon.
All weapons fire straight ahead.
This is part of why the phenomenon on why players generally only aim for the torsos. All their weapons can easily pin-point to a Left/Right Torso, which also destroys the arms in the process. Thus, there is little emphasis on destroying arms because you can just aim all your weaponry at the torso and destroy a mech or maim it by killing both a torso and arm.
I suggest three mechanic changes to fix this issue by placing more emphasis on arm mounted weaponry while removing some ability for all weapons to target a specific point, thus allowing more weapon fire to spread.
Suggestion One - Multiple Weapon Fire Out of a Single Weapon Port
This is an odd mechanic by PGI. I understand the logic behind allowing multiple weapons to be equipped to allow for more customization but why allow multiple weapons to fire out of the same physical weapon port at the same time?
A good example of this is the Atlas Right Torso 2 Ballistic hardpoint / 1 Physical Weapon port location. If someone equips two UAC/5s in this location, and places both of them on the same weapon group without chain fire, then why does both UAC/5s fire at the same time, having overlapping projectiles? This essentially makes it a UAC/10. This also fools your target because they believe a single UAC/5 is firing but actually it is 2 UAC/5s firing at the same time.
The Cicada is another prime example of this. With multiple Energy hardpoints in the same physical Weapon port, they can fire both laser, which overlaps each other looking like a single laser.
So I suggest adding a mechanic where if multiple weapons are fired at the same time out of a single weapon port, just fire the weapons immediately one after the other. This will help spread a bit of the damage just because of the delta time between each firing while moving and also not be used to fool your target.
Suggestion Two - Arm Actuators Given Meaning
This is a brand new mechanic added, which I believe PGI is planning on adding at some point in time. It is fairly straight forward implementation based on how existing mechs already behave and actually sticks to the TT actuator charts fairly well.
Shoulder actuator - Allow arm weaponry to converge on the Arm crosshair.
Upper Arm actuator - Allow vertical deviation of the Arm crosshair from the Torso crosshair.
Lower Arm actuator - Allow horizontal deviation of the Arm crosshair from the Torso crosshair.
Hand actuator - Allow hand related actions to be performed.
Suggestion Three - Torso Mounted Weaponry Do Not Converge
I personally think this is a big balancing factor to the game and part of the reason why nobody aims on arms and everyone can just place the crosshair on a single location and alpha strike, having all damage hit that single location.
I suggest making all torso mounted weaponry only aim straight ahead, aiming in relation to the cockpit view. Basically, a straight line is drawn down the center of the player's perspective. All torso mounted weaponry fires straight ahead from the mech in relation to this line. As a note, arm mounted weaponry will still only fire straight ahead, like torso weaponry. Just both arms point directly at the Arm crosshair.
A good example is the Atlas. The two Center Torso Laser ports will fire straight ahead, not converging on the location on which it is aimed at, but instead will be aimed at the Torso crosshair, landing in relation to the weapons mounted on the mech. So the two Lasers will land below the Torso crosshair, one directly below (because the cockpit is actually out of the left eye, thus the left Center Torso laser will be directly below you) and the other below and slightly to the right. The Ballistic and Missile hardpoints will be aiming to the below/left and below/right of the Torso crosshair.
What this does is removes the ability to pin-point all weaponry mounted on a mech (unless it is all in the arms) to hit a single location. Thus, placing a larger emphasis on arm mounted weaponry (with intact Shoulder actuators). While alpha strikes will still be around, they will not be the single location devastating that they are now, but instead be the wild firing of multiple systems to place as much damage on the target as fast as possible, not worrying about where on the mech it hits.
And with the greater emphasis on allowing convergence on arms only, players might start choosing to destroy an arm first before taking out the Left/Right Torso, especially on mechs which mount a large amount of weaponry on those arms.
Below is an example of what I am talking about:
TLDR
Remove ability to fire multiple weapons out of the same weapon port at the same time.
Add arm actuator functionality.
Make torso weaponry not converge, but instead fire straight ahead based on distance to selected target or longest range weapon.
All weapons fire straight ahead.
What this does is keep mechs from 100% converging all weaponry onto a single point. From the diagram above, you can see that weapons are projected onto a matrix that is a 1:1 for their size on the mech. The arm mounted weapons will still "converge" but that is due to the arms pointing at the Arm crosshair, the arm mounted weapons themselves will still fire into a matrix that is 1:1 the size of the specific arm profile.
Now, I have seen several players say that this will not actually fix weapon convergence on some mechs. The Stalker is a good example with 2 arms that are identical on each side. While the energy hardpoints are on top of the arms (thus will project onto the Arm crosshair matrix at the top), them being mirrored will have them converge onto a single point (almost, the top/bottom laser on each arm will actually be above/below each other). But I think this is not a problem.
What this does is introduce an emphasis on how useful arms are. Right now, arms do not mean a lot, it's much preferred to fire at kill shot locations like the L/R Torso or C Torso because all weapons converge onto a single point for more damage. This is why the Catapult is always de'eared because those are where the weapons are, it's much easier to just de'ear it instead of killing a torso.
More emphasis on either going for kill shots on the torso sections or removing easily pin-pointable weaponry on a mech now becomes a choice. This is much better skill play than what is currently going on right now. This is why you see top players saying some mechs are not good. They can not place all their weaponry onto a single point, thus giving them an alpha strike and overall DPS disadvantage.
My quote above talks about the Dragon. It's the centerpiece of what is wrong between weapon convergence and mechs.
I truly hope PGI actually sits down and sees that there weapon mechanics are causing many issues for this game. It will continue to plague the MechWarrior franchise but we have time to fix this once and for all.
I am almost begging PGI to sit down and take an extremely serious look at this issue.
Safe and speedy recovery!
