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The Elephant in the room: PVE


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#181 Stormdragon

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 07:39 PM

View PostBelisarius1, on 03 June 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Not interested in PvE. That time could be better spent improving multi. Happy with the direction PGI has chosen.



/sigh

They haven't chosen anything...the game will launch with PVP other game modes will follow, they want to do PVE but they are going to make sure they get it right.

#182 Athena Hart

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostVora MacEvedy, on 01 June 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Well, if the PVE starts for us Mercs either on Trell I (Decision at Thunder Rift) or An Ting (Wolves on the Border) it might be interesting... God help the Merc who gets sent Pirate Hunting on the Rock...


Gee thanks.. bring back bad memories.. my GM thought that'd be funny to put me on "The Rock" at that time. And I only had a Mercenary Batallion (Comprised of my Buddies Company (Dyers Desperados) and my 2 Characters Companies Hart's Commando's and Damage Inc.
Damage Inc. Survived as well as over half of Hart's Commandos (though most of the mechs were lost), my Buddies Company was guarding our dropship (Overlord Class) so was able to escape and pick up everyone at a hidden point. My CO of Harts Commandos (Athena Hart) was captured by the clans after defeating a star of Omni's in her Hatchetman (which was the only good turn of events)

#183 Alondo

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:07 PM

sabotssnake said exactly what I've been thinking. Thanks for reeading my mind. :D
I will try to support this game in hopes of a good single player experience coming in the futute.
To put things simply, I like being the hero of the story, and i don't have any intrest in getting good at PvP.

Heck I suck at PvP and I'm fine with that. :P

We can have both PvP and PvE folks, I see no good reason that we can't.

Look at how well EvE does both.

I have no problem with PvP players doing their thing, I just have a problem with them having a problem with me doing my thing. :D
I've seen this attitude in EvE also, some PvPers there seem to be offended by my mere exsistence in their little sandbox.
I Run missions, I make money, I learn to pilot bigger and better ships, and I have no real effect on their universe, yet for some reason I'm in the wrong for not wanting to compete in the PvP part of EvE.

Such is life. . .

#184 Wyzak

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:40 PM

How many people here have have purchased the DLC campaigns for the two modern Fallout releases? Once the engine was in place the DLC were not hard to add, and the customer (me) was very pleased with the ability to get a dozen or so more missions for about $20. Now imagine this on a Battletech scale... say you would pay $80 for a campaign that took you through a more scripted version of the Clan invasion, or $25 dollars for a lesser known time period. (Some of us already paid hundreds of dollars to participate in the FedCom civil war via MC2 and MW4.) I think these would have a greater ongoing sales and development potential than some of the cosmetic items which are being pursued right now - which is not to say I don't want those sold, of course, but to say that any potential product which can generate money for this venture is good for the Battletech community as a whole.

Now I will stop beating the horse.

#185 Belisarius1

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostStormdragon, on 03 June 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:



/sigh

They haven't chosen anything...the game will launch with PVP other game modes will follow, they want to do PVE but they are going to make sure they get it right.


You're gonna need to source that one, bro. I don't doubt they've said "maybe later", but that's a long way from "yes".

Edited by Belisarius1, 03 June 2012 - 10:58 PM.


#186 Reported for Inappropriate Name

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:06 PM

an offline singleplayer campaign for a free to play game would be pretty awesome. i'd be willing to pay 20$ for it if it gives me at least 8 hours of enjoyment. 40-50$ if it had the same kind of dealy like warhammer spess marine has and gives me additional styles/skins to use in multiplayer to show people i've beaten the single player game

#187 Revage

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:25 PM

A PvE aspect would definitely secure $60's out of me... been hazy to spend money on PvP-only online-only games ever since All Point Bulletin's epic fail.

Edited by Revage, 04 June 2012 - 07:20 AM.


#188 Killhunger

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:43 AM

I am a also a person who likes PVP and PVP. More accurately I would say I like Co-op in any form. I can get this in PVP and PVE, if the AI is challenging and there is some sort of randomized aspect to the missions I think the replayability of PVE content could have lots of appeal and a be a challenge to any player.

Yes AI can be predictable in some scenarios. I have seen some impressive and challenging AI. And newer games the AI is always getting better. It's not human, but challenging. Also keep in mind that a well oiled well coordinated group in MWO PVP is not going to get a challenge from a pick up group. An AI would likely stand a better chance. We'll have to hope the matchmaking is competant to keep things exciting.

I think they shoud get a solid PVP game going...make some money then add the PVE component. I honestly don't think that you should separate the PVP vs PVE items and things. Maybe penalize the PVE some so it doesn't become faster to get better gear by PVE grinding for gear to use in PVP, but as has been said, they guy who spent all that time to grind for gear in PVE is not going to be a match for the guy that earned it in PVP. I don't know why he would be worried.

Also if a player wants to get their feet wet in PVE prior to jumping into PVP, (What I do most of the time getting used to the controls of a new game) I usually get into the PVP once I am comfortable with the game. That scenario once available, is going to bring in more players into the PVP game mix and keep that growing, I'd think the PVPer's would be glad for the fresh meat.

(Reposted from an earlier dead post on PVE)

I have some friends that would be more inclined to play this game if there were some PVE content. Being those not so competetive types, they would rather not hear the taunts of those that they lose to. Just not PVP people, and there are lots and lots of them.

It is not looking as if the game will go the route of having PVE where the clans invade in the time they have to prepare it. I agree that it would be cool to fight overwhelming odds against well designed AI PVE opponants with Clan tech. To me that would be the best possible way to present the event and have it match the odds that it would in the timeline.

Sadly most likely what will happen is that the playerbase will only hear about news stories and map updates and things that show the clan invasion with no real option to interact with it as it is happening. We will hear about the victories against them by comstar forces and once the salvage and use of clan tech and new tech is available to the IS as a whole. Then the clans will be playable. No advantages and an even playing field.

I wish they either started the game timeline way before the invasion and did the invasion as a well planned expansion with some PVE challenges where we get to lose hard against clan ai PVE while trying to hold them off for a set time or inflict a percentage of kills before being defeated. That would be the best way this could be done. I just don't see them doing this in the time that they have to accomplish it. I can hope.

- Kill

#189 Thaurien

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:59 AM

I would definately support them seeing if pve in some context was viable, provided that it didn't adversely effect the pvp side.

#190 Dragon Lady

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:59 AM

View PostJayboltz, on 02 June 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

PvP is what will keep this game alive for years and years, not single player. All of the good games that I've ever played on a PC have been centered around PvP. Bf1942, SC, Diablo 2, Counterstrike, etc. I think the only people that would appreciate a single player campaign are the die-hard battletech fans who know all the lore. Most people want a competetive game to play against other people in matches, scrimmages, tournaments, etc... Having a clan (a game clan, generic term) and all that goes with it is a really fun part of online games. Thats what keeps people coming back to the game, and on a F2P model it is the most important factor. I doubt they'll add any significant PvE into the game beyond fighting against bots. Personally, I can't understand the mentality behind wanting to fight against AI, it must take an introvert. There is no real challenge in fighting against a scripted AI to me so it all feels very hollow and just pointless.


Starcraft and Diablo 2 were centered around multi-player? It seems to me that both games, and their successors, had rather robust single-player campaigns. The only reason I bought either game was to play the campaigns, and I never even considered playing multi-player. Pointless PvP bores me. I want to be immersed in a universe I enjoy, not fight pointless battles against 133+P1Mp|\/|@$T/\

It's the same with every single Mechwarrior game I've bought. Never even considered playing the multi-player part of the game, because PvP is not, nor has ever been, a style of play I enjoy. I've got a builder-type personality, and I tend to enjoy those aspects of the game that others find "boring." I'm also a role-player, and far too often PvP attracts gamers who just want to blow stuff up. Throw in the fact that I tend to build characters as if they're real people in their game universe, and not a bunch of stats, skills, and equipment that need to be min-maxed, and you get someone who just doesn't have the personality to "thrive" at PvP.

On the other hand, purposeful PvP adds spice to a game. It adds an aspect to the game that isn't predictable, a layer that isn't scripted by the developers, and risk in the game that can't be completely managed. Way back when I played Ultima Online, I played a miner and smith... during the period of the game where the Player-Killers were running wild. I got PKed a lot, and I didn't mind a bit, because I tended to mine far from safety, and those were the risks of doing so. It also meant that I was a very successful miner and smith, since I didn't work in overmined areas. The day the game split into a "PvE world" and a "PvP world" was when my enjoyment of the game waned. Being one "sheep" in a herd menaced by wolves was fun. Being one "sheep" in a world filled with wolves was not.

So why am I continuing to follow a game that is purely PvP, if I don't completely enjoy it?

Because this is Battletech. This is a universe that I have enjoyed for over 25 years (wow!) This is a universe where I'd be willing to dish out $60 for another four hour single-player campaign where I break out my HOTAS and pilot a 10 meter tall robot into battle. This is a game universe where I enjoyed designing 'Mechs and then testing them with my gaming group far more than than the boardgame itself. This is a game universe where my gaming group spend far more time roleplaying in the Battletech universe outside of 'Mechs, playing techs, soldiers, spies, and dropship pilots, than we ever spent laying out game maps and controlling a lance of 'Mechs each. This is a universe whose novels I devoured as they came out, and I've revisisted time and time again until the covers started falling off. This is a universe where I enjoyed playing Jason Youngblood in the Crescent Hawk's Inception, and where I won the original Mechwarrior by buying Battlemechs in the 'Core, and selling them in the Periphery. This is a Universe where I spent several weeks building a Leopard Dropship in Minecraft, just because I was always curious about how cramped or roomy the ship really was.

I want this game to succeed. I want those corporate executives to see that the Mechwarrior fanbase is still alive and kicking. Because if it does, then maybe the next single-player game won't take 10 years to come out. And I hope that the community warfare in this game will be purposeful enough for me to enjoy the PvP part of the game, so I'll stick around and be willing to pump money into it. And I really hope that someday, if the game does succeed, that my character in the game will be able step out of that cockpit, and enjoy the other parts of the Battletech Universe that doesn't involve 10 meter tall robots blowing each other up.

#191 Dragon Lady

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:11 AM

View PostGangrel, on 02 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Has anyone played Battlestar? Its a F2P, PVP, where what you do does have an effect.

Just saying.

That's my current online game. I'm playing an asteroid miner, which is definitely PvE, but I have been involved in a few battles over the mining planetoids. I also tend to go four or five jumps out from home base, because the asteroid fields there aren't nearly as mined out as closer to home... probably because you're more likely to get jumped by the other side.

#192 Sternus

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

If they said no outright people would leave this game flat and they know it. They wont say it until they've milked the hopefuls.

#193 Anastasius

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

View PostSternus, on 27 November 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

If they said no outright people would leave this game flat and they know it. They wont say it until they've milked the hopefuls.


Necro troll hater?

Starved for attention irl?

#194 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:18 PM

They said it will be on the table later down the road if the game is successful. Right now their hands are full just trying to finish the game's PvP. We have missing variants, few maps, bad weapon balance, a totally broken economy, and only 1 game mode. All this needs to be addressed first. But hopefully they do put in some kind of PvE. I'd love to have 4person lance Co Op modes/missions vs Clanners with supped up Mechs/weapons. In fact I believe the whole point of their chosen timeline was for future Co Op vs Clan.

#195 Zanathan

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

Online games generally need to stick to a particular element to excel in them. One could argue some of the MMOs have PvP aspect but IMO it's not that crash hot when compared with it's PvE content.

If we had all the time in the world and everything was perfect, sure PGI could go down the PvE path but that is a lot of time and resources that they don't have. One needs to succeed and excel with PvP before moving on. I mean compare it with all the other titles people are comparing it to (LoL, WoT, etc) does it have PvE? No it doesn't.

#196 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

Actually League does have a Co Op mode and it's rather fun. It's Co Op vs bots and it's a great mode to practice heroes/builds in without people raging about you being a newb. They're also challenging to fight if you're mid leveled or not very good at the game. Their Co Op is great, but for a game like this one, I'd like actual scenarios/missions. There's so many things they could do, such as base defense/raids or convoy defense/raids. Having it be Inner Sphere vs Clan would make it be even better and fit the "Clan Invasion" time period they've selected. A game can definitely have both Zan... and most games do.

#197 Helbourne

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

This game is about as deep as the puddle outside my front door right now. I don't see it getting much deeper anytime soon. Sure there is talk about planets and such but right now its just PVP, IS vs IS. What happens when the Clan finally arrive? Do they start selling their tech to the IS? I mean there are a lot of posts here bashing PvE but I want those bashers to tell me, who plays Clan when they first start invading. The way its set up, right now, no one is Clan, no one has Clan tech. It will be so damn stupid if the devs just slap some really high Cbill / MC price tag on a Clan mech / Clan tech in the Mech Bay and say here you go. The story line will be a complete waste of time without some sort of PvE in the future. I know if they come out say it will never happen, I will stop playing all together. PvP and the Mech Bay are not nearly enough to keep a huge player base, I just do not see it.

#198 Zanathan

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

View PostBluten, on 27 November 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Actually League does have a Co Op mode and it's rather fun. It's Co Op vs bots and it's a great mode to practice heroes/builds in without people raging about you being a newb. They're also challenging to fight if you're mid leveled or not very good at the game. Their Co Op is great, but for a game like this one, I'd like actual scenarios/missions. There's so many things they could do, such as base defense/raids or convoy defense/raids. Having it be Inner Sphere vs Clan would make it be even better and fit the "Clan Invasion" time period they've selected. A game can definitely have both Zan... and most games do.


Thanks for enlightening me Bluten. Wasn't aware of the Co Op component. I might just check it out for the sake of it now =)

And yes I agree that a game can have both, I'm just concerned about splitting the focus so early on - long term sure anything is possible right?

Edited by Zanathan, 27 November 2012 - 08:51 PM.


#199 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:58 PM

View PostZanathan, on 27 November 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:


Thanks for enlightening me Bluten. Wasn't aware of the Co Op component. I might just check it out for the sake of it now =)

And yes I agree that a game can have both, I'm just concerned about splitting the focus so early on - long term sure anything is possible right?


Co Op in League has been around for quite a while, but it wasn't until a Jan 2012 or so patch that made it really good. They buffed up the A.I. and added a huge pile of new heroes for them to use. They also added them to Dominion and they are quite competent players on Intermediate mode. I long since quit that game but its Co Op is quite good. It gives you daily win and pays you reasonably too.(Less than PvP but still worth your time) I played their Co Op A LOT because it was less stressful than the actual PvP due to how many raging whining kids that game has.

Regarding their attention; it's not split yet. They said PvP first and that's what they're doing. They'll have to split up their focus sooner or later if they add both, but the PvP will be stable/finished first.

On a side note, TF2 also has Co Op now and it made me consider returning to that game to play it. I love Co Op scenarios/missions in a game.

#200 Helbourne

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

I for one do not mind the devs focusing on PvP. I can't imagine they have a huge operation going, being F2P there resources are limited. Just do not discount any PvE aspect. Get the PvP nailed down or should it be bolted down really good, then get to work on some good PvE. It can be done, anything is possible!





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