981 replies to this topic

[Tyzh]

It's not about "good" or "bad". It's about efficient use of things like armor distribution, engine size, and endo-steel. It wasn't my intention to make you feel looked down on, I was just trying to explain the changes I made. I'm sorry if you thought I was looking down on you.

Just wanna play, on 26 March 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

im not getting upset, im just trying to figure out what people think of as good, because that atlas was me thinking i knew, hows this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a186c778297d51

Mostly fine. In my RS, even with extensive firepower in the arms, it is very rare for them to be targeted and I spend a fair bit of effort trying to MAKE people shoot them instead of my torso. The only suggestion I have for that design is to shave a ton of armor off the arms to pick up another ton of SRM ammo.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ea17dbdc7f8dd92

Just wanna play, on 26 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

if you want an example of my usual build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5e5356db84a154b

This build is also optimized already for the large part. It has too much armor, though, and an unused heatsink space in the engine. Shaving the armor down in the arms and legs where it's not needed allows for another ton of SRM ammo and an extra DHS.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2f8838c55fa2c38

[ZeProme]

Just wanna play, on 26 March 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

real quick, what is your focus with that mech??? mobility, firepower, defense, heat efficiency, if you want, number them from order of importance 1-4, mean while i will look for basic upgrades

If you are addressing me, I really don't know to be honest. I keep the mindset of this mech's purpose as stated by the wiki:

The CN9-A carries a loadout of weapons that does increasing damage as it closes. The LRM 10 gives it long range reach and the AC/10 & Medium Lasers give it a good punch at medium and close range. Its good balance of armor, firepower, and speed make an excellent general purpose Medium mech.

From stock, it plays as how its described. Eventually, I realize it's performance in mid to close range battles are lacking. I wanted to sneak in a SRM for added bonus to firepower.

My real focus? Versatility I guess.

Mobility 2-3?/4
Firepower 3/4
Defense 2/4 (It's not potent enough to absorb damage. I wanted to fit in the fibrous armor but I got no slots left )
Heat Efficiency 2-3?/4 (I didn't have much problems with it. In long out fights after firing 3 - 5 volleys of weapons I get shutdown which also depends on the map)

Edited by ZeProme, 26 March 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Gidonihah]

ZeProne: Ac10 is better than a LBX10 generally, And UltraAC5s are most dependable when in multiples. Switching to either would however give you room to improve that dismal Engine.

Your Centurion is a bit all over the place, A single SRM2 doesnt do much except bother you with SRM firing dynamics, too many weapon groups can decrease a mechs efficiency. You could swap the SRM 2 and its ammo for another Lrm5. If you were willing to part with the AMS and the SRM2 I think we could upgrade your engine to a 250 by Removing both DHS (Net loss of 0 DHS).
Otherwise you have made good use of Mechspace and it cant be improved without changing weapon loadout.

Carcerifex: Only change I would recommend is Ammo placement, having the SRM Ammo with the SRMS is dangerous, stick one in the head, and maybe the others in the arms.
Also you may want to put that ECM in the centertorso, unless you value it more as a damage sponge for the AC20 over its use as a ECM

Edited by Gidonihah, 26 March 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Just wanna play]

wait, at what range do you want to use it? close range brawling, close to mid range fights, longe range support?? mix of everything??

[Just wanna play]

that last question is for Carcerifex

[Just wanna play]

thx for the slight improvement Tyzh, that was the atlas i meant other people look down upon, saying its only good on paper, the first rs i showed, i frankly didn't like either, how good would you say my D variant is?? (the one with dual lbx10s) keep in mind its a brawler

[Gidonihah]

Your LBX ammo amounts are worringly low, you only have 1 ton per LBX, unless you plan on dieing after the first mech you fight that isnt enough.

A standard 300 is also a bit slow, brawlers want Speed if they can grab it to manuever and get into range quickly. Yes even Atlai like speed.

Firing all weapons (Only the medium lasers are vaguely long range) you will overheat extremely quickly.

All of these problems can be fixed by losing those Large Pulse Lasers, replace them with Larges, mediums, smalls or even Medium Pulse (Change the torso lasers to match). With the extra tonnage you can upgrade your engine and add more Ammo/ DHS

Or you could lose the SRMS I guess, that would also give you tonnage room that you need.

Edited by Gidonihah, 26 March 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[Tyzh]

ZeProme, on 26 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Overall, very decent mech IMO. I like to see your opinion about my first build, thanks!

Basically what Gid said about the UAC/5 and LBX. For the large part you did a fine job optimizing the design with the weapons and equipment you want on it. There's not much I can do without taking something(s) off. The only suggestion I'd have for the mech as you have it is to shave some armor off the legs to fill back up your very important Center Torso.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2c0bbeecb4aa56

If you are willing to part with the AMS, you can return your Center Torso armor values to full and upgrade the SRM2 to an SRM4 without shaving leg armor. The armor and extra SRMs would help with the close range fire power that you expressed as lacking, and in my humble opinion standing behind a rock or building will do more to protect you from LRMs than an AMS ever will.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bee2d8292367755

If you are willing to completely drop both the AMS and SRMs we can shave the leg armor down and add Ferro-Fibrous to fit a 245 standard engine significantly upgrading your speed.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a1bc94fa6dcd3d4

[Just wanna play]

well i thought i had to much srm ammo already, so i should switch that out for lbx ammo, how much ammo would you recommend for 2 lbxs?? and a 300 is fine for me, and i won't be alpha striking every second, i currently use the trial stalker 4n, and it has slightly worse heat efficiency, so im used to it, and i thought large pulse lasers had a longer optimum range then mediums, am i wrong?????

[Protection]

ZeProme, on 26 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

CN9-A-ZeProme-First-Mech-Build

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b7c1040226a454b

It's a nice Jack-of-all-Trades, but I mostly agree with everything Gidonihah said. It's as well optimized as it can be, but the SRM2 really feels out of place. You're going to waste time in combat trying to line up a missile shot for a measly 3 damage, all the while trying to land AC/10 rounds, medium laser blasts, and maybe even some LRM barrages if they are beyond 180 meters. Throwing in such a small weapon at the cost of having to aim a whole extra shot and mouse click -- the juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze.

So if you are okay with removing it, the simple thing to do is add one more LRM5: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4158d5ac4a8e360

And if you were alright with getting rid of the AMS, I was able to make it go about 10kph faster: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b8d2c3702cf5a9e (I also padded the torso armor a little more by shaving a bit off the legs - but it's your call on how to distribute armour)

Carcerifex, on 26 March 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

How bout this build?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2e47308164e7a14

It's mostly good - in fact it is almost identical to the Atlas build that we used for a few weeks in competitive play: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06eb198e8f90e1f

My only two real changes I would mention for your design are:

ECM really needs to be in the centre torso. If you lose your right torso - you lose the AC/20 and a Large Laser - which sucks, I know - but you still have one laser left and a powerfull missile barrage. But losing your ECM along with the AC/20 isn't necessary. A half of an Atlas is still a pretty dangerous mech, and ECM helps everyone on your team. Keep it in the CT where it's safest.

SRM ammo needs to come out of the side torso. Put one ton in the head and one ton in each arm, but leaving it in the side torso is basically having a dangerous bomb waiting to ignite a location that everyone will be shooting for anyway. No one will crit you in the head, and you will probably survive an ammo explosion in the arms - but in the torso you might not. Alternatively, you can strip a little more leg armour and put in a CASE.

[ZeProme]

Tyzh, on 26 March 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Basically what Gid said about the UAC/5 and LBX. For the large part you did a fine job optimizing the design with the weapons and equipment you want on it. There's not much I can do without taking something(s) off. The only suggestion I'd have for the mech as you have it is to shave some armor off the legs to fill back up your very important Center Torso.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2c0bbeecb4aa56

I like some more information about the pros and cons of the UAC/5 and the LBX. I looked over the properties of both weapons. Comparing the LBX with the AC/10, the LBX has better pros than the AC/10. LBX has better heat management (LBX: 2, AC/10: 3), better optimal range (540m vs 450m), better maximum range (1980m vs 1350m), and lower weight (11 tons vs 12 tons) and critical slot requirements (6 slots vs 7 slots) while having the same stats in other criterias. The only con I can think of is it's hefty price at 800k.

Comparing with the UAC/5 and the AC/10, the UAC/5 has a lot of things better than the AC/10 (Which I won't list cause I'm lazy to gather information) except for jamming I assume.

Link to autocannons for easier information access: http://mwowiki.org/wiki/AC/10#AC.2F10

Quote

If you are willing to part with the AMS, you can return your Center Torso armor values to full and upgrade the SRM2 to an SRM4 without shaving leg armor. The armor and extra SRMs would help with the close range fire power that you expressed as lacking, and in my humble opinion standing behind a rock or building will do more to protect you from LRMs than an AMS ever will.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bee2d8292367755

I was thinking about that earlier with a Streak SRM loadout since the difference between the Streak SRM and the SRM is 0.5 ton. The 0.5 ton difference was the key to deciding whether or not I should use AMSs. I tried SSRM but they were annoying against ECM users since you need to lock in order to fire. The extra ton was used for SSRM ammo.

However, you do have a valid point. AMSs can also be substituted for taking shelter behind mountains or hills. Fact is, in my recent weeks of playing, I noticed that I'm a lot less prone to missile lock if I stick in a group. Say if I'm with an Atlas, a Catapult and a JagerMech, I'm less likely to be targetted by missiles.

My reasoning with the AMS systems is obviously to protect myself from missiles, but to be versatile in that I can provide AMS protection for my allies. Of course, this right now conflicts with my build as I am trying to make my Centurion CN9-A better.

Over time, I come to realize that AMSs are useless when you can take positions behind hills. Maybe it would be better for bigger mechs such as the Stalker which can employ 2 AMSs.

I will try out your suggestion. Drop the SRM 2 for SRM 4 and the AMS for better armor and more firepower at close range. I will also try to sneak in a bigger engine as well.

Many thanks!

Edited by ZeProme, 26 March 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[Gidonihah]

Alright Ill give you Pro Con for the autocannons

LBX: Optimal range is NOT the stated range, its actually sub 200, making the LBX close range only. The reason for this is that the bullet spread reduces the damage significantly at higher ranges, at close range you can pepper the opponent with your shot, no pinpoint damage unless you are at litterally pointblank range.

Basically the LBX10 is a shotgun. Normal Ac10 is a Rifle, they have different purposes.

UltraAc5: Higher DPS over time, higher range and projectile velocity, weighs less, less burst damage and less dependable. If it jams at a bad time you are in trouble.

Edited by Gidonihah, 26 March 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[ZeProme]

Protection, on 26 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

It's a nice Jack-of-all-Trades, but I mostly agree with everything Gidonihah said. It's as well optimized as it can be, but the SRM2 really feels out of place. You're going to waste time in combat trying to line up a missile shot for a measly 3 damage, all the while trying to land AC/10 rounds, medium laser blasts, and maybe even some LRM barrages if they are beyond 180 meters. Throwing in such a small weapon at the cost of having to aim a whole extra shot and mouse click -- the juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze.

Yes, I agree as well. SRM 2 does feel... lacking.

Well, my reasoning behind the SRM 2 is to give my CN9-A extra punch in close quarter battles while giving my mech the tonnage to use AMS.

Quote

So if you are okay with removing it, the simple thing to do is add one more LRM5: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4158d5ac4a8e360

And if you were alright with getting rid of the AMS, I was able to make it go about 10kph faster: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b8d2c3702cf5a9e (I also padded the torso armor a little more by shaving a bit off the legs - but it's your call on how to distribute armour)

Or add a SRM 4. I think with 360 LRM rockets (each volley is 10 missiles) that's plenty to use. LRM is considered UP from what I heard because of recent LRM balancing. So I'm not too reliant on having an extra LRM.

Yes, I'm planning to get rid of the AMS as well. As explained earlier it's not very beneficial for my mech.

Now my dilemma is whether I should have more close range firepower or more mobility and armor... Hmm, decisions decisions.

Thanks though

Gidonihah, on 26 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Alright Ill give you Pro Con for the autocannons

LBX: Optimal range is NOT the stated range, its actually sub 200, making the LBX close range only. The reason for this is that the bullet spread reduces the damage significantly at higher ranges, at close range you can pepper the opponent with your shot, no pinpoint damage unless you are at litterally pointblank range.

Basically the LBX10 is a shotgun. Normal Ac10 is a Rifle, they have different purposes.

UltraAc5: Higher DPS over time, higher range and projectile velocity, weighs less, less burst damage and less dependable. If it jams at a bad time you are in trouble.

Then it's settled. The AC/10 is the gun I will keep for the CN9-A.

LBX10 is probably more suited for mechs like cataphract that requires brawling and close distance to be effective.

Ultra Ac5s works better in groups with other ACs right? Cataphract again especially the IM and 4x variant.

Edited by ZeProme, 26 March 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[Protection]

Missile damage changes with the wind around here.

Five days ago, LRMs were a holy terror. Now they are a little lackluster.

Also, from January until last Thursday, SRMs were far and away the deadliest weapon in the game. Now they are way, way softer.

PGI have been really bad at balancing the missile weapons - always going from too strong to too weak with almost every other patch.

[Nicholas Steiner]

this is what I was using before the patch with sucess
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a93941fa051b3c5

and here's what I'm thinking of switching too
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...754399595e6b001

what are your thoughts? I know it's a little crazy to have two different types of srms, but my machine's not the best and its hard for me to get solid hits with pain srms constantly.

[ZeProme]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...740a33b7be687b6
CPLT-A1-ZeProme-Artemis-LRMnSRM

What do you think of this build? I have the Catapult CPT-A1 variant but given the price it is really expensive, maybe not fit for regular pugging. Oh yeah, I notice that the energy efficiency is terrible still new to this mech lab. XD

Can anyone give me a rough guide line for SRM and LRM boat? Both artemis and non-artemis? Cause I'm a bit annoyed by unable to defend myself in close combat.

I tended this to be a missile boat but so far it's not working well for me. Thanks!

Better and finalized version of my CN9-A: CN9-A-ZeProme-Modified-CN9-A

Edited by ZeProme, 26 March 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[Umbravox]

Nothing is sacred to this build. I just want to run a tbt-7m that is mobile and has enough killing power that it isnt forced into a pure fire support role.

Thanks =)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...045ba8f961a128f

[Edward Scissorhands]

Hey was wondering what u thought of this build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c2bee35da640ce9

I have a few comments about the build itself, as i feel that after lots of testing that this is the best all around SR Stalker around, and most durable of any viable stalker build out there.

1 - STD 310 is the only engine out there for a short range stalker. XL is too weak and the weight reduction is a waste given heat/slot/risk factors. I tinkered around with XL 255, STD 255, and STD 275. The 310 in my opinion gives you that little extra you need when being circled by a light and makes it the best choice imo. 59.1kph Hell Ya!.

2 - 6 x Medium Lasers 30 DMG, 6 6lots, 6tons, 24 total heat at 270 range, seems pretty solid to me especially with 4 x Streak SRM 2 to back them up. I tried going to 4 x lrg pulse laser with and engine downgrade, along with a few other things but nothing seemed to come close as effective as this. With the currect load out 6x medium lasers and 4x streak srm 2 i still ahve an impressive 1.16 heat efficiency rating.

3 - Dual AMS, why else buy this chasis?, espcially as it only cost 1.5 tons of space (ammo included).

4 - Beagle Active Probe. Honestly... In the year were playing in every mech should have one as a .5 or 1 ton chasis staple. I dont know what everone else think but this is a huge plus especially for picking up data and sniping components quicker.

5 - Module Cool shots, 360 targeting, or target decay. not sure which is best at this point. Gxp and 6mil in c-bils is alot considering how much Ive already spent lol.

6 - Armor 2 in the front 1 in the back is pretty standard for most mechs.

7- Upgrades - Endo - Steel give the extra 4 tons needed for the build and taking up 14 unused slots. Artemis is there just cuz i bought it and couldnt stand to sell after deciding that streak srms were the best choice.

anyways i hope im going in the right direction with this. any feedback would be great.

Skeddie Fallen

edit - fixed link

Edited by Skeddie Fallen, 26 March 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[Gidonihah]

STK-5S

Removed EndoSteel replaced with DHS. In this situation DHS saves alot more tonnage and allows your mech to run quite a bit cooler, I also added anouther ton of Streak ammo and anouther ton of AMS.

Overall Changes
Heat efficiency improved from 33% to 44%

Max Sustained Damage increased from 3.61 to 4.81

2Tons of Ammo added

Shifted BAP to safer location and to make room for another DHS

0.6 tons left over. (With a bit of Leg armor stripping another ton of Ammo..but doesn't seem necessary)

Edited by Gidonihah, 26 March 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Edward Scissorhands]

Gidonihah, on 26 March 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

STK-5S

Removed EndoSteel replaced with DHS. In this situation DHS saves alot more tonnage and allows your mech to run quite a bit cooler, I also added anouther ton of Streak ammo and anouther ton of AMS.

Thank you very much. Do you have any other comments about the build? do you feel this is the right weapon/ engine set-up for what it seems i am tring to do ? Is Beagle active probe making as much difference as i think it is? Etc.



edit:
I also notice what a huge difference in sustained dps it made. 3.61 to 4.81 is huge

Edited by Skeddie Fallen, 26 March 2013 - 06:39 PM.