236 replies to this topic

[LordRush]

Peiper, on 26 March 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Other than some rather smart debates on game balance and some heated debates on ECM that shouldn't even be necessary, the core knows EXACTLY what it wants, and the majority isn't silent at all. We want community warfare with a malleable map of the inner sphere where our efforts mean something. We want lobbies so we can set up leagues, matches, and fair fights. We want ECM fixed (the majority still do). We don't want gold ammo/consumables or 3rd person. We want role warfare. We want more maps and game types/modes.

3rd person has no place in a simulator, but in something like the testing grounds/tutorials it would go a long way for people to learn to visualize torso/leg movement. Us old hats, and those of us who know what joystick twist and/or pedals are for take it for granted, but new people should have some obstacle courses and firing ranges with tin ducks moving along to shoot at. What we do need is rear-view cameras, and the ability to look left and right with the hat on our joysticks like MW4. Crisis may not allow it, but the lack of peripheral vision hurts. Still, this game is a battletech simulator, and not just another shooter.

The devs have finally brought LRM's and streaks down to some semblance of balance, and they have listened to us and altered their short-sighted ideas for gold-coolant, which is great! ECM is still totally FUBAR. We have some great new maps, fantastic netcode fixes and state-rewind is moving along smoothly. The game, overall, runs smoother on everyone's system compared to 4 months ago and they've made many, many improvements.

Those of us who play every day see changes happening rather slowly, but my friends who are returning to see the changes are stunned and impressed. CW and lobbies/private matches will bring everyone back, along with bring in droves of people sitting around waiting for the game to be more complete before they dive into it. It IS BETA.

Yeah, waiting for the roadmaps for the next couple months is agonizing. The game is at a place where we can have some great lobby organized games and matches out there, and the players are frustrated as all-get-out waiting for this to happen.

But, if PGI really said that the core doesn't know what it wants, then they are either monumentally sarcastic, or seriously out of touch with their BETA testers.

All you need to do is see the PAX video that is on here...It is a doozy. And no, they were NOT being sarcastic

[Vassago Rain]

Peiper, on 26 March 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Other than some rather smart debates on game balance and some heated debates on ECM that shouldn't even be necessary, the core knows EXACTLY what it wants, and the majority isn't silent at all. We want community warfare with a malleable map of the inner sphere where our efforts mean something. We want lobbies so we can set up leagues, matches, and fair fights. We want ECM fixed (the majority still do). We don't want gold ammo/consumables or 3rd person. We want role warfare. We want more maps and game types/modes.

3rd person has no place in a simulator, but in something like the testing grounds/tutorials it would go a long way for people to learn to visualize torso/leg movement. Us old hats, and those of us who know what joystick twist and/or pedals are for take it for granted, but new people should have some obstacle courses and firing ranges with tin ducks moving along to shoot at. What we do need is rear-view cameras, and the ability to look left and right with the hat on our joysticks like MW4. Crisis may not allow it, but the lack of peripheral vision hurts. Still, this game is a battletech simulator, and not just another shooter.

The devs have finally brought LRM's and streaks down to some semblance of balance, and they have listened to us and altered their short-sighted ideas for gold-coolant, which is great! ECM is still totally FUBAR. We have some great new maps, fantastic netcode fixes and state-rewind is moving along smoothly. The game, overall, runs smoother on everyone's system compared to 4 months ago and they've made many, many improvements.

Those of us who play every day see changes happening rather slowly, but my friends who are returning to see the changes are stunned and impressed. CW and lobbies/private matches will bring everyone back, along with bring in droves of people sitting around waiting for the game to be more complete before they dive into it. It IS BETA.

Yeah, waiting for the roadmaps for the next couple months is agonizing. The game is at a place where we can have some great lobby organized games and matches out there, and the players are frustrated as all-get-out waiting for this to happen.

But, if PGI really said that the core doesn't know what it wants, then they are either monumentally sarcastic, or seriously out of touch with their BETA testers.

They really did say this in the 3rd person threads. For real really seriously. Everything got so hostile and embarrassing, I did something else for the weekend.

[Zylo]

Vassago Rain, on 26 March 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

It's just a joke, like we used to joke about goldsinks and rental clan mechs. I feel both sides are acting outright stupid. There shouldn't be any crazy conspiracy theories going, but at the same time, we shouldn't have to live with a literal 3rd person sword of damocles hanging above our heads.

It's only a joke until they actually do it though. Considering PGI's record of moving away from the original design of the game what is a joke today could be in the game 6 months from now.

I hope PGI at least has the sense to continue offering content purchased by both C-bills and MC while trying to encourage the purchase of a subscription vs selling more consumed items.

It seems by removing the repair/rearm costs PGI forced the use of consumables as a C-bill sink. Without a C-bill sink how many players actually needed to buy anything with MC other than mech bays and hero mechs?

[Hayashi]

Peiper, on 26 March 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Other than some rather smart debates on game balance and some heated debates on ECM that shouldn't even be necessary, the core knows EXACTLY what it wants, and the majority isn't silent at all.

Just a point here. The majority actually is silent, they're not posting on the forums at all, or posting extremely little. There are accounts we can't trace for not having made a single post on the forums and such.

It is that of the minority that are not silent, an overwhelming number of them have similar views - that of not wanting third person, and wanting an ECM nerf. This number includes me, but as this is ~90+% of the vocal playerbase that should hardly come as a surprise (most likely people don't remember, but the JR7-D was originally slated to have ECM, and as one of the more experienced Jenner pilots out there I was one of the leaders of the movement to deny the JR7-D ECM). But we don't actually have any data to show for sure that the silent majority has a similar opinion distribution as the minority that post - it is simply that in the absence of data, it is more reasonable to assume the silent majority feels more or less the same way as the vocal minority does, than to assume otherwise.

Edited by Hayashi, 26 March 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Hayashi, on 26 March 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

Just a point here. The majority actually is silent, they're not posting on the forums at all, or posting extremely little. There are accounts we can't trace for not having made a single post on the forums and such.

It is that of the minority that are not silent, an overwhelming number of them have similar views - that of not wanting third person, and wanting an ECM nerf. This number includes me. But we don't actually have any data to show for sure that the silent majority has a similar opinion distribution as the minority that post - it is simply that in the absence of data, it is more reasonable to assume the silent majority feels more or less the same way as the vocal minority does, than to assume otherwise.

The people with these views coughed up 5 million to initially fund the game. I would listen to them, even if only to pay lipservice, if I were PGI.

[EvilCow]

So just to sum it up, we are a vocal minority, we don't know what we want (and that would not mean anything anyway) and there are REASONS.

(I liked that REASONS)

[Hayashi]

Vassago Rain, on 26 March 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

The people with these views coughed up 5 million to initially fund the game. I would listen to them, even if only to pay lipservice, if I were PGI.

About 3-4 million, the others are still silent. But similar to you, I would listen if I were PGI as well, except I'm not, so...

Does the silent majority actually support this ECM/3rd person direction? I've no idea, no data to support. All I can say is that while I do what I can to support the functioning of the game I do disagree with the direction in which a few things are heading... and it is more reasonable to assume that the nonvocal majority thinks the same way we do than otherwise. Nothing really confirmed or anything.

Edited by Hayashi, 26 March 2013 - 02:54 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Hayashi, on 26 March 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

About 3-4 million, the others are still silent. But similar to you, I would listen if I were PGI as well, except I'm not, so...

Does the silent majority actually support this ECM/3rd person direction? I've no idea, no data to support. All I can say is that while I do what I can to support the functioning of the game I do disagree with the direction in which a few things are heading.

'Silent majority' is a big reason my country's completely ruined on the political front. I have zero faith in it, and could just as well say that the silent majority isn't playing MWO because there's too little sim elements. We know for a fact there were enough old men and rich people to put 5 million into a dream. I would listen to these people, cater to their tiny, tiny, tiny interests (the much touted saving of the archon's daughter) while working on a new player experience.

Which is what we've told them since day 1...

Edited by Vassago Rain, 26 March 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[Zylo]

Hayashi, on 26 March 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

About 3-4 million, the others are still silent. But similar to you, I would listen if I were PGI as well, except I'm not, so...

Does the silent majority actually support this ECM/3rd person direction? I've no idea, no data to support. All I can say is that while I do what I can to support the functioning of the game I do disagree with the direction in which a few things are heading... and it is more reasonable to assume that the nonvocal majority thinks the same way we do than otherwise. Nothing really confirmed or anything.

PGI could easily add a link in game to a survey and offer a random MC reward for taking the time to complete the survey. Sure this idea was used by another game recently with an offer that was similar to 10k MC as a random reward. Even offering a single free mech bay would probably convince players to fill out the survey.

[King Arthur IV]

so because people on your friends list dont show up, that = the whole world is not playing????

you must have alot of friends then.


too be nice, bet you if you click launch now; you will sure find a game. your friends are just not on.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 26 March 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Hayashi]

There's just a little problem here though. We're starting to stray off topic. This thread is about whether the game population seems to be low. Whether it's a matchmaking effect (there seem to be less people because people are only matched to people of similar ELO classes, etc), a timezoning effect, a fatigue effect from the aftermath of grinding competitions, etc. It is starting to veer off course into a 'devs aren't listening' thread.

Remember that if we start speculating on reasons why people may be leaving the game, the discussion can potentially include ANYTHING in the game's existence from bugs to communication to patches to jagermech headboxes to LRM nerfing to lagshielding etc etc etc etc - and there are threads for every single one of those topics.

Stay on target...

Edited by Hayashi, 26 March 2013 - 03:04 AM.

[Kaelus]

Hayashi, on 26 March 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

About 3-4 million, the others are still silent. But similar to you, I would listen if I were PGI as well, except I'm not, so...

Does the silent majority actually support this ECM/3rd person direction? I've no idea, no data to support. All I can say is that while I do what I can to support the functioning of the game I do disagree with the direction in which a few things are heading... and it is more reasonable to assume that the nonvocal majority thinks the same way we do than otherwise. Nothing really confirmed or anything.

It doesn't matter, whether they do or not, they will shoehorn it in regardless of what the original player-base wants, so they can "grow the brand" (their words). Instead of, you know making a fun and stable game they will try to appeal to be all things to all players and continue to sell things and pretend it's a beta. They have told us flatout our opinion doesn't matter and that they will do whatever they desire. I don't know if it's their corporate overlords or not but it feels and smells corporate. Kinda like coolant shot, I never once saw a poll asking me what I thought. It's simply what they think. That's why we are frustrated. I know I have been playing less because of it.

[Kaelus]

Hayashi, on 26 March 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

There's just a little problem here though. We're starting to stray off topic. This thread is about whether the game population seems to be low. Whether it's a matchmaking effect (there seem to be less people because people are only matched to people of similar ELO classes, etc), a timezoning effect, a fatigue effect from the aftermath of grinding competitions, etc. It is starting to veer off course into a 'devs aren't listening' thread.

Remember that if we start speculating on reasons why people may be leaving the game, the discussion can potentially include ANYTHING in the game's existence from bugs to communication to patches to jagermech headboxes to LRM nerfing to lagshielding etc etc etc etc - and there are threads for every single one of those topics.

Stay on target...

Good point, my personal feel is that since they invalidated two weapons at present, SRMS and LRMS. They have even a smaller pool of weapons that are viable now. I miss my SRMS, seeing LRMS on the field are a joke as well. "INCOMING MISSILE" might as well read "free kill" kinda sad really. I prefer to brawl and SRMS were my main weapon of choice, so that's currently dead as they have no punch. That is my guess on that particular issue.

Edited by Kaelus, 26 March 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Kaelus, on 26 March 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

It doesn't matter, whether they do or not, they will shoehorn it in regardless of what the original player-base wants, so they can "grow the brand" (their words). Instead of, you know making a fun and stable game they will try to appeal to be all things to all players and continue to sell things and pretend it's a beta. They have told us flatout our opinion doesn't matter and that they will do whatever they desire. I don't know if it's their corporate overlords or not but it feels and smells corporate. Kinda like coolant shot, I never once saw a poll asking me what I thought. It's simply what they think. That's why we are frustrated. I know I have been playing less because of it.

It's actually called coolant flush on your stats page.
Coolant flush primary, coolant flush secondary.

[Lugh]

crashtastic ness leads to me not playing at all. If free to play people come to a game and they crash to the desktop, lock up or crash out to mechlab 80% of the time and they spend time trying ALL the fixes listed in the workarounds and it doesn't get any better ....

It's uninstall and walk away. Nothing said.

[bloodnor]

were over here

\0/ \0/ \0/ _0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0_ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/\0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/
\0/ \0_ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0_ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/
\0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/
\0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/
\0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/ \0/

Edited by bloodnor, 26 March 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Michael Costanza]

Vassago Rain, on 26 March 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

It's just a joke, like we used to joke about goldsinks and rental clan mechs. I feel both sides are acting outright stupid. There shouldn't be any crazy conspiracy theories going, but at the same time, we shouldn't have to live with a literal 3rd person sword of damocles hanging above our heads.

With all your doom and gloom, you haven't provided a single link to a quote.

Still griping about the cheesiness of double heat sinks?

[I am]

Where has the population gone? Alot of players have left? Maybe alot of players are sick of one sided matches. Considering:

how many damage a weapon can potentially do, ac20 (20 dmg), and that you can carry two, 2x20=40.

Combine that with a team of friends (4 man) and thats about 160 dmg yield from a group of friends who are focusing their fire.

then take into account my armor is max CT around 98-100, thats on my best mech.

Thats one volley to erase the toughest mech in the game, provided they get the drop on me.

-Alternative comparison- 4 friends running Raven 3Ls in conquest outcapping a team in a few minutes.

Either way, the single player is in trouble. Now, if that single player is new, has bad mechs, cant grasp in game mechanics like heat, is learning weapons, etc... its magnified.

Same problem when it was all missle spam. Everything is magnified by 4 griefers using maxed out builds.

You can say newbies need to learn to play, or how dare I QQ on team tactics in a team game, but the effect is the same. Its new and bad players getting their clocks cleaned till they move on. Thats where alot of your casual, potential new players have gone.

As for the hard core fan base? No clue. Im not one of them, so I cant speak for them. However for the solo player, I can tell you that by and large the reason that less people are playing is, the hardcore fan base. They are rude, and create imbalanced matches for their own enjoyment.

Farming in 4 mans, it must really be that fun huh? You guys just cant quit on it no matter how much it hurts the community.

Edited by I am, 26 March 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[Dmitri Valenov]

Vassago Rain, on 26 March 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

The core players don't matter. The core doesn't know what it wants. We must improve the new player experience, by adding 3rd person for REASONS. We're adding 3rd person, and that's just how it is. Coolant shots are here to stay. Gold artillery. No news forever.

Etc.

Where did they say they were adding third person play? I can't find it mentioned anywhere.

[Kaelus]

Dmitri Valenov, on 26 March 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

Where did they say they were adding third person play? I can't find it mentioned anywhere.

Here
http://mwomercs.com/...095-3rd-person/

The first part of the OP that Bryan made.

"Posted by Bryan Ekman on 21 March 2013 - 04:38 PM in Hot Topic Heatsink
Here are the facts.
Yes we are currently working on a 3rd person option for MWO.


There is no ETA for when 3rd person will be available."

It's not an if, it's a when.