63 replies to this topic

[WVAnonymous]

I enjoy Dragons as is, willing to test the physics of 60 tons * 105 kph = big kinetic energy crunch.

I also have an Awesome 9M with a 385XL, and I want to test the physics of 80 tons * 85 kph = big momentum crunch.

(I also want to run two 140 kph Spiders headlong into each other just to see if they explode.)

[Roughneck45]

Yes, when it comes to collisions dragons should have the upperhand.

Not necessarily against assaults, but other heavies and smaller mechs, absolutely.

Bare minimum, it needs to be very resistant to being knocked over. The fluff for this mech clearly states that its large CT gives it a lower center of gravity making it difficult to knock over.

It doesnt need to be dragon bowling like it was in closed beta, but it does need to be better than the other mechs in collisions.

Edited by Roughneck45, 27 March 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Necro]

Ramming? That would be so much more win:

[Davers]

Protection, on 27 March 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Is such a thing even possible?

Honestly, probably not.

The Dragon is one of those mechs that work well in TT, but don't have the right hard points to be as competitive as it's other Heavy brothers.

[Cferre]

Dragon Punch!!!



On a serious note. Yes, it would give the dragon some purpose, really.

Edited by Cferre, 27 March 2013 - 07:51 PM.

[Firelizard]

Point of fact:

The dragons did not have a ramming 'bonus'. They had a ramming bug associated with their geometry. That was part of the reason collisions were turned off in the first place. The other part being 'stunlocking'

[Merky Merc]

All of this ramming nonsense is going to be ridiculous when it's re-implemented. Heavy/assault pilots that get all giddy thinking about running over lights still won't be able to as they run 60+ kph faster than you. It's going to wreck medium mechs even more and lead to some really stupid games if it's put back in like it was in CB.

WTB BT 2.0 where **** makes sense.

[Firelizard]

Merky Merc, on 27 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

All of this ramming nonsense is going to be ridiculous when it's re-implemented. Heavy/assault pilots that get all giddy thinking about running over lights still won't be able to as they run 60+ kph faster than you. It's going to wreck medium mechs even more and lead to some really stupid games if it's put back in like it was in CB.

WTB BT 2.0 where **** makes sense.

Assault pilots 'get all giddy' less from the concept of them ramming the light mechs, and more from the concept of the less skilled light mechs ramming into them, getting into a fight with Newton's Third Law, and losing.


EDIT: Wrong law

Edited by Firelizard, 27 March 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Honestly, I don't think I'll ever expect my Stalker to be able to chase down a Jenner or Raven or Commando and ram them into the ground. What I am looking forward to is them trying to facehug me and knocking themselves on their arse in front of me. The only thing more satisfying would be if we could then punt them across the horizon never to be seen again.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 27 March 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[QuantumButler]

Letting it bowl over all would be silly, but giving it the ramming power of say, a 80 tonner, possibly allowing it to bowl over Atlases if it goes fast enough, but causing both the dragon and the Atlas to fall over? That could be a good balance.

Really it shold be able to knock most things down, but not be able to just keep going to walk through whatever it knocked down, it should probably fall over a lot more often when it knocks over bigger mechs.

Edited by QuantumButler, 27 March 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[Major Derps]

hashinshin, on 27 March 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Since, really, the Dragon seriously does need its big "I can knock over an Atlas" ramming power to be a good mech again.

As long as the damage it receives as a consequence is scaled correctly (unlike previously), I don't see why not.

Firelizard, on 27 March 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Assault pilots 'get all giddy' less from the concept of them ramming the light mechs, and more from the concept of the less skilled light mechs ramming into them, getting into a fight with Newton's Third Law, and losing.


EDIT: Wrong law

I 'get all giddy', at the thought of my giant atlas fists finally being useful.

[Dukarriope]

According to Sarna, Dragons are traditionally difficult to knock down due to their squat design. That is, they're short and wide.

[EitherWay]

Actually, shouldn't knockdowns come back soon because of highlander and DFA?

[Voidsinger]

People forget the deliberate slanting in CB towards heavier mechs having a huge edge in any collision situation.

Imagine any of the following factors coming into play:
- Kinetic energy of colliding mechs.
- Hands helping recovery times
- Jump Jets helping recovery times
- A light rising before the heavy (as they usually should).
- No predetermined advantage for mass.

Yes, the picture gets far uglier for the gloating assaults.

That said, I think Host State Rewind needs to be used for collision initiation determination versus a scrape.

[Terror Teddy]

pffft.

collision should be a calculation between Speed, Mass and weight.

they should also add damage from collision with terrain, after all, we do take damage from falling from a high heighto why not when unning 120km/ hour into a rock wall.

[Voidsinger]

Terror Teddy, on 27 March 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

pffft.

collision should be a calculation between Speed, Mass and weight.

they should also add damage from collision with terrain, after all, we do take damage from falling from a high heighto why not when unning 120km/ hour into a rock wall.

I agree on your basis for Collisions.

Use Host State Rewind so pings don't become critical, and I agree with Terrain Collisions doing damage.

Just remember the justification PGI used for favouring heavies last time. "In the interests of Player Enjoyment."

That one also was why Repair and Rearm were removed (That disgusted me, while they needed some reform, removal sucked. The Assault and LRM lobbies won that one).

[Merky Merc]

EitherWay, on 27 March 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Actually, shouldn't knockdowns come back soon because of highlander and DFA?

You can do 1 damage right now with a DFA attack. It is just enough for a trolly/lucky killing blow on an enemy mech.

I have yet to see an argument that affects lights who, in my experience, are not facehugging and does not affect mediums which are typically slower or the same speed as heavies. If we do not have a time jump forward soon I fear that my preferred class of mech is going to completely obsolete. As it is I currently ride around in only CTFs and my K2 as medium mechs are largely irrelevant as is.

[Erasus Magnus]

if they reintroduce ramming, there should be a severe drawback for ramming others. like taken lots of damage. imagine a 60 ton robot, cruising with 100kph, is ramming another robot that walks against it with 50 kph. the impact is that of a vehicle, ramming a steel wall with 150 kph.

it should barely be able to walk home on its own after this.

[Terror Teddy]

Merky Merc, on 27 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

All of this ramming nonsense is going to be ridiculous when it's re-implemented. Heavy/assault pilots that get all giddy thinking about running over lights still won't be able to as they run 60+ kph faster than you. It's going to wreck medium mechs even more and lead to some really stupid games if it's put back in like it was in CB.

WTB BT 2.0 where **** makes sense.

If done right no-one in their right mind would WANT to collidr with someone else.

What would happen to the legs of an Atlas if a 35 tonne vehicle/weight slams into it at 140km/h?

Answer: it would loose its legs and topple over as the 35 tonner pulverizes itself and its reactor core goes critical.

Bowling over lighter OR heavier mechs is not something that should be a tactic in this game.

Ramming anyone should have associate risks with it.

[QuantumButler]

I just feel that giving the dragon some sort of collision based bonus quirk would help differentiate the chassis from other meadiums and heavies, because let's be honest, the dragon chassis in general under performs.

Now it doesn't have to be being able to bowl over anything, perhaps even just make it count as a 70 tonner instead of 60 tonner for collision purposes+ make it take slightly less collision damage? Like say, 5%? Something not unbalancing but significant enough to make up for the general lackluster hard points and hitboxes