163 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

Theodor Kling, on 17 April 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

The NSS should remain ingame nevertheless, as an additional pice of equipment ( and probably reserved for a few specialised mechs, like well.. only the raven so far I think).

With NSS coming in at the right game year that is not 3050.

Wicksman, on 17 April 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

It's amazing how few ECM's you see in an average drop considering how overpowered people seem to think it is.

The way its being described here there should be around 14 mechs with ECM in every drop.... But there isnt? Why isnt there?

In fact I've been strolling around in a streakcat for my last few drops and havn't had any real issues avoiding ECM........ People have adapted, move on.

You don't need 14 of them to see it is OP, the Stealth effect is an advantage even with only a few and that is part of the proof it is OP.

A good portion of the argument for Stealth was the effect of LRMs, with the nerf, that is gone.

Kill ECM Stealth.

For those who talk about skill based weapons, you should be playing this game: http://www.maniaplanet.com/shootmania

This is not ShootMania Online.

Edited by Merchant, 17 April 2013 - 07:40 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Strum Wealh, on 17 April 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

MWO's implementation of Guardian doesn't prevent LOS visual targeting, either - it does nothing to stop one from tracking a target with their own eyes, placing the reticle over a visually-acquired target, and firing a direct-fire or dumbfire-capable weapon (either or both of which, at this point, describes all but one weapon system in the game) at said target.

What it does do, though, is significantly reduce the degree to which the 'Mech is able to acquire and track targets for the player, as opposed to said player having to perform those tasks themselves - and the 'Mech's ability to do that is logically tied to the capabilities of the 'Mech's sensors.
The player being able to see and track a target (LOS/visual targeting) and the 'Mech being able to "see" and track a target (sensor/radar targeting) are two separate (albeit related and intertwined) things - and Guardian's job is to interfere with the latter.

And on MWLL's implementation of Guardian:
It looks less like MWO's Guardian being "over-modeled" and more like MWLL's Guardian being generally "under-modeled"...

Since I am more aware of MW:LL's balance measures and have played the game, and I knew you would respond, please feel free to let me know your expertise on MW:LL.

GECM + Passive Radar makes you undetectable to 0M in MW:LL. Doing this also stacks missile lock on time. Any Mech Can still A. Fire Direct Weapons At You (DUH) or B. Point at YOU if they are in LOS and achieve a LOCK for missiles EVENTUALLY. (the range of combat is also 2x that of MWO)

What is not to like with that? It is an enhanced format of MW3/4 ECM, with more passive benefits. Its worth using as a scouting tool.

"Omgosh, what General Taskeen, you can actually radar stealth around the battlefield in a Mech game, but I can't exploit-ecm-brawl if someone see's me they can use any weapon against me? What sorcery is this?"

Yup. Balance my friend. ECM does not prevent LOS visual LOCK targeting.

It is not under-modeled, it is balanced in a purely better format. You have come used to a poorly developed, and exploitable system (AKA, The Hostage of PGI's bad balance mechanics) and do not see the obvious problems with it.

I never said MWO's GECM prevents LOS Visual HITTING. You have no common sense. If you want NSS for the "all but short range detection," then do your part and request it, it takes up a crit spot in each Mech hit location and runs at 10 heat when active.

Edited by General Taskeen, 17 April 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Jonathan Paine]

I want them to do this to ECM:
Guardian ECM 1.5 tons
Angel ECM 1.5 tons
Stealth Armor: 16 critical slots.

Do all, keep current ECM functionality.

Thoughts?

[Prezimonto]

I think that would got a long way to balancing the current system. Too bad NSS is much later in the timeline. It also cost the mech 10heat overhead to run. Not insignificant for a small mech without extra heat sinks.

I wouldn't mind seeing heat as the balancing factor for ECM... the more mechs you mask with it's effects the closer to shut down you run constantly up to some relatively high (say 50 to 75% of 10 single heat sinks) for a full 12 man team. Then let the pilots choose to GECM suite if they don't want to deal with the heat.

The biggest problem right now is that there is purely no downside to having one relative to the massive benefit you receive for your whole team. All the other electronics add-ons and what-nots have very limited benefits are weigh in as much or more in terms of total weight penalty.

Edited by Prezimonto, 17 April 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[CancR]

Prezimonto, on 17 April 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

I think that would got a long way to balancing the current system. Too bad NSS is much later in the timeline. It also cost the mech 10heat overhead to run. Not insignificant for a small mech without extra heat sinks.

I wouldn't mind seeing heat as the balancing factor for ECM... the more mechs you mask with it's effects the closer to shut down you run constantly up to some relatively high (say 50 to 75% of 10 single heat sinks) for a full 12 man team. Then let the pilots choose to GECM suite if they don't want to deal with the heat.

The biggest problem right now is that there is purely no downside to having one relative to the massive benefit you receive for your whole team. All the other electronics add-ons and what-nots have very limited benefits are weigh in as much or more in terms of total weight penalty.

Exactly, which is why I want to check PGI's accreditation to make sure they are not printed on the back of a Mc Donalds menu.

[WidowMaker91]

CancR, on 28 March 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

It's really simple. We are sick of ECm being a Frankenstein of all the ecm suites, which, surprise, surprise, is broken.

If you want to have ecm be all the ecms, then also make it the 4.5 tons, requiring a command console, and taking up 4x the slots.

Guardian ECM should only
-Increase lock on time for missiles
-Decrease range where you can detect mechs
-In air missiles lose lock at random intervals (Which can be negated by target decay)
TAKE OUT
-Null Sig
-no missile locks

ECM was a OP solution to an OP problem, and now its time to start rolling back mistakes and actually start balancing the game in a sustainable way.

please

[Smk]

You have my like. ECM is just too all encompassing as it is.

[CancR]

Up to 70 likes! Keepit up, fight the good fight. For Mechwarrior!

[CancR]

Keep the dream alive. Send this to your friends to get the 100 likes!

[Maxx Blue]

I'm working on mastering my D-DC right now, and I STILL say ECM needs the nerf bat. If you dropped guardian back to what it is supposed to do, I would STILL run it all the damn time. Why in the world they want guardian ECM to have such a huge influence on battles is beyond me.

[Karl Streiger]

Even with all the changes of the game play during the time of the implementation of ECM and all those dozens of counter possibilitys. ECM has still a major impact on games.
Yes - they increased TAG range
Yes - they made the EMP effect of PPCs
Yes - they increased the range with those modules....

But...all this changes was to negate a system that was still much to powerfull. Even if I can say it isn't dreading anymore...there are other things now - the ECM is still to powerfull... I see it every day... i jump into my DDC.
I thing I'm quiete good in every Atlas...but its near godmode when in an DDC.... i even painted it plain white...with golden trim....here come on shot me...

[Cyke]

Karl Streiger, on 22 April 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

I thing I'm quiet good in every Atlas...but its near godmode when in an DDC.... i even painted it plain white...with golden trim....here come on shot me...

I lol'd

[CancR]

Wow...Up to 81 likes! keep it up guys we are so close to the goal.

[Novakaine]

Taron, on 29 March 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

From my point of view, ECM works perfect as it is now.

There is absolutly no need to change anything on the ECM.

On my last 100 matches, i often did not even notice that enemy has ECM.

Really I think yur full of it.
ECM should not be a default invisibilty shield it is now.
A 100 ton Atlas should not be able to sneak up on you period.
Which I've seen more often than not.
That's like the Yamato sneaking into New York harbor during WW2.
Just was'nt gonna happen.

[CancR]

Fix ecm bump.

[General Taskeen]

Remove GECM fantasy shut off missile feature + remove hard counters. Bump.

[MaddMaxx]

Sable Dove, on 29 March 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

But then Streak Cats return, because boating streaks was pretty much the only reason they even implemented ECM. ;_;
Just kidding; I agree; the longer missile lock time is enough, though I'm not sure about the missiles losing lock at random intervals.

Definitely the NSS needs to be removed, and the complete negation of missiles.

OK, then how long should the Lock Delay be exactly?

Should we start at a 5 second delay on any targeted Mech, with LoS, and then commence biweekly patches for the 40 changes that the Forum will want, as 5 will never fly, nor will 2, based on the inevitable non-stop QQ about how they got the number wrong, over and over?

General Taskeen, on 30 March 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

While all of this has been said before in the Mega ECM thread, we can only pray PGI agrees with common sense.

Agree 100%. Of course it means, if that "common sense" you seek comes from within their Development work space. They sure as hell ain't getting much from out here.

[DocBach]

MaddMaxx, on 09 May 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Agree 100%. Of course it means, if that "common sense" you seek comes from within their Development work space. They sure as hell ain't getting much from out here.

PGI's idea of "common sense" has proven pretty terrifying - "we love polarizing content half the community absolutely hates, and the other half is ambivalent at best about!"

[Livewyr]

Why did this thread get necro'd?

It's merely a painful memory of PGI not actually giving a damn about "this very minor demographic" with an opinion...
Clearly we are wrong, and all the de facto yes's coming from the non-present/speaking/voting playerbase outweigh us all.

Just let this die.

[General Taskeen]

Never!

General "William Wallace" Taskeen - I am General "William Wallace" Taskeen. And, I see a whole army of my fellow player's, here in defiance of tyranny. You've come to voice our opinions as freemen, and freemen you are. What will you do without freedom?! Will you voice your opinion? Will you fight?

Player - No... we will give up... and we submit to PGI.

General "William Wallace" Taskeen - Aye. Voice your opinion and you may die. Give up and you'll have a little fun, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days of beta from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell the Devs, that they may take our fun away, but they'll never take our freedom!