86 replies to this topic

[jakucha]

p8ragon, on 30 March 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

MWO needs better pricing. Why should I pay $15+ for an AVERAGE mech in MWo when i can pay $5 for ANY mech in Hawken?

Also, new players don't know the subtle differences between mwo/hawken or don't really care when the price discreptancy is that massive. I played hawken for the longest time and I ******* loved mechwarrior

It was only the elimination of R&R that got me back into this game (was sick of coming up negative as a new player...because telling a new player to get better or **** is SUCH AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO ATTRACT NEW BLOOD)

Pretty sure it's due to time ratio required for making the mechs. Hawken is basically 1 hitbox of a smaller mech. MWO has a bunch of stuff going into one mech.

[Treckin]

I agree with much of what you said, however I sadly have zero confidence in PGI...

Edited by Treckin, 30 March 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[MN03]

You can't compare Hawken and MWO with each other, both play styles are different (I played Hawken). Hawken is an upgraded CoD game, but still very fun. I am only jealous of Hawken's better graphics and performance, MWO is so slow on my machine.

[XIRUSPHERE]

Hawken plays like fat quake 3. If you used to have fun with quake 3 hawken is fairly fun. The thing that pissed me off was the spawn mechanic in the game was ridiculous. I would get a kill feed of 5-7 people and never have time to retreat or repair because they spawn so close. I would end matches with over 40 kills but it's just a constant stream of spawns right next to you. Did not like it very much. Played it for about a week and decided that quake 3 was better at being quake 3.

[marabou]

Hawken is a quake 3 in the world of slowpokes.

[Sam Slade]

Hawken is just to easy. You outplan and you win every time... in MWO there is the grey area that your out foxed enemy may spin around and happen to blast your AC20 off.... and the plan must change. Hawken gets bland fast.

[MeatForBrains]

Hawken is a horrible horrible game, I couldn't even make myself play through two rounds before uninstalling it.

[Hedonism Robot]

Like others I downloaded Hawken and it's still installed. I play it around once a month for an hour or so because i like the unreal tournament style gameplay. I don't really consider it a mech game though, its extremely simple and gets old quickly. Hawken also doesn't involve much strategy or teamplay. That said, I understand what the OP is trying to get at. I believe hawken has a larger user base (not by too much but a bit larger) thanks to how easy it is to pickup. When you start playing the game you get a full on tutorial, followed by a very simplified mechlab. The pricing is cheaper, but I haven't actually found anything I wanted to buy in Hawken.

Hopefully MWO will learn from Hawken and make its new player experience better while not sacrificing the complexity and depth that makes MWO great.

[Commander Kobold]

ya'll are comparing CoD to Battlefield... they're the same and yet different.

[Irvine]

Everyone here is missing the point though.

MN03, on 30 March 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

You can't compare Hawken and MWO with each other,

But everyone does, and everyone will continue to. This is because they both have big stompy mechs!

Here is the sad truth: Hawken is a far more polished and complete game than MWO is at this very moment. I am saying this while MWO is one of my favorite games, and the game I currently play the most. Better optimization better new player experience, better(well **** an actual) lobby system, lack of hyper-inflated prices, etc etc etc. If this doesn't change Hawken will roll MWO like an 8man v 8 cadet bonus trials

[GrimDeath]

Am I the only one that couldn't read anything past "a healing mech"?

[Turist0AT]

hawken has 4 game modes not 2

[and zero]

A week or so ago I temporarily quit playing MWO mainly out of boredom with the game (essentially 1.2 very basic game modes which generally play out exactly the same way every time) and frustration with the currently terrible matchmaking (no weight balance obviously, and also elo is just not working. If you have dropped with a 3-4 man group of high elo players, you know what Im talking about). Here is my opinion:

MWO vs. Hawken: Pretty much completely different. Hawken is basically call of duty where everyone is wearing a giant robot costume and the movement is much more clunky. I like the play style, gameplay, content, story, everything etc. etc. better in MWO.

That being said, sadly right now Hawken is significantly better than MWO. Which is bad because I want MWO to succeed. I don't care about Hawken.

Pricing: This is a big one. As some have said, you can get the regular mechs in Hawken for like 5-6$ THIS MAKES SENSE. I did the math and the grind to buy a mech with in game currency is pretty close between the two games (all mechs in Hawken are the same price, but it takes about the same amount of games without any bonuses to earn enough to buy one in Hawken as a heavy/assault in MWO). Now, in Hawken, if I actually liked the game enough I would easily buy a few mechs to lessen the grind. In MWO, 15$ for one mech? One regular, not at all special mech? Heck no. I am pretty good. I usually play with a good team. Earning c bills is not that hard. Not even close. Hero mechs should also see a price reduction. All mechs are supposed to be equally valuable, just in different situations, yes? Why is an assault hero over 3x more than a light? Of course it should be more. But 25$ - 30$ more? I just don't see the value in spending almost what a full game costs for one mech. As someone else mentioned, the customization options also seem more reasonably priced. Many people respond to this with a worthless "dont be a cheap ****, support the game and spend money". To many of us, it is not about that. It is about the perceived value of the purchase.

State of the game: Hawken has better graphics, less bugs, and is far better optimized to run well on varying systems. It has more game modes. And not just more modes, but much better ones (I'm not saying I think they are great, but they are actually engaging and different. I mean come on, conquest plays very much like assault does. And both are fairly lackluster either way). Also, game lobbies. I know you are a small team. So improve the game to make more money to hire more people!

Events/Sales: PGI you are already on the right track with the weekly sales and more tournaments/events. Keep it going. But go further. Ideas: Mission of the day, daily log-on bonus, first kill of the day bonus, in game content giveaways (colors, patterns etc). Just some ideas.

Some big things myself and the many guys in my clan (over 100 now) generally agree on: PRIVATE MATCHES. again PRIVATE MATCHES. This is huge. Vastly improves the new player experience and new player retention. Great for clans, groups, groups of friends, community run tournaments/events, practice etc. For me and many it would also help break up the current boredom of the game and would get around the terrible matchmaking (no terrible players on either team, no cheese builds unless you agree on them for fun, more tactical variation, much more of a challenge for each side and much more potential fun etc).

Then the pricing as I already discussed and the significant work needed in the game balance department.

In conclusion: I love MW. I think in many ways the game is amazing. But it needs a lot of work. PGI, please take some of these things into consideration. Learn from hawken. You have a way better game (my opinion of course) you just need to make it happen. Thanks for all your hard work

Edited by and zero, 30 March 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[Rigiroth]

Saying you can't compare Hawken and MWO is like saying you can't compare Battleship to a Destroyer. Yes, we may know the things that make them unique, but to the average person, and like wise the average spender, they are both big ships with big guns. Not acknowledging them as a competitor and a similar game on that basis would be suicide. And the fact that PGI wants Hawken's market makes it more so.

[Mister Blastman]

Umm... Hawken Gameplay < MWO Gameplay. There's just no comparison. Hawken mechs feel like crap.

The pricing, however, is superior in Hawken.

[Belorion]

I have played Hawken as well... not a fan, just my personal view. For me MWO is THE big metal robot fighting game.

[SmoothCriminal]

Even having micro'd my way through some £50 (including a hero), I would be ok with a reduction in price points for the hero mechs to persuade more people to buy them.

That said, until we have their sales figures/accounts all this is speculation.

[Stone Profit]

Steemship, on 30 March 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Hawken vs MWO: A Nonobjective Analysis (With back story starter!)

Back story starter

When I first played Hawken, I had already been well established in MWO, so I did the rational thing of take a glance, see something I don't like, play a few alright games, and pass it off as inferior. Recently, however, while looking for MWO's Pax East announcements, I stumbled upon Hawken's Pax East video found here:



The first 6 minutes are kind of bland, just talking about mech specializations and new mechs coming out. However, at 6:__ they make a very interesting announcement: a healing mech similar to the medic from TF2. After hearing this and watch the rest of the video (I lost interest again towards the end as they start to talk about graphics, which my PC can't handle that well), I decided I would play a bit of Hawken and compare the two on some points.

I readily acknowledge that they are not the same game, but they are competitors and knowledge is a very useful asset for PGI, who can learn from Hawken, and the consumer, who will be spending money on one or the other.

Facts about Hawken, since most people I know just say Hawken is a twich shooter and pass it off. I will also state that I don'tk now the ends and outs of Hawken nearly as well as I do MWO which is evident from later parts in the post, but for first impressions (The important part to know for F2P games since that is what will get people to spend money)

Business Model
All Mechs in Hawken are five dollars. Additionally, mech customizations run anywhere from $1.50 to $2.50. Cosmetics range from $1.00 to $2.50. Colors are all free, but only very small parts of the mech can be painted. Camos do cost and allow more effective use of the colors and cost about the same as other cosmetic items.

Customization
The Customization in Hawken is dramatically more limited. Each mech has three primary weapons to choose from.. Mechs also have offensive and support items such as mines, turrets, heal charges, and deploy-able shields. Lastly, mechs have passive buffs that all feature some sort of buff as well as a downside, such as increased bullet damage but less armor, more armor but slower movement, etc. (It's important to note here that this is the thing that originally turned me away as I saw it as P2W and a throw back to CoD 4. This is, however, not the case because mechs are harder to kill and the extra damage is miniscule in comparison. Also, all mechs start out with +5% armor).

Gameplay
Matches are 15 minutes in length and feature re-spawning mechs. Mechs die faster than in MWO, but not nearly as fast as other popular twitch shooters like Call of Duty. Their are no head shots or a complex hit system like MWO; a mech has a health bar and when it is depleted, the mech dies. Mechs can also heal in the game using a repair bot that every mech has. Little passive buffs can boost this rate (often increasing start time as a trade off), but ultimately, every mech can find a corner to hide in and heal quickly to return to battle. Mechs move at different speeds, but their aren't mechs that move at egregiously different speeds. All mechs can also dash in all directions to avoid damage and all mechs have jump jets that allow hovering without much escalation outside of an initial burst.

Matchmaking
While I don't fully understand the matchmaking system, it does group players based on skill and features a lobby system, which is currently broken since it unbalances games if players of different skill levels join after the initial creation, this is an issue they are addressing. The key thing here is the lobby system.

Starting equipment
Everyone in Hawken starts out with a basic medium mech that comes with a basic item for every part except Offensive Items. The starter mech, called Fred, may not be the best at any one thing but it is easy to pilot and is easily able to avoid other mechs it can't fight, the assaults, while pounding on the ones it can, the lights.

Gamemodes
Hawken currently features two game modes, Team Deathmatch and Siege. I haven’t had any experience with Siege because Hawken requires new players to play in TDM to get a feel for the game first. I will edit this post with more information on Siege when I acquire it.

End of Facts. Start of opinion/ What PGI Could learn from Hawken.

Hawken's base game is currently much better than MWO. The development team knows their audience. They have created a forgiving game at an affordable price to reach their target audience. Their prices are actually micro-transactions that are more likely to appeal to their target audience of teenagers and people in their early 20s. MWO, on the other hand, is priced for older adults who are fans of the game. The issue is that they are trying to make the game appeal to the younger audience, but they aren't adjusting the prices for said audience. Additionally, they aren’t' fast enough to keep up with the high demands of the younger audience who often tend to lack the patience of older players. For a long time, PGI has been talking about how their meta-game will drive MWO home, but the problem with that is that the base-game simply isn't good enough right now. The only reason I will state here is the fact of how easy it is to kill mechs do to PGI's balancing (Caused by obnoxiously high burst damage balanced by long cool down times among other weaknesses. The problem with this is that the single high burst damage is often enough to cripple mechs for the rest of the game.) Another big note is the starting equipment. Trial mechs are just garbage and that will turn away a lot of new players. It is something that definitely needs to be addressed quickly and, at the very least, before Full release. A rebalance of mech rolls is also needed as well and possibly further limitations to the customization system so mechs play their rolls.


What now?
Well, I'm going to play other games. The point of this post was to, hopefully, give Pgi a bit of perspective on where to lead the game while they are developing it. I'm still going to track MWO's progress and play the hell out of Double XP weekends with a small MC stipend every now and then, but I guess I just lack the patience mentioned earlier and hopefully things'll get better. MWO does have a lot of potential but they seriously need to focus on the base-game more than they are. Additionally, lowering prices to be more competitive will be a necessity if they plan on changing their target audience while still keeping the older audience, who they have to keep to stay profitable. (They wont be able to tap fully in to their new-target audience because of competitors like Hawken, but having the older market will help them do better) Not ignoring the forums, filled with the “minority” die-hard supporters of the game, would be a good start.

In closing, this isn't a post to bash PGI or encourage people to go play Hawken. It is a post to hopefully inform PGI of some issues that need to be addressed before Full Release and give PGI some insight on the appeal of their competitor.

Healing mechs, how unrealistic. no thanks.

[Yokaiko]

p8ragon, on 30 March 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

MWO needs better pricing. Why should I pay $15+ for an AVERAGE mech in MWo when i can pay $5 for ANY mech in Hawken?

)

You don't have to pay for a mech at all.

[Pinselborste]

Stone Profit, on 30 March 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Healing mechs, how unrealistic. no thanks.

as realistic as 100 ton mechs with fusion reactors in them