127 replies to this topic

[KEMikos]

Karyu, on 05 April 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

However, I wouldn't oppose pixelation in the zoom modes. The reason for this being; the game actively renders the environment at the correct resolution when you zoom in, resulting in crystal clear focus in any vision mode at any range. Any equipment I have ever worked with isn't capable of enhancing imagery on the fly and results in a mild, but noticeable loss of resolution as you zoom in on objects.

Any optically-based (i.e., physically moving lenses around) zoom device will give you perfect image magnification with no loss of resolution (though the image may appear darker at extreme zoom levels, as a high-magnification lens will typically collect less light). What you're thinking of is digital magnification, where a small section of an incoming digital signal is expanded to fill the screen.

In the game currently, standard zoom is implemented like an optical zoom, while the "Advanced Zoom Module" acts like a digital zoom.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Devs, please listen to this man...he knows exactly what he is talking about and his input here is invaluable. Take him up on his offer to help!

[irony1999]

While I'm not sold on the pixelation/gaussian blur effect, the overall effect here (can see mechs on cold maps at a distance, but hard to snipe with it) is pure gold.

A+ for effort on this CnlPepper!

[wuselfuzz]

I took one of the higher-rez mockups, mapped grey levels to a blue-red gradient, added some gaussian blur and additionally used the original greyscale image (normalized + brightened) as an alpha map.

[CnlPepper]

OK, as some of you don't like the pixelation idea, I have another possibility that uses the conceit that the optical design of the mech thermal imager is poor (we need some "failing" to be able to control sniping ranges). In this mockup I have applied a guassian blur as before, but the width of the blur is now a function of distance from the camera. This is *very* crudely simulating a lens with a limited focal depth. This may be the best of all worlds. You get a sharp image close up and a blurred image in the distance. Unfortunately you'll now see my crappy hand painted thermal on the closest mech!

Compare these images to the previous Guassian blurred ones. I think this could be the winner.

It would be very easy to implement as a post process pixel shader. The Guassian blur sample tap spacing is simply now a linear function of the Z buffer depth, trivial to implement.

[Doctor Brontosaurus]

Once again, Physics demonstrates that it is king of the sciences. This would be the ideal thermal mode, wether color or grayscale (though I liked the old color mode because it made me feel like Predator.)

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

First - great contribution, OP! Love your suggestion, as it would also end the fact that at the moment the icey terrain in Frozen CIty is as bright as the heated MeEch in thermal view. Which kinda is stunning given a frozen surrounding should have way less "heat" then a heataed Mech.

[Dauphni]

I have to join the chorus of people expressing their admiration for this suggestion. It really is great, and I'd love to see the in-game thermal implemented like this!

[CnlPepper]

Thanks for the support. Hopefully someone on the dev team will comment at some point.

[ThinkTank]

I wont pretend to understand most of that stuff, but I like the nice pictures.

[Wireball]

Karyu, on 05 April 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

Pixelation, as with any digital viewing device, is relevant to the quality of the equipment. Arbitrarily adding pixelation to supposed military grade equipment doesn't sit well with me when, as I said, the current version is reasonably realistic.

I'm not a big fan of the pixelated versions either; I like the gaussian blur or fuzzed versions better myself.

Still, I utterly loathe the lack of realism in hot mechs showing up as the same level as the snow background.

Edited by Wireball, 05 April 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Aim64C]

Now, out of curiosity... can this engine handle proper destruction of IR by water? Rain and bodies of water should really mess with IR systems (well, spare for what's above the water).

I have to say that I would appreciate a far more 'realistic' experience in MechWarrior - particularly IR and LA vision modes.

I strongly believe that the heart of a lot of balance issues in Mechwarrior stem from the fact that Battletech has a lot of 'real' things that people seem to have very skewed perceptions of. This creates senseless behavior and scenarios that simply aren't grounded in a real and practical world.

Which is why I think we should be going a little closer to the "simulator" route of things. It should still be a very fluid and intuitive control scheme that doesn't overwhelm you with unnecessary details... but we should be modeling a lot of this stuff off of its real-world counterpart and fitting into the gameplay (either literally or interpretively to generate similar function/utility).

[POWR]

Those last pics look great for concepts now if only they could implement something like it. Also, we should always consider balance.

[wuselfuzz]

I still like colors.



This is CnlPepper's last image with greyscale values mapped to a blue-green-red-yellow-white gradient.

Edited by wuselfuzz, 06 April 2013 - 03:17 AM.

[CnlPepper]

Lets keep this topic floating!

[machinech]

Well put OP. I personally, thanks to my time in the military with thermal targeting systems, find the previous an current "thermal" vision modes to be silly. I logged in to try the current incarnation only to laugh myself out of my chair. I was loaded into an ARCTIC map, to find that all mechs were nearly the same glow intensity as the ICY GROUND. That's just silly... period. Game balance wise, I can see why they are not making thermal vision systems true to reality... As many already feel it's the only "true" choice with it's highlighting ability. Can't figure why they don't make alternate vision systems break-able and allow for a chance of mech dmg to possibly disable said modes. That would make normal vision what it is in real armored combat, a fall back, that can and will get used due to battle dmg. It seems silly however to be tromping around products of highly advance technology that can't give you thermal vision any better then WW2 optics. It's a bit of a deal breaker in terms of immersion.

[WizzDK]

This needs to be implemented! Looks awesome!

[CnlPepper]

As we now have ~100 likes on the orginal post, it would be nice if one of the dev team could acknowledge they have read or are at least aware of this topic. I'm not looking for a yes or no, just a notification that the effort put into this topic and the interest shown have been noticed. I'd hate to think we are no having any influence on the direction of a game that we all enjoy!

[Vaderman]

Maybe it's just me but I still don't understand why being able to hit targets at long range with weapons designed to be able to hit at long ranges is a bad thing.

I really don't understand why the community is up in arms about people able to hit tiny dots with their skills. I mean unless you're standing there not moving its pretty hard to pop you at 1300m.

But anyway, nice work on this guys.

[MentalPatient]

Vaderman, on 10 April 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

Maybe it's just me but I still don't understand why being able to hit targets at long range with weapons designed to be able to hit at long ranges is a bad thing.

I really don't understand why the community is up in arms about people able to hit tiny dots with their skills. I mean unless you're standing there not moving its pretty hard to pop you at 1300m.

But anyway, nice work on this guys.

Because the devs disliked that TIR was the go to vision mode when it came to battle, they wanted each view mode to have strengths and weaknesses so you had to use the correct view mode for a particular situation. This I kind of understand, and I like it now that for longer range targets at night, I'll switch to night vision to scan for any movement, then at closer range switch to TIR for contrast purposes.

I like the idea which is being put forth, though maybe not as pixelly. What I really hope is they implement some kind of slightly realistic heat map shader, as right now its just a white haze transparently overlaid over the standard view mode in monochrome, which I find unrealistic and un immersive. It would be really nice as someone else said, to have water effect the heat maps, but I doubt we will see that kind of depth. What would be cool is to see heat dissipating from the heat sinks, or from any hot areas of the mech.