73 replies to this topic

[Just wanna play]

Recently, when tinkering with my spider, i noticed that i really liked upping the heat efficiency so i could fire my small laser as often as possible, then i noticed, if i use a bigger mech, i could fit in more heat sinks and it would run cooler then my spider ever could, and it would keep most of the armor 2! So then i started using a trebuchet as the base, then i noticed the dragon, while still fast, could carry even more tonnage! While designing it thought, i thought why not design my small laser crusader out of an awesome 8m, but wait! When looking for the awesome, i noticed a mech that could hold as astounding 100 tons, the atlas! Now that i have 100 tons to play with, my small laser will never overheat again like it did in my spider again! But, after finishing the design, i began to question, did i take it a little to far??

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...114d516e820c3a0

should i use an atlas D? then my small laser would be in the CT just like it is in my spider!

[SjurWarEagle]

I'm sad to say, this will not work in MWO. Although your design has many advantages like the possibility to wear a T-Shirt in the cockpit and also solving the problem with used "p" or "o"-keys, remember MWO will not allow mechs with a heat efficiency >= 2.0.
Maybe a dragon would be the mech of choice.

[Just wanna play]

SjurWarEagle, on 03 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I'm sad to say, this will not work in MWO. Although your design has many advantages like the possibility to wear a T-Shirt in the cockpit and also solving the problem with used "p" or "o"-keys, remember MWO will not allow mechs with a heat efficiency >= 2.0.
Maybe a dragon would be the mech of choice.

XD yeah i know, i just wanted to see how many hs you could put in a mech and how eff. you could possibly get it

so 60 seems like the max... unless you don't put a weapon in the mech in the first place

[Just wanna play]

i might use it as the base for a build with really hot weapons or something...

[Just wanna play]

you know you want to laugh at it

[Just wanna play]

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Recently, when tinkering with my spider, i noticed that i really liked upping the heat efficiency so i could fire my small laser as often as possible, then i noticed, if i use a bigger mech, i could fit in more heat sinks and it would run cooler then my spider ever could, and it would keep most of the armor 2! So then i started using a trebuchet as the base, then i noticed the dragon, while still fast, could carry even more tonnage! While designing it thought, i thought why not design my small laser crusader out of an awesome 8m, but wait! When looking for the awesome, i noticed a mech that could hold as astounding 100 tons, the atlas! Now that i have 100 tons to play with, my small laser will never overheat again like it did in my spider again! But, after finishing the design, i began to question, did i take it a little to far??

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...114d516e820c3a0

should i use an atlas D? then my small laser would be in the CT just like it is in my spider!

XD, i just realized, 60% of its weight is made up of heat sinks, and only .5% of it is made up of the actually weapons

[Just wanna play]

SjurWarEagle, on 03 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I'm sad to say, this will not work in MWO. Although your design has many advantages like the possibility to wear a T-Shirt in the cockpit and also solving the problem with used "p" or "o"-keys, remember MWO will not allow mechs with a heat efficiency >= 2.0.
Maybe a dragon would be the mech of choice.

So your saying i should put in coolant flush instead?

[Phaesphoros]

What about this AS7-RS? It's got whopping 6.62 sustained dps.

[Just wanna play]

hmm, joking aside, lets think about a way to set-up an atlas so that it could just keep shooting some powerful weapon for a very long time

Phaesphoros, on 03 April 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

What about this AS7-RS? It's got whopping 6.62 sustained dps.

good, although i don't entirely trust max sustained dps, since it just averages out each weapons heat and dps, instead of looking at each weapon individually.

what you guys think of something like this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...138e0a849419dc0

[Phaesphoros]

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

what you guys think of something like this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...138e0a849419dc0

I've actually tried something similar, but it works better with hit-and-run e.g. on a K2 or DRG.

STKs of course can do better (more sustained DPS), who thought that.....

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

good, although i don't entirely trust max sustained dps, since it just averages out each weapons heat and dps, instead of looking at each weapon individually.

It's fine as long as heat efficiency is > 100 % or about 100 %.

Edit: Otherwise, IIRC it's an optimization problem; I've made some calculations (basically brute-force) to get max sustained DPS for some weapon configurations.

Edited by Phaesphoros, 03 April 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Phaesphoros, on 03 April 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

STKs of course can do better (more sustained DPS), who thought that.....

challenge accepted

wait, it has no armor on it in that case...

stalkerz have more total crit spaces, thats probably why

the atlas can also get 6.74 max sustained, and its faster
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b3f353dde34fbb9

if any one is thinking about building one of these mechs, don't, considering the 100% heat eff, the max sustained dps is the max dps overall, and 6.74 is pretty weak

[Phaesphoros]

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

challenge accepted

wait, it has no armor on it in that case...

It has one spare ton.

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

the atlas can also get 6.74 max sustained, and its faster
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b3f353dde34fbb9

Here you go: STK-3F 6.9 DPS
Edit: STK-3F 7.0 DPS

Edited by Phaesphoros, 03 April 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Phaesphoros, on 03 April 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

It has one spare ton.


Here you go: STK-3F 6.9 DPS
Edit: STK-3F 7.0 DPS

your lucky you got more critical spaces, and just for the heck of it, imagine running into a stalker with this weapon set-up!!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...00c51e64c8ec358

Phaesphoros, on 03 April 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

It has one spare ton.


Here you go: STK-3F 6.9 DPS
Edit: STK-3F 7.0 DPS

hmm, all your doing is trading actual dps for cooler weapons, like i said, the max sus dps calculation is horrible

[Royalewithcheese]

That build will run cooler if you replace the Small Laser with a Machine Gun.

[Krondor]

You will hit a point of diminishing returns on heat sinks. Your Awesome build has a whopping 4 more alpha damage than my FLAME build, and I can fire almost constantly by staggering weapons.

You have to remember you'll almost never be in a position to fire all your weapons all the time. Faster mechs can maneuver around and it will usually take a moment to get back into optimal firing position. Just because you can fire your weapons doesn't mean you should, that extra two seconds it takes to get a shot at the tender CT instead of the armoured arm is worth the wait, and it provides you with an extra two seconds of cooling time for your weapons. Designing a mech -especially a light or fast heavy like a Dragon- for constant non-stop Alpha is inefficient.

Here's another way of looking at it (and these numbers are completely arbitrary):

Lets say we have 2 atlases, and both pilots fire with Alphas exclusively with all weapons.

Atlas 1 has an Alpha of 60 and a recycle time of 5 seconds, but he has to wait 8 seconds for heat to cool down to constantly Alpha.

Atlas 2 has an Alpha of 40 and a recycle time of 5 seconds, and can fire every 5 seconds.

Over 30 seconds of sustained combat, the two Atlases both cause the exact same damage (240 points). If combat is sustained for more than 30 seconds, Atlas 2 -with the lower Alpha- will cause more damage.

However;

This assumes constant, non-stop firing and BOTH mechs being able to fire every time their weapons are able. If you're not able to keep your guns on target, all the time, Atlas 1 WILL out damage you.

If we change the numbers around to make it slightly more realistic in that you can't fire every single time you're ready, so it averages to say, 7 seconds for Atlas 2 and 10 seconds for Atlas 1, Atlas 1 out damages you by 20 points (160 to 180).

I know this was a pretty rudimentary comparison, but the premise is that building for sustained Alpha is only efficient if you can fire at your maximum fire rate. Otherwise you're just waisting tonnage.

[Phaesphoros]

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

your lucky you got more critical spaces, and just for the heck of it, imagine running into a stalker with this weapon set-up!!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...00c51e64c8ec358

With no ammo and no engine you're cheating

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

hmm, all your doing is trading actual dps for cooler weapons, like i said, the max sus dps calculation is horrible

How's that? The second one (7.0 DPS) has a heat efficiency of > 100 %, so it really can sustain that DPS, therfore max DPS = max sustained DPS. The first one can have a slightly higher DPS (if use one laser only occasionally).

Krondor, on 03 April 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

snip

You're right, but you're taking it too seriously.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

For every thread like this god kills a kitten. o_O







Please think at the kittens and help to save them!

[Just wanna play]

Phaesphoros, on 03 April 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

With no ammo and no engine you're cheating


How's that? The second one (7.0 DPS) has a heat efficiency of > 100 %, so it really can sustain that DPS, therfore max DPS = max sustained DPS. The first one can have a slightly higher DPS (if use one laser only occasionally).


You're right, but you're taking it too seriously.

well if i put in an engine and ammo, it becomes a little less awesome...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f377ac9d3c52bd4

and still, like krondor said, you won't be alive long enough, unless your piloting a great turtle, to use your max sustained dps to your advantage because your burst dmg is horrible

still, we are just having some fun, so don't bring in logic krondor

[Just wanna play]

ha, 10 sus dps
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...561ab54e6b37b95

[Phaesphoros]

Just wanna play, on 03 April 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

ha, 10 sus dps
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...561ab54e6b37b95

But it's with ammo. Every energy-based mech has a higher sustained DPS if you say "it has this DPS until it overheats", even if that takes like a minute.