1089 replies to this topic

[MegaZordTrololo]

My main problem with ECM was the disorientation it causes. It is very important to know whether your team has your back, if ECM can no longer deprive me of this information then I have far less problem with it.

Saying that, an Atlas should not get ECM capability, this is just ridiculous.

EDIT: I would say restrict ECM to Mediums and Lights, this will help Mediums have more utility (and reason for use) than a Heavy.

Edited by MegaZordTrololo, 04 April 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[MechaLooz]

Ghogiel, on 04 April 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Any competitive game should be balanced around the best of the best not the other way around.

Any company which wants to survive more than a couple of months has to balance its game for non competitive players because they usually are a large share of the player base. Also, I suspect they are the one willing to spend a bit of money to reduce the grinding. Why bother with premium time when you are already practicing 4 hours a day? You have more C-Bill and XP you will ever need.

That's why you usually separate non-competitors from competitors using rated games and ladders. A lot of successful MMO have done it. WoW, the most successful of all has done it. Even Eve Online, with its amazingly steep learning curve has sandbox zones where new player can have fun without one of them having access to a too powerful tech.

[J-Pax7]

Ghogiel, on 04 April 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Any competitive game should be balanced around the best of the best not the other way around.

So the developers should be making this game to make these exceptionally skilled players better and the 'best of the best' aren't meant to be so because of there ability to master the game but because the game is designed to make them good. Kind of an illogical statement.

Additionally I would like to add that LRMs do require a skill to use effectively. You need to learn what target to attack based on the werabouts of your team mates, your own placement in relation to them, the ways to keep distance between you and the enemy and also how to maximise your use of secondary weapons. What most of these incredibly skilled players who claim that LRMs are noob only weapons seem to miss is that LRMs are terrible weapons to kill another mech with unless its teetering on destruction anyways and their most effective use is to whittle down enemy armour so that direct weapons can finish them off by concentrating on damaged areas. Another effective and difficult way of using them is as a scare weapon. People then to bolt for cover when targeted by LRMs and a pilots ability to exploit this to aid his team mates is a very refined skill to master. The argument that these weapons don't require skill is based on the opinion that mastery of this game is your ability to press a button at a specific time when you line up your sights with your target. I pose that is one of the most basic skills and one of the easiest elements of any shooter to master and people that claim they have an incredible ability to press that button have kind of missed the point.

I will end by adding that I rarely use LRMs as my main weapon as I have a soft spot for laud and rapid firing weapons however since experimenting with them to master different playstyles I now have a new respect for skilled players using these weapons in an effective and strategic way.

[Prezimonto]

Everyone please read this thread over in game balance:
http://mwomercs.com/...-something-new/

It's the most cogent argument I've seen for excellent changes to be made to ECM and BAP.

[Antonio]

I have used PPCs as my main weapons since the start so ECM didn't affect me since I was just shooting at blue blobs anyway. The only thing that I dont like about this equipment is how much it does for 1.5 tons.

[Grimstein]

Eldragon, on 04 April 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

"I don't like getting hit by lock on weapons!"
And

"I like PUG stomping teams that can't focus fire on targets like my voice comms team can!"

No pugs in 8 man.

Edited by Grimstein, 04 April 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Grimstein, on 04 April 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

No pugs in 8 man.

ECM isn't a problem in 8 man. 8 Man teams coordinate via Voicecom, pick their own drop selection, and face an enemy team doing the same. Its their own fault if they lack ECM, or are unable to deal with it.

Edited by Eldragon, 04 April 2013 - 05:16 AM.

[Roheryn]

I am truly in awe of PGI's ability to misunderstand how ECM effects this game.

There are Countless walls of text on these forums explaining the problems cogently and coherently, so I won't bother here.

There is a reason the Devs get stomped everytime they play 8 man. They have no concept of what this game has really become. Probably a side effect of working too much and playing too little.

That would be perfectly okay if they would actually listen to the community about the consequences of certain game imbalances. INstead they have shown time and again an incredible level of arrogance when it comes to the issue of ECM in this game.

I have spent considerable money on this game so far. I will not do so any longer if this attitude continues. This is not a threat it is just factual you can consider that my feedback.

[StalaggtIKE]

Accursed Richards, on 04 April 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

This is disappointing.

ECM remains a "well, duh" choice that still has more influence on a fight than gear 10x the weight. Yes, you can work round it (with much more work than you need to "work around" any other piece of gear), but why this? Why does the presence of ECM make so much more difference than the presence of medium lasers, BAP's, AC/20's, or....anything else?

I just don't understand why among stuff that usually hews close to the TT version, ECM was given such a long list of new abilities, and there's such resistance to simply nerfing it to be in line with other stuff that requires the same sacrifices. Why is ECM on a tier of it's own (something that nobody has ever even tried to argue against, across many threads)?

Simply, it'll be balanced when someone might consider not mounting it on a viable mech.

Yeah, disappointing to see so much feedback and so many good ideas being ignored. Not much else to say.

Well said.

The moment someone states that, "ECM is not much of an issue. All you have to do is equip TAG". I realize that they simply don't get it. What they've just unknowingly stated is that one must equip a device that does nothing but counters TAG just to use a subpar weapon (LRM). In other words if ECM never existed TAG wouldn't even be purposely placed on a build.

Next, PPC, the king of lasers, is demoted to that of a glorified ECM counter. How does PPC magically turn ECM off? Through EMP of course. But wait, what about all the other electronics? Nope it does nothing there. ECM is so advance that it can counter or disrupt nearly every bit of electronic tech in the game; yet it's susceptible to the same EMP that all inferior devices simply shrug off.

Finally you can go the route of equipping a module that extends your radar detecting range by 25%. That is after ECM has first cut it by 75%. So by default you have 800m of radar detection, which is cut down to 200m with ECM (cost 400,000CB). You then can use one of your limited module slots for Advanced Sensor Range to add 50m back (cost 2,000,000CB). I guess it's a great thing that most of the modules suck.

Again, why is ECM a 1.5 ton device, with no heat penalty or ammo requirement and a cost of only 400,000CB placed in a higher tier? It's weakness is losing it either by temporary disruption or being destroyed, in which you simply become a mech that must fight by the normal rules. Boo, hoo! Sorry I'm not feeling necessarily weak in my D-DC or 3L once my ECM has been disabled.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 04 April 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[Viper69]

All mechs should be able to field ECM, not this bastardized Angel ECM these yahoos invented.

[StalaggtIKE]

Viper69, on 04 April 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

All mechs should be able to field ECM, not this bastardized Angel ECM these yahoos invented.

After all it's so balanced. Why not?
At least more chassis:

• all the Commandos
  
• all the Spiders
  
• all the Ravens
  
• all the Cicada minus the X-5
  
• Atlas-K

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 04 April 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Abivard]

A known spot for ECM? Nothing like painting bulls-eyes on your Armor is there? 3 health?

Have you been listening to the same people who say PPC's do not effect ECM?

Are you aiming for the fat,stupid, and clueless as your clientele?

[Viper69]

StalaggtIKE, on 04 April 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

After all it's so balanced. Why not?

Letting every mech have access to it is the perfect balance (because every mech could). so yeah.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

You let every variant have it, then every player will use it on every variant and turn the game into ECM Wars. But why not? It's already ECM Wars, at least then you could play the variant you wanted without a handicap. I wish they'd allow more, but not all, variants to use it, but just not have the thing be so OP. I'm tired of these bandaid changes when we need a large bomb like the ECM was in the first place. My signature remains unchanged and at this point I don't think I'll ever change it.

[Livewyr]

ECMW:O


It's as if the Dev's don't actually read the things that Niko and the Forum Mods spend forever scrounging up for them.

[zmeul]

what a waste of a read
huge post about nothing really, all I saw is how pleased they are with the direction ECM is heading, and how much skill it needs to operate ... really!?!?

[Iacov]

nice changes - but yet NOTHING to improve BAP
BAP is a waste of tonnage in its current form
BAP and ECM are ought to be natural enemies
yet, one is absolutely dominant, whilst the other dies alone in a cave

[Skunk Wolf]

Make ECM a weapon module like TAG and have it generate heat. Even at a small laser level. You have to have the trigger down for it to work.

Imbalance SOLVED.

Edited by Skunk Wolf, 04 April 2013 - 05:50 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

You know the funny thing about this.

Is during that whole post he mentions nothing about IW.

He doesn't mention making BAP worthwhile. Doesn't mention making NARC worthwhile. Or any other electronics.

And you can't really make any of them work while ECM does what it does.

It's all fairly silly really, they are basically saying "ECM is IW, and we are done and moving on from that pillar".

[qki]

the ECM hardpoint it redundant. Most ECM mechs (3 in 4) already carry an XL engine, so taking out a side torso will disable the ECM one way, or another. Unless you put the hardpoint in the CT (again, no point as far as disabling goes, but would **** off a lot of spider/commando pilots), or one of the arms/legs (kinda silly, but probably most relevant)