1089 replies to this topic

[RJGatling]

Thontor, on 11 April 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Not official metrics, but its something
http://mwomercs.com/...of-data-inside/

Thanks for the link!

I think this is the numbers seen and the % won or something like that, correct? Not amount of time alive, number of kills, damage done, etc.

Am I correct in interpreting ECM mechs % variance from an ECM mech vs non ECM mech? The results seem to show that as long as you have ECM mechs within your group, you're ok. However, I think the problem that most people have is that when you don't, you're screwed, as the results between ECM enabled variants of one mech to another seem to support. The general sentiment being that if you don't choose an ECM enabled variant, you're putting yourself at a comparative disadvantage.

Edit: I forgot to thank you for the link. Oh, and grammatical mistakes. If you see any, please let me know!

Edited by Hammacher Schlemmer, 11 April 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[SilentSooYun]

Why is this thread still going?
It's obvious they don't care and they're not listening.
Shutting off LRMs is "working as intended".

[FinnMcKool]

why does a comando carry "ECM" but only 1 Raven?

I understand the devs want balance and dont we all? but that said the Raven 3L is of course the only light mech worth driving, how is that Balanced?

Oh Im sure there will be some crazy zelots who claim they pilot their jenners or spiders ect ect ect .... and they are better, and maybe they are , but they would even be better in a 3L.

hey I love the 3L ,Im a light pilot junky, but ECM needs some work and I dont know the "answer" but I really think something needs to be done .

[Ramsess]

Im not sure if they have Guardian ECM or Angel ECM....

I think PGI is confused... the current Guardian ECM is in fact Angel ECM but that wasn't even started to be researched before 3052 which isnt in the current timeline....
The Angel ECM Suite is an experimental version of the Guardian ECM Suite operating on a broader spectrum and greatly advances ECM technology on the battlefield. Development of the Angel began in the Draconis Combine shortly after the Battle of Luthien, but despite assistance from ComStar, cost overruns and internal problems within both powers delayed its widespread deployment.

The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.

Battle of Luthien (3052)

If i remember right PGI said they wont release stuff that isn't part of the current timeline... so please give me MRM's or UAC10's UAC20's or SSRM4/6 because hey its only a few years away.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

For all of the "ecm is fine" I see around the forums, youd think there would be more than seven likes on the OP

Ramsess, on 11 April 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Im not sure if they have Guardian ECM or Angel ECM....

I think PGI is confused... the current Guardian ECM is in fact Angel ECM but that wasn't even started to be researched before 3052 which isnt in the current timeline....
The Angel ECM Suite is an experimental version of the Guardian ECM Suite operating on a broader spectrum and greatly advances ECM technology on the battlefield. Development of the Angel began in the Draconis Combine shortly after the Battle of Luthien, but despite assistance from ComStar, cost overruns and internal problems within both powers delayed its widespread deployment.

The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.

Battle of Luthien (3052)

If i remember right PGI said they wont release stuff that isn't part of the current timeline... so please give me MRM's or UAC10's UAC20's or SSRM4/6 because hey its only a few years away.

Ive said the same for months

[Peiper]

Ramsess, on 11 April 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Im not sure if they have Guardian ECM or Angel ECM....

I think PGI is confused... the current Guardian ECM is in fact Angel ECM but that wasn't even started to be researched before 3052 which isnt in the current timeline....

Actually, it's far more than either ECM, because it stops ALL radar, and all missile locks. It's an area cloaking device. And at the same time, it's not ECM at all, because ECM is countered by TAG (built into C3) computers, which is what it was designed specifically to block. That's why I keep arguing that the area cloaking device they have now is NOT ECM and should not be called ECM because it doesn't DO what ECM does. It does other, far more powerful and unbalanced crap. It's FUBAR!

Ramsess, on 11 April 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

If i remember right PGI said they wont release stuff that isn't part of the current timeline... so please give me MRM's or UAC10's UAC20's or SSRM4/6 because hey its only a few years away.

Yeah, they'll probably give us this stuff long before they admit that the stuff they have already given us is broken, and their castle will sink in the quicksand foundation they've already built and seem to be ignoring.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Peiper, on 11 April 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

Yeah, they'll probably give us this stuff long before they admit that the stuff they have already given us is broken, and their castle will sink in the quicksand foundation they've already built and seem to be ignoring.

Whats more galling about the ecm situation, is they told us to start with "its working as intended".
Then they said "we'll look into it" to appease the masses.
WEll, they looked into it and GUESS WHAT Its working as intended. Looks like what they want from this IS an area cloaking device that doesnt conform to the timeline. I want my MRMs

[DegeneratePervert]

God I hate the word "non-issue". Just SAY IT IS NOT AN ISSUE. GOD. Anyway...

ECM is annoying, and worth too much for it's weight and crit slots. But, it can be overcome, and it rightfully locks out LRMs and SSRMs. However, having said that, I think that:

1.) If Mech A mounts ECM, Mech A should prevent Mech B from firing lock on weapons.

2.) If Mech A mounts ECM, Mech A should ALSO BE PREVENTED from firing lock on weapons.

If this was implemented, then Light fights versus streak-boats would be less of a headache, and the 3L would remain a powerful tool, but not the best light around.

[Gopblin2]

I could get on board with "no lockons on the mech or by the mech" idea IF

1) ECM only prevented lockons on/by one mech, not everyone around it
2) Lost all the other effects such as area cloaking
3) Hit detection / fps / bugs were improved to the point where weapons other than lasers were actually viable against lights

It would still be somewhat unbalanced even then, but playable and miles better than what we got now.

Best wishes,
Daniel.

Edited by Gopblin2, 12 April 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

What if they left the no lock on bit, but adjusted the lock on weapons so that you would actually use them at their given range without a lock?

Such as dumbfire SSRMs, and LRMs that moved fast enough that you could reliably hit targets at 500-600 meters?

Which, granted, would still be a silly thing to have such a small thing do (though maybe not if that was all it did) but it would be better.

[ollo]

Ah, posted in the other thread, but this seems to fit better.

Very close to what it should be? As in harmful to the overall experience?
http://mwomercs.com/...-again-oh-noes/

[Target Rich]

Ok...I'll bite. Guardian ECM...not once...in any mecha game implemented....including the pen and paper battletech....has ECM been implemented as a non counterable BLANKET cover for a lance. Even when implemented...the game...after all it is based on the balanced battletech system....has always had a good counter to the ecm...like a workable NARC....and a BAP that actually WORKS...

During the past two months...this development team has CHOSEN....directly to eliminate the LRM as a major weapons system in this game.. PERIOD.

GOD ecm is not neutered by a 3-4 SECOND down period with a ppc blast....come on people...that is NOT a counter measure...go look up your basic battletech or play the MW3 and MW4 games again...and see how this LRM environment is PROPERLY modeled...which it is NOT in this game.

This game is so unbalanced and buggy right now that it is painful to play even for a 30 year battletech obsessive compulsive computer nerd like myself...

If you want to play the GOD ecm....then you need to take BAP and enable it to burn through the GOD ecm...or have lights carry DECENT NARCS that can remain on a frigging target for more than one frigging burst....

and FIX the LRM's to that they actually do decent damage rather than making pretty colors and fireworks displays that do almost no damage whatsoever..

And then again...maybe fix the random missile lockon bug...which is not being commented upon because NOBODY IS PLAYING LRM missiles as ANY kind of viable weapons system because EVERY SINGLE FACTOR IN THE MISSILE GAME IS DESIGNED TO ELIMINATE LRMS IN THIS GAME WHATSOEVER....

So enjoy Gears of War with mech skins....

Because this game as it now stands with the GOD ecm...the mickey mouse pathetic counters you are offering....and the other LRM bugs and outright nerfs...has almost NOTHING to do with past battletech gaming nor past Mech Warrior offerings...

PERIOD

[Old Mechdonald]

Thontor, on 04 April 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

With line of sight based detection, that can happen even without ECM.

No... at least one or more members of the enemy would appear on the radar sensor

[Livewyr]

Let's see if we can get this "effective" feedback thread to as many pages as the original!

[DocBach]

CutterWolf had an outstanding idea to where instead of ECM blocking all locks, it just blocks locks by hitting the R key - if PGI added a "target enemy under reticule" option and made ECM protected 'Mechs targetable by manual targeting, so you had to be observant and aware to locate the enemy visually, then manually target to engage with guided weapons.

[Zagum]

Sorry I can't read 43 pages, so I will ask the obvious:

Has anyone mentioned "Mech Knockdowns Feature" that was in the game until it was removed awhile back? This would solve the ECM/Light problem. I for one would not care if a mech had ECM if it has been face planted by a dragon.

Problem solved, next!!

[Savage Wolf]

Zagum, on 12 April 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Sorry I can't read 43 pages, so I will ask the obvious:

Has anyone mentioned "Mech Knockdowns Feature" that was in the game until it was removed awhile back? This would solve the ECM/Light problem. I for one would not care if a mech had ECM if it has been face planted by a dragon.

Problem solved, next!!

That would not make information warfare a part of the game again. That would only make the game into even more of a brawler battle. And it doesn't work against Atlas D-DC.

[Ravenspyre]

Personally, I don't like ECM as an end all be all answer to everything that it currently is with the only solid counter being itself. Saying that one needs to adapt is silly because I've been entering matches with other teams that have three sometimes even four ECM based mechs on the other side. This should be a red flag, in itself, on how powerful ECM has become.

In short, ECM should not be a instant counter to support abilities, which LRMs and SSRMs technically are. In the TT, ECM is a penalty to hit, not an absolute screen that prevents LRMs from attacking. In short, this completely removes a valid style of play.

If I were to fix it I would instead change how ECM works either reducing the number of LRMs that will go off when it strikes a mech by a percentage number or reducing the total output damage of an LRM if an ECM is currently operational on a mech as it stands. Equipping BAP should reduce this penalty (but not negate it), but ECM as itself should not be a 100% counter to the game because people don't know how to take cover and/or shut down their mech to remove their targeting profile from in flight LRMs. Hell unless a fast mech is running straight at a missile boat or standing still LRMs should practically never hit them to begin with since most of them are moving fairly fast.

As many have pointed out if ECM was added to all mechs it is almost a solid guarantee that all mechs would save a slot just for ECM.

Edited by Accalia, 12 April 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[Reciprocity2]

BAP should at least increase the range of burn through - just like the extended range sensor module.....

[DocBach]

Accalia, on 12 April 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Personally, I don't like ECM as an end all be all answer to everything that it currently is with the only solid counter being itself. Saying that one needs to adapt is silly because I've been entering matches with other teams that have three sometimes even four ECM based mechs on the other side. This should be a red flag, in itself, on how powerful ECM has become.

In short, ECM should not be a instant counter to support abilities, which LRMs and SSRMs technically are. In the TT, ECM is a penalty to hit, not an absolute screen that prevents LRMs from attacking. In short, this completely removes a valid style of play.

If I were to fix it I would instead change how ECM works either reducing the number of LRMs that will go off when it strikes a mech by a percentage number or reducing the total output damage of an LRM if an ECM is currently operational on a mech as it stands. Equipping BAP should reduce this penalty (but not negate it), but ECM as itself should not be a 100% counter to the game because people don't know how to take cover and/or shut down their mech to remove their targeting profile from in flight LRMs. Hell unless a fast mech is running straight at a missile boat or standing still LRMs should practically never hit them to begin with since most of them are moving fairly fast.

As many have pointed out if ECM was added to all mechs it is almost a solid guarantee that all mechs would save a slot just for ECM.

I really like the idea of being able to manually target enemy 'Mechs; sure, ECM can deny the ability to hit R and just pick up whatever my sensors see beyond my eyes, but if I can see it, I can shoot it should be the same for missiles as well as direct fire weapons. CutterWolf suggested that they include a "target under reticule" key that would allow you to target enemies in your line of sight that you manually targeted, to use ECM. I really like it, it is a skill based counter (awareness), that doesn't require any additional equipment that certain 'Mechs can't mount, or are at a disadvantage using some of their limited hard points to mount.