105 replies to this topic

[Vermaxx]

I love that it comes with a major risk HERE that it never really had in tabletop. Since all hit rolls were random in tabletop, and legs are generally nearly as armored as a torso (with no front/rear facing), they were much harder to shoot through and juice a mech.

All you have to do here is use some lasers and melt that light-mech-leg, or learn to aim with cannons.

[Shumabot]

AMMO CAN MOVE THROUGH MY LEGS THAT CLEARLY HAVE NO SPACE FOR AMMO, NOR ANY POSSIBLE WAY OF MOVING THROUGH MY KNEES OR HIPS BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY!

Edited by Shumabot, 05 April 2013 - 07:01 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Why does this thread even have 5 pages. The best answer is simply "Because Battletech." Done.

[Shinikaru]

like this:


auto-loading from a chamber is perfectly feasible given the correct mechanism.
It's usually undesirable however in actual modern warfare, as the mechanism is prone to errors and jams, still requiring a human component to free, in which case why not just have people load them. (as all modern military do)

I can only surmise that in Mechwarrior, they have tech we haven't thought of yet.

[Klaa]

Techno Wizards did it

[armyof1]

Buddahcjcc, on 05 April 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

IMO ppl that think this should be irrelevant.
This game is based on TT's ruleset. If you want to play a game NOT based in Btech, theres one out there, its called Hawken

I wish people could finally realise TT left the building ages ago. From double armor to shooting without having a dice giving a random hit rate to choosing whatever loadouts we feel like using to increased fire rates to whatever else you can even imagine. And I don't even play TT and I still know this much.

Edited by armyof1, 05 April 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[DCLXVI]

im sure they put a lot of thought and careful deliberation into all of the features they put into mwo

[HeavyRain]

I think even worse than ammo is the fact that you can mount the jumpjets in the legs, with the flamy stuff blowing out your back....
I'm sure it's done with some sort of Reaction Mass Spatial Translocator found in a data core in 3024 by the pirate ship "Pirate Ship".

[LordDeathStrike]

dual ac 20 jaeger has too put ammo somewhere, and with an xl and a couple dhs to get it moving, its only got the crits in the legs left to use, and 1 in the head hehe

btw when you leg a mech with ammo in the leg, that ammo blows up, and has a very high chance of taking out the engine when it does, 100% chance if it had an xl engine.

Edited by LordDeathStrike, 05 April 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Squigles]

HeavyRain, on 05 April 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

I think even worse than ammo is the fact that you can mount the jumpjets in the legs, with the flamy stuff blowing out your back....
I'm sure it's done with some sort of Reaction Mass Spatial Translocator found in a data core in 3024 by the pirate ship "Pirate Ship".

Well, that's more a function of not having modular jump jets in the model. When you mount Jump Jets the only thing you're adding is actually an exhaust port, not the entire Jump Jet system. Also, this discussion about ammo mounting in the legs is just...derp. There's a reason why the HBK-4SP looks different then the HBK-4P. It's because it's built with different equipment. When you BUILD something to have something, the model (mech) reflects that...but since our lovely game doesn't remodel every body part when you modify it, we have mechs with spindly legs with ammo in them.

Edited by Squigles, 05 April 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[ColonelMetus]

i like robots

[Grayseven]

Merky Merc, on 04 April 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Because no system in BT is "logical" or even slightly realistic, that's why.



Your use of real world examples only reinforces the OPs point, those WW2 fighter planes also had their guns in the wings. Tanks keep their ammo in the turret, IFVs keep it in the turret, jets keep it in the cannons magazine (in a body that doesn't contort or twist mind you).

You don't need to even try to use real world examples though, BT is magic.

Not all WW2 fighter planes had guns in the wings. A number of German designs had guns in the nose and in the case of the Me 109 had a cannon that shot through the propeller hub.

The P-38 lightening had 5 guns in the nose and ammo for some was stored in the wings.

Most Japanese designs from WW2 had fuselage mounted MG's with ammo storage in the wings.

If they could do it in the 1940's, what makes you think that reliable feed systems to transfer ammo throughout a mech couldn't be made in 3050?

We could go bigger and use the Phalanx anti-missile systems used on naval ships. Ammo is stored inside the ship and fed to the gun locations on the deck.

In short, sufficient technology can overcome any obstacle. Also, it's ludicrous to complain about ammo storage in the legs in a game where fusion engines power large piloted robots shooting lasers. Just sayin'...

[Joseph Mallan]

Shumabot, on 05 April 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

AMMO CAN MOVE THROUGH MY LEGS THAT CLEARLY HAVE NO SPACE FOR AMMO, NOR ANY POSSIBLE WAY OF MOVING THROUGH MY KNEES OR HIPS BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY!

Yep. Those Legs on a Robot the size of a 2 story house. Yeah those Legs.

[Xenosphobatic]

Quite simply, the best explanation I've heard is that they lay ammunition transportation lines between the weapons and the ammunition dumps, allowing jam-free (unless it's a UAC) operation, even if the ammunition dump is in a moving part (keep in mind, arms move too).

[CynicalSaint]

I flew F-14 Tomcats for 7 years and the bullets were kept roughly 10 meters aft of the actual gun. So if cold war technology had the ability to internally transfer from one subsection to another just imaging what we will actually have in 3050. A mind is like a parachute, it only works when its open. Way to fall to your death with this topic, smh.....

[Bayamon]

Ammo stored in the legs is indeed ridiculous and eventhough its a made up world with made up technology it should still make sense within the world (not irl).

But i just live with it and dont want it changed (its not a game breaker for me)
I would be realy put off if we could mount weapons in the legs like we could in mw2/3.

Even if PGI decided that you cant put ammo in the legs, what do you do with the 4 crit slots ?
You cant install DHS there and not everyone uses ECM/BAP or JJs.

Move the crit slots to another location ? Where ? Side Torsos/Arms ?
That would make some previously impossible configs possible.

Its too complicated to do it properly and causes more problems than "fixing" a logical inconsistency in a fantasy world is worth it.

Edited by Bayamon, 06 April 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[Aim-Bot]

YEA. Well . how much immersion is too much immersion?
Remember this is not reality and even if it probably wouldnt make sence in reality for me its ok to have ammo in the legs.

[Vermaxx]

armyof1, on 05 April 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I wish people could finally realise TT left the building ages ago. From double armor to shooting without having a dice giving a random hit rate to choosing whatever loadouts we feel like using to increased fire rates to whatever else you can even imagine. And I don't even play TT and I still know this much.

You're right. You don't play tabletop. Double armor is a modification (doubling, in fact) of the tabletop rule. Aiming could happen in tabletop with equipment, and pilots could do it in the fluff. Load outs didn't mean anything in tabletop if you allowed custom mechs - MWO is far more strict. Fire rates went up by arbitrary values, yes.

If you'd played tabletop you would see how close the game still is.

[armyof1]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

You're right. You don't play tabletop. Double armor is a modification (doubling, in fact) of the tabletop rule. Aiming could happen in tabletop with equipment, and pilots could do it in the fluff. Load outs didn't mean anything in tabletop if you allowed custom mechs - MWO is far more strict. Fire rates went up by arbitrary values, yes.

If you'd played tabletop you would see how close the game still is.

It's pointless to claim things should be according to TT when there already are all these tweaks and changes to the rules in the first place and you know it. If I start a chess game with 3 queens, I can't still claim it's chess just because all other rules are still the same. MWO uses the parts that makes sense in an FPS and change the parts that don't. So asking for TT rules at this point is meaningless. What makes sense is asking for things that works in the game while avoiding parts that break it, which might or might not be according to TT.

Edited by armyof1, 06 April 2013 - 07:22 AM.

[Squigles]

armyof1, on 06 April 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

It's pointless to claim things should be according to TT when there already are all these tweaks and changes to the rules in the first place and you know it. If I start a chess game with 3 queens, I can't still claim it's chess just because all other rules are still the same. MWO uses the parts that makes sense in an FPS and change the parts that don't. So asking for TT rules at this point is meaningless. What makes sense is asking for things that works in the game while avoiding parts that break it, which might or might not be according to TT.

No one is asking for a TT rule, there's no TT rule regarding ammo, legs, or ammo and weapon locations. Where the person who said there was pulled that one out of is beyond me.

That being said, no, it wouldn't be chess. It would be a modified version of chess. Much as five card draw, 7 card stud, texas hold em, etc. are all poker, just modified versions. Much as this is a modified version of Table Top fit for live action...get it?