154 replies to this topic

[Vermaxx]

At this point I'm more interested in hijacking your thread into banter with Mild Monkey. Your thread is of no value otherwise, since there are mechs that do what you want. They just aren't the venerable Hunchback.

[AlexEss]

i might have missed it, but what do you suggest Inyc?

What is your idea to fix this problem.

It is a design... like the ears of a of a timber wolf or the right torso of a hollander...

Not much you can do to fix it.

Now it would help on a few models(J n H) to move the E hardpoints from right to left torso even if it breaks canon(i guess no TRO in front of me right now) and as noted the SP need no help at all it is a hot chainsaw to butter.

As for the G... Simply not much you can do... Like the YLW it simply have a terminal flaw. and the P... i guess the only thing you cam do with that is "kill things faster"

[Mild Monkey]

I want to merge the Hunchback and the Timber Wolf. I want the Timberback.

[Vermaxx]

Why not call it a Hunchwolf?

[Inyc]

AlexEss, on 06 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

i might have missed it, but what do you suggest Inyc?

What is your idea to fix this problem.

It is a design... like the ears of a of a timber wolf or the right torso of a hollander...

Not much you can do to fix it.

I mentioned it in the OP. There are a few different things they can do once they "quirk" the hunchback. Bigger engine is easy but boring. More armor for the hunch side torso is more interesting. As is having XL engines only only go into CT and Left ST. Unnerfing the Small Lasers would also help.

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

At this point I'm more interested in hijacking your thread into banter with Mild Monkey. Your thread is of no value otherwise, since there are mechs that do what you want. They just aren't the venerable Hunchback.

You're of no value. You can't seem to grasp the idea that there is more than one Hunchback variant, so you blindly stick to how well you do in the 4SP which is the one Hunchback that doesn't have the glaring hunch weakness.

[Vermaxx]

The 4G would be great, GREAT, with working machine guns. Three MG + three med pulse, magic.
The 4H is great with five lasers and a gauss. Or five bigger lasers and an AC10. Yes, you have to protect your shoulder.
The 4P MURDERS PEOPLE WITH NINE MEDIUM LASERS.
The 4J is kind of shart, but mostly because the 4SP has the same number of missile slots split over two SMALLER shoulders. Even still, the 4J has one more energy point and a large LRM-capable missile rack so it can fire clouds at a time.

More armor on a 50 ton mech isn't a quirk, its imbalance. Quirks are things like torso twist range, arm range, maybe hitbox love. What you just suggested is a game breaking bonus to one mech just to 'make up' for what you perceive as a game breaking flaw.

I like the Hunchback, you don't. Four of them keep most of their weapons in a big shoulder pod but can still zombie out almost as well as a Centi. Jesus, I'm running a 4G with an XL and I rarely die to torso death.

[Dasein]

Actually i wonder wiki states that


Restrictions Formula

• Maximum-Engine power rating cannot exceed 400 or ~8.5x the 'Mech's tonnage, whichever is lower.
  
• Maximum-Engine power rating with (round up to nearest 5 or 0):

• Light 'Mech = 1.4 x Stock-Engine
  
• Medium 'Mech = 1.3 x Stock-Engine
  
• Heavy 'Mech = 1.2 x Stock-Engine
  
• Assault 'Mech = 1.2 x Stock-Engine

So HBK indeed has maximum engine rating 260. But some centurions has the same stock engine and their restriction is 275, why is this so?

CN9-A

Overview Base: Centurion Introduced: 2801 Tonnage: 50 Class: Medium Cost:: 3,697,080 Cost: 1,480 Stock Equipment Engine: 200 STD Speed: 64.8 km/h Structure: Standard Armor: 272 (80.5%) Heat Sinks: 10 single Stock Armament RA: 1 Autocannon 10 LT: 1 LRM 10 CT: 1 Medium Laser CT: 1 Medium Laser Hardpoints Center Torso: 2 Right Arm: 1 Left Torso: 3 AMS: RT ECM Capable?: No Jump Jets: No Module Slots: 2 Chassis Attributes Speed (min/max): 32.4 - 89.1 ∟ Speed Tweak Bonus: 35.6 - 98 Engine Ratings: 100 - 275 Max Armor: 338 Pitch Twist Arms 30° 40° Torso 20° 100° ∟Twist X Bonus: 110°/120° Advanced Equipment None

Edited by Dasein, 06 April 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[Mild Monkey]

Timberback Hunchwolf, now that's the name of a kick as s native American as pictured by Marvel

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

I mentioned it in the OP. There are a few different things they can do once they "quirk" the hunchback. Bigger engine is easy but boring. More armor for the hunch side torso is more interesting. As is having XL engines only only go into CT and Left ST. Unnerfing the Small Lasers would also help.



You're of no value. You can't seem to grasp the idea that there is more than one Hunchback variant, so you blindly stick to how well you do in the 4SP which is the one Hunchback that doesn't have the glaring hunch weakness.

Yes, you are right. People are going for the hunch, but as a Hunchback pilot i know they will be aiming there, and only there, so I can actually counter this, lure them into maneuvers that will provide me with killshot opportunities. So yeah, I think there is a weakness but one that can actually be used to your advantage.

[AlexEss]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

I mentioned it in the OP. There are a few different things they can do once they "quirk" the hunchback.

1:Bigger engine is easy but boring.

2:More armor for the hunch side torso is more interesting.

3:As is having XL engines only only go into CT and Left ST.

4:Unnerfing the Small Lasers would also help.

1: This could work but would in reality do very little. The hump is not much harder to hit just because you are 10 kph faster

2: Pointless as it cut in to the tonnage and most HBK builds are fairly tight on weight as it is.

3: No... Just no... Then every mech with a side torso weapon want this one.

4: I was here during closed beta.. thanks but no thanks.

As i said it might be ok to move some hard points around

[Blackfire1]

I'm a medium pilot. Hunchies are fine. The only real thing I've sad about is being forced to add external heat sinks for engines under 225.

[WANTED]

I use Hunchback 4J almost exclusively. Yes when I lose that RT it's pretty much no fun from there but it does teach you how to maneuver and keep your weak side away from enemies.

I wish they would up the armor in the RT. If I built a hunchback and knew that was where all my weapons would be stored, I sure would make it have more armor in that section than any other.

[Kivin]

Quote

In my Jager, I just shoot his hunch twice. In my Cent, thrice. Once that's done, I've pretty much won. If I can get a back shot, its even faster. One shot from my Jager will destroy his back side, two in my Cent.

I think that's a symptom of the general issue with the game dynamics right now. Mechs are doing astronomically more damage than they were originally intended - a la ye olde MechWarrior or BattleTech TT. In this one thing, they both agree.

Hell, you can pit out an Atlas with many of the currently favoured designs in a matter of two or three shots. For this reason, I believe that placing blame on the Hunchback for under performing isn't really fair. Any 'Mech which lacks the HP Buffer and the speed to spread or evade an alpha-strike is going to experience exactly the same issues.

What we're caught in is a cyclic arms race of impulse damage and speed. More speed, more damage, more speed, more damage... Except that speed is capped, so that just leaves one thing. The 'Mechs which have neither the impulse potential to strip or core out their opponent, and insufficient speed to beat them in an orbit game are going to lose out hard.

Edited by Kivin, 06 April 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[Inyc]

AlexEss, on 06 April 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

2: Pointless as it cut in to the tonnage and most HBK builds are fairly tight on weight as it is.
4: I was here during closed beta.. thanks but no thanks.

for 2 I'm not talking about giving the Hunchback more total armor, just about opening up the hunch side torso to have more armor distributable to it. That armor would have to be taken from other parts of the mech. And I'm not talking about giving it a ton more either. Certainly not more than the CT.

For 4, remember that Hunchbacks have had a sever drop in speed due to engine limits since then, and state rewind has made light mechs less dangerous and isn't even fully implemented yet. In light of these getting the SL back up to the scaled range would be a faire balance point. As would be increasing MG range at the least.

[The Schwartz]

4P: DHS +9ML Standard armor standard internals... can run the largest Standard Engine..... I fail to see why you need an XL to make it *fast*. Granted being left with 2 ML after your shoulder gets blown off sucks.

The autocannon varients do get targeted quite quickly as you have a big sign that says AC/20 shoot one get 2 lasers for free.

I really wanted to disagree with the OP on this but, thinking about it loadout wise... I'd rather pilot a Cataphract 1x than a HB 4G in terms of both payload/versitility and armor. It's as fast and 100 more armor.

[Royalewithcheese]

Faster engine. Also if SRMs were less nerfed or there was a ballistic weapon that was viable on a medium, mediums in general would be less nerfed.

[lumpyspace]

Hunchbacks are fine. The hunch p is the only mech that can fire 4 large lasers (or 3 ppcs) from the same cockpit-level position. Easily the best long range medium, and it can be built as a brawler too, what's not to love.

I think the problem is people recommend new players buy the 4sp. It's simply nothing like the other hunches. It's a decent beginner mech, but the 4h and 4p have two of the best hard point layouts and locations of any mech.

Also, the sp doesn't even have a hunch. It should be ashamed of itself.

[Budor]

4P is great again with HSR and coolant, 4SP still is like anything with 4x energy in the arms.

Edited by Budor, 06 April 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Caladan Nix]

If they're gonna do a quirk for Hunchbacks, it should be that the ones with one hump get extra armor/structure for it.

Would make the most sense.

[Sephlock]

Caladan Nix, on 06 April 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

If they're gonna do a quirk for Hunchbacks, it should be that the ones with one hump get extra armor/structure for it.

Would make the most sense.

http://wiki.answers...._with_two_humps Just because your post made me think of them. I'm too lazy and distracted right now to come up with a decent connection .

[Khanublikhan]

I have been tinkering with my Founder's Hunchback recently. The AC20 is an oversized weapon for the mech's tonnage (hence its name of hunchback) which makes squeezing in anything/everything else a compromise. The canon design of the mech is flawed in order to give the mech exceptional, but limited firepower. The Hunchback, like the later Hunchback IIC is a desperation design.

No change required.

Edit: That said, I would love to see how it does when we get proper 12v12 designed Urban maps. You will be cursing the name Hunchback when they sneak up behind you and unload AC20 rounds into an exposed back.

http://www.sarna.net...i/Hunchback_IIC

Edited by Khanublikhan, 06 April 2013 - 01:17 PM.