354 replies to this topic

[Bren McGuire]

R+R was pay to win. Founders should have already tested the new player experience with another basic account and know better.

[sC4r]

i hope it wont be reimplemented at least not for standard battles as only thing it does is forces to think "omg if i miss this it will cost me 5000 C-Bills" so either peeps are too afraid to shoot or they simply skip ammo dependant mechs

also i dont think i have seen many suicide guys anymore at start of the game since this was removed

[TOGSolid]

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If you take an assault mech or XL the "FREE" R&R limit will pay a little off but your R&R cost will exceed a 100k. You feel what im saying.

And this still only punishes new and bad players. No matter how you try to coat it in gold and glitter it does. A new/not skilled guy is going to be locked out of riding in a shinier mech just because he's gonna be far more concerned with conserving C-Bills. That is not fun, that drives people away, and is just a bad system. Meanwhile guys like me who have two dozen mechs and don't give a **** about money will just take whatever they want anyway. That is hardly fair or balanced and is basically some straight up "us vs them, **** the new guy" ****. What part of that don't you get?

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R+R was pay to win.

In a funny way yeah actually. Premium players could give less ***** about what they took into matches which gave them a bit of an edge in a way.

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It would hurt the lonewolves, those that don't want to join, but if you want to push people to a more Team aspect of the game, than solo dropping, thats a good stick to do so.

Well aren't you just a self-righteous ****? Encouraging teamplay means adding systems that make it easier for everyone to participate. That means adding ways to highlight targets for everyone to focus at, that means adding in game voice comms, things like that. Not beating the new guys/casual players with a baseball bat and telling them to get the **** off our lawn.

**** like this really highlights the attitude of the people who want R&R back in. They don't care about the game as a whole and everything that entails, they just want to have their spergy little roleplay game that only appeals to their niche demographic. The people for it can't actually provide any actual evidence as to why it's a good system other than their anecdotal ******** that's all based in fantasy and general "**** the new guy" attitude.

Edited by TOGSolid, 07 April 2013 - 01:30 PM.

[Davers]

SteelJaws, on 07 April 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

I'd like to see R&R return.

It would bring more to the game than just drop, get destroyed, come back to a fully R&R'd mech and drop again.

That being said, I would like to see either the costs tweaked down a bit, or even better, a discount for being in a Merc Unit or House Unit.

It would hurt the lonewolves, those that don't want to join, but if you want to push people to a more Team aspect of the game, than solo dropping, thats a good stick to do so.

Just my 2cp.

So that is one vote for 'Let's punish new players for trying out this game'. *sigh*

[HugoStiglitz]

Yeah R&R really did punish heavier mechs and new people to the game. When R&R was in the game I would lose money for piloting my founders Atlas, that was with premium and the founders bonus. Now imagine that for a new player. For the people saying it would stop minmaxing, do you really thing there won't be a go-to minmax build even after repair and rearm is in the game? Do you really want more 3Ls taking the field because they are a safe build? Do you really want to obsolete an entire weight class?
Repair and rearm would only further entrench passive/defensive/'safe' gameplay. More people would be going for cap victories since you don't need to take damage for to win and you're going to be in lighter mechs anyway since they cost less. Overall we have a better system now IMO.

[Alphawolf]

I miss R&R a lot too. But sorry OP you are going to get so many whiney babies responding that they could not make money or that others were abusing not fully repairing before a match or some other lame excuse that themselves most likely did. It really comes down to the whiners do not know how to: 1.budget 2. build and pilot a mech within profitable perameters if real cost variables (rearm & repair) are implemented. and 3. wanted everything now but were unwilling to buy MC to get premium time.

[Eddrick]

I mostly, miss Repair and Rearm because it gave a bigger reason to use Energy Weapons.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Anyone Missing R&r?


As originally implemented...no.

[jay35]

If anything even close to R&R was to be put into the game, anything parasitic that steals from your winnings like that, then they ought to provide a way for warriors to invest their money to make dividends or earn interest on what they've accrued, which is how people compensate for things like maintenance costs. Interest could compound on, say, on a weekly basis. And we should be able to set our price for entering a match, as well. If you want realism and simulation, then playing along with that, I'm not putting my life on the line for 50k cbills. I'm asking 500k minimum per match, awarded to me if my team wins, and naturally we get nothing if we lose. But really, if you want to try to make it realistic, then okay, we'll roleplay that consistently, and in that case my life is worth a lot more than 50k cbills. Or you can just take your R&R elsewhere. It doesn't belong in MWO anymore.

[Mackman]

Alphawolf, on 07 April 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

I miss R&R a lot too. But sorry OP you are going to get so many whiney babies responding that they could not make money or that others were abusing not fully repairing before a match or some other lame excuse that themselves most likely did. It really comes down to the whiners do not know how to: 1.budget 2. build and pilot a mech within profitable perameters if real cost variables (rearm & repair) are implemented. and 3. wanted everything now but were unwilling to buy MC to get premium time.

We know how to "budget". We know how to build a mech according to "real cost variables."

We just don't think that a video game that NEEDS new and casual players to stay alive should look and feel so much like real-life work.

I'm sorry that you're incapable of arguing without resorting to the kind of insults that would be right at home in a 1st-grade classroom.

I'm sorry that you're incapable of creating actual arguments.

I'm also sorry that you feel that premium players should have a real, noticeable advantage over free players when it comes to the kind of equipment they should be able to consistently equip.

I hope you can continue your schooling and come back and actually contribute to the discussion in a helpful fashion. Have a great day.

[James Warren]

If you get stomped by a premade -> you pay more
If half your team is running suicide trials in order to pay for their big expensive assault and your team inevitably loses -> you pay more
If you like to play a mech that relies heavily on missile or ballistic weapons -> you pay more for ammunition
If half your team drops with zero armour because they cbf repairing -> you pay more because your team loses

Seriously, why do people insist that balancing gameplay with fairly arbitrary costs a good idea? People who can afford unlimited premium time can obviously load up all the expensive equipment with impunity, whereas people who cannot are forced to 'farm' c-bills just to play the mech they want (ie one that is a fully competitive build). Simply put, r&r costs are NOT going to stop people from running expensive builds with all the bells and whistles, they are only going to put those out of reach of the more casual players.

What is the point in making it a chore to grind c-bills, just so that for one match in three we can afford play our big, missile-toting assault mech that we enjoy?

If you want to reduce missile spam (is this even a problem?) there would be better ways to achieve this, such as reducing the number of shots per ton, so players are encouraged to conserve ammunition. Of course players who are wasting shots are already doing themselves a disservice, since they could take (for example) a heatsink and one ton of ammo as opposed to two tons of ammo of which half is wasted.

If every mech having endosteel, XL engines, etc is a problem, then the other equipment options need to be balanced so that these are sidegrades (ie choices) rather than straight upgrades. You can't expect to make things right just by slapping a bigger price tag on them.

[verybad]

I preferred it.

The QQs from people that couldn't make money while using XL engines ruined it for the people that wanted a more balanced, reasonable game.

Edited by verybad, 07 April 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[Davers]

Isn't it bad enough that you lose games because people have to grind out crappy mechs like the 4 ballistic Cicada, now you want to encourage them to not to even repair it between matches?

I'm sorry, but increasing the grind is not 'more realistic'. It doesn't make it 'more Battletech'. It just makes it 'more sucky'.

[Noobzorz]

Alphawolf, on 07 April 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

I miss R&R a lot too. But sorry OP you are going to get so many whiney babies responding that they could not make money or that others were abusing not fully repairing before a match or some other lame excuse that themselves most likely did. It really comes down to the whiners do not know how to: 1.budget 2. build and pilot a mech within profitable perameters if real cost variables (rearm & repair) are implemented. and 3. wanted everything now but were unwilling to buy MC to get premium time.

HEY GUYS. I AM A TEENAGER OR A BARTENDER OR SOMETHING, SO I DON'T MIND HAVING A SECOND JOB THAT IS MECHWARRIOR.

FOR THE ACCOUNTANTS AND UNIVERSITY PROFS AND DOCTORS WHO PLAY MECHWARRIOR, YOU SHOULD BE USED TO WORKING LONG HOURS ALREADY, UNLIKE ME, SO IT SHOULD BE A NATURAL FIT FOR YOU TO SPEND ALL YOUR LEISURE TIME ON A TREADMILL FOR IMAGINARY CURRENCY.

[Wolfyop]

I dont miss no armor red internal mechs.

[SteelJaws]

"Punish the new players"

"Elite attitude blah blah blah"

Nevermind that in the paragraph before it, I said that the costs should be tweaked lower.

I don't see how having repair and rearm makes it RP, but whatever. Nevermind that all of the previous games had it, Original Mechwarrior, Mechwarrior Mercs, and MechWarrior 4.

Oh wait, you must of played Mechwarrior 2 as a clanner and not had to worry about cash.

Is it too much of a grind/time sink? Welcome to online games, they are all grinds and time sinks. You grind now as it is for the xp for the mech, or for the pilot abilities.

I'm not saying ruin the game for the new people, but honestly if your going to have passive bonuses for conquering worlds and such, running a Merc Unit one of the parts of that is managing repairs and such.

Flame on.

[El Death Smurf]

it's an argument of roleplaying immersion vs. having fun. xl engines are already a balanced money sink, costing millions and killing you when ever you lose any torso. lrms are already expensive and risky to equip, sinking more tonnage into ammo than any other wepon in order to function, making your mech a walking jar of nitroglycerin. there's enough balance aginst lrms already.
i think you are all silly if you want mech tax back.
i dont miss it.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

TOGSolid, on 07 April 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

And this still only punishes new and bad players. No matter how you try to coat it in gold and glitter it does. A new/not skilled guy is going to be locked out of riding in a shinier mech just because he's gonna be far more concerned with conserving C-Bills. That is not fun, that drives people away, and is just a bad system. Meanwhile guys like me who have two dozen mechs and don't give a **** about money will just take whatever they want anyway. That is hardly fair or balanced and is basically some straight up "us vs them, **** the new guy" ****. What part of that don't you get?


In a funny way yeah actually. Premium players could give less ***** about what they took into matches which gave them a bit of an edge in a way.

Well aren't you just a self-righteous ****? Encouraging teamplay means adding systems that make it easier for everyone to participate. That means adding ways to highlight targets for everyone to focus at, that means adding in game voice comms, things like that. Not beating the new guys/casual players with a baseball bat and telling them to get the **** off our lawn.

**** like this really highlights the attitude of the people who want R&R back in. They don't care about the game as a whole and everything that entails, they just want to have their spergy little roleplay game that only appeals to their niche demographic. The people for it can't actually provide any actual evidence as to why it's a good system other than their anecdotal ******** that's all based in fantasy and general "**** the new guy" attitude.

Hey hey hey. Bad players have always been on the low. That will never change. The people who loose are just earning 60k a match, atleast with this they can have the remaining 100K free repair + earnings from loosing. The absolute reason people like me want R&R back in because we don't want a simple narrow minded MechWarrior game. We want a financial, strategic, intelligent matches. R&R is realistic and does separate the fools from the strategic. If your worried about the loosing players its already been implemented as the person who plays the first 15 matches receives 8.9mill c-bills. Jesus man. If you want to see hard grind you should play Hawken or World of Tank and then you would see that MechWarrior is being more than generous. Why don't you explain a way to make R&R work instead of denial constantly and prove a point and dude im not saying lets have the old R&R. why not improve it so your more to win on a positive than negative earnings.

Edited by Xenois Shalashaska, 07 April 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[Davers]

Xenois Shalashaska, on 07 April 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Hey hey hey. Bad players have always been on the low. That will never change. The people who loose are just earning 60k a match, atleast with this they can have the remaining 100K free repair + earnings from loosing. The absolute reason people like me want R&R back in because we don't want a simple narrow minded MechWarrior game. We want a financial, strategic, intelligent matches. R&R is realistic and does separate the fools from the strategic. If your worried about the loosing players its already been implemented as the person who plays the first 15 matches receives 8.9mill c-bills. Jesus man. If you want to see hard grind you should play Hawken or World of Tank and then you would see that MechWarrior is being more than generous. Why don't you explain a way to make R&R work instead of denial constantly and prove a point

Why is punishing bad players so important?

I have an idea- when you lose MWO automatically uninstalls. This will simulate the time needed to repair your mech.

[FupDup]

SteelJaws, on 07 April 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I don't see how having repair and rearm makes it RP, but whatever. Nevermind that all of the previous games had it, Original Mechwarrior, Mechwarrior Mercs, and MechWarrior 4.

In MW4 repair only existed in singleplayer mode (a setting where it actually makes some sense), and you only had to pay for it if your mech reached one of two pre-defined levels of damage ("Damaged" and "Crippled"). Rearm didn't exist at all in MW4.

MW4's multiplayer featured neither.

Edited by FupDup, 07 April 2013 - 04:44 PM.