162 replies to this topic

[Dishevel]

Roadbeer, on 08 April 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Be that as it may, it's not a "Complete Failure". Ok, I'm going to make some assumptions here, but from them, you'll get the general idea.

Let's say there's 40k players on a weekly basis with varying degrees of activity. I'm basing this off the times I play and the frequency I see the same people on the OPFOR. I may be being generous, but again, this is for demonstrative purposes.

Of those 40k, I see maybe 1000 forum visitors through the course of the day, so forum population represents 1/40th the gaming population. Of those 1000 forum visitors I've seen maybe about 40-50 people describe/complain about the last patch (That didn't have their issues resolved by the hotfix or updating their drivers). That equates to just under one half of one percent of the gaming population.

So, the suggestion at hand, is to rollback the patch to the last stable build and refund the MC because of 0.5% of the players of the game. Is that what you are both arguing so vehemently for?

0.5% is not what I am seeing from my chats with other players in game.
Talk about the bugs in game. I think that the number of people who are having them and the frequency of them for those players may surprise you.

[Roadbeer]

l4Dl, on 08 April 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

[/size]

Honestly, we can all make figures up. But without a precise data (which PGi doesnt have) how will we ever know?

Curious, whats your current beer of choice? i'am quite fond of Stella artois

True, We can all make up figures to prove our points, I was just relating that for the many of us who have stable environments a rollback seems more than a little extreme. Aside from the Kaleidoscope, many of these are old bugs, just seems to have a higher rate of frequency for some. Not to be dismissive of those having problems, but I would expect a rollback for an entirely new creature that effected EVERYONE, not an old creature rearing it's ugly head for some.

Current beer of choice: I'd have to go with Firestone Walker Double Barrel Ale, out of Paseo Robles, CA. Stella is a good choice. I was an account rep for Anheuser-Busch for 5 years and have had more than my fill of it, but I do enjoy it when someone else is buying

But the 3 best beers in the world are:

3.) Cold
2.) Free
1.) Free & Cold

Edited by Roadbeer, 08 April 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[MischiefSC]

l4Dl, on 08 April 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

As you are not a coder, i dont expect you to fully understand my previous posts.
In reference to my message to Garth, i simply replied to his "joke" post in a manner in which seems to appeal to him.

As you're just here saying you're a coder and yet making suggestions (here, let me fix your code PGI, I'll just do it in a day) that I can't imagine any of the 30+ coders I've worked with would ever even consider doing since they work professionally in the field and realize how just unimaginably silly the suggestion is would ever make I hope you'll understand that I'm dubious that you actually know a whole lot about it yourself.

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As a developer myself, acknowledging "complete failure" can sometimes be hard to admit. However, a rollback here would be the logical solution, simply reference the tech forums for proof of gamebreaking bugs.

If you're a game developer then why are you posting here and not speaking through industry channels? Chatting them up at GDC and the like? The last patch wasn't a 'complete failure'. There's still tons of people without issues playing away. I'm suspicious that the bulk of people with issues are ones that were using SweetFX, film grain removal or other tweaks on their own - forum goers to begin with and hence more prone to responses on the forums. That, again, you don't see the difference makes me question your mastery of the subject. Unless you're privy to the metrics on actual drops from game, declines in active player numbers or anything like that which would give you legitimate data from which to draw that sort of conclusion?

Quote

With all due respect to PGi, their past record of game production isnt "admirable". Simply look at their metacritic results from both critic and user for previous game titles.

Made products, got them to market. They wrote a good enough business case to get the license from Microsoft. Anything beyond that... well, once again. You've got an opinion, that's great. So does everyone else.

Quote

As above, i dont work for PGi, however, load up the game and hold backspace. Does it simply stop once its been pressed?
I offered a working resolution for this for 10 minutes of my time, please see here, http://mwomercs.com/...pace-bug-fixed/

Correction. You made a casual request of 'give me access to the source code and I'll just fix the game for you' and got laughed at. Which I consider pretty reasonable. If you were someone with the sort of industry reputation that would warrant a 'give me a sword and I'll win this war for you' attitude.... you wouldn't be saying it on the forums. You'd be saying it in person.

So, pull the other one. It's got bells on.

[MischiefSC]

Dishevel, on 08 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Yup. I am saying that they need to make sure that they from now on separate that which makes them money from that which can kill the game.
I have never stated that the new mech borked the game. Only that the new mech is the reason they have not just unborked it.

Please show me the actual factual data backup up your assumption. Because all you've got right now is an assumption - that somehow they couldn't just re-patch all the data but the new mech if it was that easy. That's the most common hotfix I tend to see when I'm helping with UAT in the business software that I work with. Something creates an issue in an update and that particular change is essentially 'patched out', leaving the rest of the content in place.

The presence or absence of the hero mech in the patch is irrelevant to the technical issues themselves and unless you've actually got something to imply otherwise what you're doing is stating, from a position of ignorance (which we're all in) that somehow the release of the hero mech has anything at all to do with their willingness to actually roll a patch out - instead of the fact that the patch adjusted shaders, maps, splash damage on missiles, consumables and a crap ton of other things that to 'roll it back' isn't like dusting crops back home.

I get that you're frustrated and it can be very easy to just assume that because someone doesn't do what you think they ought to do it's because of money, or they just don't like you or don't care or whatever. Right now though what you're saying doesn't have any basis in any facts available to us, unless I'm missing something. If there's a quote from PGI saying 'the problem with rolling it back is the hero mech or we'd just have done it' then link it up.

Otherwise though all you're doing is making a baseless assumption and representing it as fact. That's what I'm challenging.

[jakucha]

They probably would have rolled it back if they were getting an immense amount of support tickets from people saying they simply can't play. However, I'm guessing a majority of people can play, they're just getting HUD bugs mostly.

[Zolaz]

Garth Erlam, on 08 April 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

I appreciate you're angry, but understand that, 'I'm having HUD problems' isn't a light-switch fix. There's no magical button, or line of code, that will 'fix' it. If we could fix it quickly, why wouldn't we? What possible scenario would have us cackling in glee as our game had an error?

As soon as we can, we will hotfix or patch the issue out.

As soon as I can, I'll get back to playing your game. However, when I cant tell who my enemy/team mates are or where the enemy is, or which of my points are being contested on Conquest, or why my HUD isnt working or why the compass isnt working or why the minimap isnt working ... I'll find something else to do.

Good Luck, hope I dont find something better to occupy my time while you get your act together.

[l4Dl]

MischiefSC, on 08 April 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

As you're just here saying you're a coder and yet making suggestions (here, let me fix your code PGI, I'll just do it in a day) that I can't imagine any of the 30+ coders I've worked with would ever even consider doing since they work professionally in the field and realize how just unimaginably silly the suggestion is would ever make I hope you'll understand that I'm dubious that you actually know a whole lot about it yourself.

As you have 20+ years experience in business, you may have forgotten that human beings have two modes:
1. Business/work time
2. Play/casual Time

My offer was in 2. (casual time). Time which doesnt need to be spent focusing on making money.
As i cant work on this in 1. (business time), thats the best i can offer.

MischiefSC, on 08 April 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

If you're a game developer then why are you posting here and not speaking through industry channels?

As above, i'am not looking for employment, i am customer who is offering free assistance in my casual/play time.

MischiefSC, on 08 April 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

Made products, got them to market. They wrote a good enough business case to get the license from Microsoft.

If you really want to go down this route, MW:LL (the cryengine 2 mod) had the license previously, and, was removed in early 2013.
MW:O uses Cryengine 3 with very similar .lua scripts that were originally made in MW:LL.

MischiefSC, on 08 April 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

Correction. You made a casual request of 'give me access to the source code and I'll just fix the game for you'.

Not everyone is out there to make money from everything. Some people actually offer their assistance to a problem out the goodness of their hearts, because, they would like to see this game "succeed".
But due to your business side, it seems your too quick to ignore that.

MischiefSC, on 08 April 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

So, pull the other one. It's got bells on.

The only thing we are pulling here is time, our casual time, being wasted on justifying each other.
Not everyone is out there to make money, some people actually offer their spare time to help others, just try not to forget that.

Edited by l4Dl, 08 April 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Ravill]

Bug bashing does not generate revenue.

[Chavette]

Team Leader, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Since we are making ridiculous claims, can we get viable MGs?

I have to agree, I think lately, Garth has been going little overboard, when literally half your posts are trolling, you're not community manager, you're community troll, which we have just enough of as it is.

[MischiefSC]

l4Dl, on 08 April 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

some stuff

Here's the thing though. You're saying that you're going to spend some spare casual time to work on a group coding project - you going to at least coordinate via conference call with the rest of the team? What changes are you going to make that someone on staff at PGI can't?

Not even going to get into it. It's not about money it's about professionalism and business. It's very polite of you to offer to donate your time to do some coding for PGI. I'm just at a loss trying to imagine any business generating a paid product that could or would accept such an offer or even take it seriously.

Chavette, on 08 April 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

I have to agree, I think lately, Garth has been going little overboard, when literally half your posts are trolling, you're not community manager, you're community troll, which we have just enough of as it is.

Probably related to PGI getting a page of troll threads every day. Can't blame him for getting frustrated but I would say it'd probably just be better to ignore than post in them.

[Monsoon]

Quote

Why Do We Have To Wait?

Because patience is a virtue.

Because good things come to those who wait.

Your pick.

Edited by Monsoon, 08 April 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Viper69]

Garth Erlam, on 08 April 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Actually, that doesn't happen.

I appreciate you're angry, but understand that, 'I'm having HUD problems' isn't a light-switch fix. There's no magical button, or line of code, that will 'fix' it. If we could fix it quickly, why wouldn't we? What possible scenario would have us cackling in glee as our game had an error?

As soon as we can, we will hotfix or patch the issue out.

What is baffling to me is you let the patch go live with the bugs. Surely your in house testers saw them right? So what was the reason to push this live to us? Maybe instead of pushing your Highlander patch out you should have hung on to this one a few more weeks, some people cant even play the game, are you refunding their premium time? Nevermind I know the answer.

[Roadbeer]

Viper69, on 08 April 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

What is baffling to me is you let the patch go live with the bugs. Surely your in house testers saw them right? So what was the reason to push this live to us? Maybe instead of pushing your Highlander patch out you should have hung on to this one a few more weeks, some people cant even play the game, are you refunding their premium time? Nevermind I know the answer.

[sigh]...

Good patches happen, bad patches happen...

[Viper69]

Roadbeer, on 08 April 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

[sigh]...

Good patches happen, bad patches happen...

SIGH...No really? My point is they had to be known bug, surely we weren't the first to encounter them do you think?

[Roadbeer]

Not necessarily. There are a lot of configurations, and you can't replicate every setup, driver, OS, peripheral software, etc.

Do you really think they're saying, "There's this showstopping bug for some, but we're just going to push the patch through to sell the HM?

Seriously?

[l4Dl]

MischiefSC, on 08 April 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

You're saying that you're going to spend some spare casual time to work on a group coding project - you going to at least coordinate via conference call with the rest of the team? What changes are you going to make that someone on staff at PGI can't?

Seems a little "crazy" i agree, but i generally believe i can resolve/optimize the hud/map issues within a few days.
I dont need to work with the team, or have conference calls to begin with.
The whole process will involve a in-depth look at the code, identify the current process/function methods which may be causing the fault, then, testing those findings using a debug build.
If successful, then it goes to discussions with the dev team. This saves wasting any time on their part and mine.

Without looking/testing, i would take an initial guess that the cause of the hud/map fault is due to the loading process and/or syncs from client/server whilst in the startup animation phase.
For some reason, the HUD is not being initialized "in correct time", or, is not being flushed/reset from memory at game exit phase.

Again, those are just guesses based on how the issue currently occurs. But thats where i would start to look in terms of the code, throw a few timers in there to delay certain areas of the loading process, and, print current variables which will allow me to underpin the issue at hand.

Its all good fun!

Quote

I'm just at a loss trying to imagine any business generating a paid product that could or would accept such an offer or even take it seriously.

Yeah, i completely agree. But sometimes, if you dont ask, you dont know.
I've been following the recent builds of this game closely, and, the same issues keep appearing which could relay to major faults in the design of the code.
I thrown the option out there, its really down to PGi if they want to accept the help.

Maybe a fresh set of eyes wouldnt go a miss?

Regardless, my "casual/play" time is nearly up, so, time to play the game for a few, hopefully, without HUD issues

[l4Dl]

l4Dl, on 08 April 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Regardless, my "casual/play" time is nearly up, so, time to play the game for a few, hopefully, without HUD issues

1st game



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[MrPenguin]

Roadbeer, on 08 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

I'm going to come back on this and disagree.

I remember in middle school, there was a computer class offered which I took. Without giving away how old I really am, we were taught basically two things in the class, BASIC and LOGO, neither of which were terribly useful to know 10 years down the road.

It did, however, act as a good metaphor for helping me to understand the concept of Cause and Effect, which when learned young, can be incredibly useful.

I would agree with you, if it weren't for the fact that most teenagers are immature and destructive. And this is from someone who was an immature, destructive teenager.

The amount of mischief one could do at that age and get away with is actually kind of terrifying.

[Aethon]

MaddMaxx, on 08 April 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not picking on you here but your request is "flawed" at a fundamental level. If for even one instant, the Dev could be assured that no one would abuse it, as in, unless it could be guaranteed that "everyone" who wanted it turned off, would in fact turn it back on when the "fix" was in, then it makes little sense to even ask for it.

Besides, not everyone is having enough of these issues to warrant "turning off" anything.

I never said this was the course they *must* take; I simply said it would be 'a nice gesture'. It would say a lot to the community if they were willing/able to do it.

Also, yes, we are having tons of these problems. When trying to run a league match the other night, we had to actually drop 9 times just to get 5 drops in, because both teams were experiencing HUD bug after HUD bug, and we ended up settling for a few people simply having no IFF indicators...which kind of makes league matches hard to pull off. If I recall, we only had 2 drops out of those 9 when all 8 people on our team had no HUD bugs whatsoever.

[Lazydrones541]

I for one do not have any "major" issues. Cant say that I have since the hotfix. (those issues were really only with others on my team disconnecting...

My computer runs the game perfectly why doesnt yours?? (Get a better computer?)
(Makes about as much sense as: why you no fix problems I have)

For the love of all that is big and stompy; if programming is this rediculous in which they just want to sit back and watch you stew in your glitchy seat I need to find a new educational path.

You basically have to wait.. Until those bugs can be squished.. Or at least until enough people have squirmed in their rediculously small wordls that revolve around themselves.