47 replies to this topic

[Der Hesse]

I think there is something wrong with the ability of the Spider to take damage since the last two updates. I learned through my last hundret games since those updates that it is nearly impossible to do heavy damage to Spiders. No matter what weapon hits them and no matter how much weapons hit them they only get very small amounts of damage. Not only did i see this and wondered how this is possible. It was discussed in ingamechat several times. Also my lancecomrades did see the same thing. Best i saw was my last fight today where a Spider faced a Stalker without even trying to avoid his dual ER PPCs and other weaponry. It got hit like 10-15 times by both ER PPCs and additionally by several other weapons while firing back without even trying to evade most of the hits. The Stalker finally killed it, but got nearly cored by the 2 lasers of the Spider. I could clearly see, that the Stalker did hit her all the time and that her armor got weaker, but everytime just a Little bit like she was hit by a small laser or a machinegun and not by dual ER PPCs. I tried to kill Spiders with various weapons and it was the same every time. So whats wrong with this and why didnt anyone post this before since everyone in ingamechat seems to know this phenomenum?

[Roland]

Most likely, the shooter was missing with most of their guns. They may have been hitting with some of it, probably a small portion of laser fire, but most of their big hits were probably missing.

I kill spiders with my PPC's... They're just really jumpy, and skinny. I haven't noticed them being any tougher than other mechs though.

[Kargarok]

Last night I think I pumped 10 or so AC20 shots into a spider. I'm pretty sure not all of that had to do with the host state rewind stuff not being in yet, but still it seemed to take alot more abuse than possible.

On the flip side, shortly after the last patch I was running a 4 PPC stalker and one shot a spider with an alpha strike.

[Der Hesse]

The Stalker wasnt missign her. And besides that i did like hundret games before im now sure that there is something wrong. I had an Encounter where i did hit a not moving Spider with 4 medium lasers in the back. It was carefully aimed and did hit perfectly since the Spider didnt notice my approach. Guess what i got? A yellow armor. Nothing more. When i do this to medium or heavy mechs they are red or internal.

[Roland]

Like I said, I suspect that you aren't hitting the target as well as you think.
When I'm in my jagermech with AC40's, when I land a shot on a spider it gets ruined... likewise with my PPC's.

You're playing from Germany though, so I suspect that your network connection is going to be affecting your experience.

In terms of lasers hitting the spider and only doing trivial damage, that could be a result of some kind of network lag (even against non-moving targets, there have been cases where a mech isn't where it appears to be).

Or maybe there really is some kind of hitbox issue.. I've just never noticed it myself, yet.

[Der Hesse]

Well, i hit all other mechs pretty fine. Even the commandos go down within 3-4 hits of my 4 medium lasers. If it was a Problem with my connection or other technical stuff i should encounter it there too. But i dont.

[Orzorn]

Host state rewind will help greatly with hitting mechs with ballistic or ballistic-style (PPC) weapons.

Also, spiders are tiny and weapons tend to barely miss them due to convergence.

[Mypa333]

Der Hesse, on 09 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

The Stalker wasnt missign her. And besides that i did like hundret games before im now sure that there is something wrong. I had an Encounter where i did hit a not moving Spider with 4 medium lasers in the back. It was carefully aimed and did hit perfectly since the Spider didnt notice my approach. Guess what i got? A yellow armor. Nothing more. When i do this to medium or heavy mechs they are red or internal.

From a Spider pilot perspective, I run only XL engine and I move armor to my back as much as to 60% Front - 40% Back. I know that I always get in brawls with other lights that can keep up with me and most of the times I am the one being chased and I need to protect my back (from the damn Streaks fired by damn Ravens 3L.) and I always try to turn my torso after firing my weapon, in order to get more damage to arms than my torso.

To be honest, I do not know how PPC damage is counted if it's more of a splash or just a direct hit to one of the components.

Yesterday, I was playing the trial Dragon, that has the Gauss Rifle. I hit a Spider from 300 m, clean hit, got an arm right off.

And since the first patch of March, I get more damage to legs than ever. I had to drop a heatsink to get more armor on my legs.

The issue of the thread must have been because of lag or because of a good skilled pilot that from time to time, uses the jump jets to avoid being hit, not big jumps, just small push that can make the enemy mech miss by little.

[DemonRaziel]

I have seen several claims lates of players having a hard time damaging Spider, so there might be something to it.

Personally, I have not noticed this when playing my 5D... the thing is that people usually miss me or just barely scratch me with a laser. But when they do hit me, I really feel it. I don't mean when they just touch me with a laser for half a second, that is a barely noticable damage... But pulses, streaks, successful hits with balistics can wear me down pretty easily when/if they CONNECT.

I think that a claim like this would be best accompanied by a video showing the immortal Spider in play... that way we'll be able to make our own judgements based on what we see there...

[PanzerFurrry]

Despite it's size, Spider mech with 210 points of armour is fairly well armoured, between Raven/Jenner (238 points of armour) and a Commando (175). Not enough to trade hits, but enough to survive a salvo or two. That makes it one of the best 'armour per profile' mechs in the game. Taking into account the high speed and jumpjets, Spiders are slightly harder to take down then other light mechs.
Therefore it doesn't surprise me to hear that people are having problems with Spiders, but that doesn't necessary means that Spiders have incorrect hitboxes. It is probably due to weapons not hitting the target at all or a dispersion of laser hits all over the mech. From my experience playing with Spiders, laser convergence is low, but those Autocannons and PPCs do hurt. Being cored in one hit by AC40 is nothing uncommon.

However there is one particular bug that has been reported many times. Sometimes PPCs (and probably other ballistics) tend to bypass front armour and hit the back of your mech. Heading towards enemy mech and getting shot at with PPC in the face will damage your rear torso. I have experienced this in first person (on a Spider and Jenner) and seen it on other players stream.

Not sure what is causing it, high speed glitch or netlag, but that might be the problem for weird hits, not incorrect hitboxes.

Edited by PanzerFurrry, 09 April 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Durant Carlyle]

People have no problems killing me when I'm in my Spiders. And I have no problems killing Spiders when I'm in my Jenners. I've never seen a problem with them absorbing more damage than they should.

[Dwight Derringer]

As a person who primarily pilots spiders, I can assure you that they are not taking more damage than they should. Have we been taking MORE damage in the last few weeks than before? I think yes, but we'll just have to learn to avoid those who can aim well now.

[Mechafruit]

As a spider pilot, and spider killer, I can tell you that there is nothing wrong with spiders. If you're having any problems hitting one and doing low damage, that issue would be lag, and the lack of host state rewind. When an AC/20/Gauss hits a spider, they feel it. Spiders are very small, skinny and fast. Remember that lasers are the most reliable weapon to hit with at the moment until ballistics get HSR.

[Der Hesse]

Some game yesterday: 120 SSRM and countless lasers into the same Spider before it went down. There is no real LAG or aiming explanation for that. Cant take videos because theres no such function in the game. But good to hear that this Problem isnt for the whole community since most of you have normal encounters with Spiders. Ill just ignore them now and let others hunt them. ^^

[Mypa333]

120SSRMs that could have been dodged or shot out of range or shot on water.

As I've stated before, post patch I get more damage in my Spider than before.

[FrostCollar]

I've shot Spiders many times and I haven't noticed any issues regarding their hit detection. If you're experiencing an issue try to get it on video so we can all see it. Use a free program for that.

[Roland]

Was testing some stuff last night and wasn't able to reproduce the OP's issues. I was ripping limbs off of spiders pretty cleanly with a single volley from an AC40 mech.

[Durant Carlyle]

120 Streaks into a Spider and it didn't go down? Bull puckey. That's more than a ton of Streak ammo. Even the best 'Mech pilot in the game (whoever that is) cannot dodge that many Streaks.

The only way you could have fired 120 Streaks at a Spider and not killed it is if you were firing from more than 270 meters away.

Besides, in the time it takes to fire 120 Streaks, a good Spider pilot would have killed you. Hell, even a bad pilot would have by then.

[Dwight Derringer]

The above video was taken last night. I end up taking down an Atlas with only a little help at the end. I go on to do almost 700 damage this game. I'll upload the rest of the match if anyone is interested.

I think that this proves the worthiness of the spider. If not, then I'll simply go out and collect more proof.

Durant Carlyle, on 10 April 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

120 Streaks into a Spider and it didn't go down? Bull puckey. That's more than a ton of Streak ammo. Even the best 'Mech pilot in the game (whoever that is) cannot dodge that many Streaks.

In my experience, about 10 volleys of streaks kills me. That's 5 volleys from a raven and 2 from a streak cat.

Edited by Dwight Derringer, 10 April 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Roland]

Quote

I think that this proves the worthiness of the spider. If not, then I'll simply go out and collect more proof.

Don't get me wrong, your piloting in that clip was well done, but that atlas was pretty terribad. Most of the fight he just stood perfectly stationary and whiffed on shot after shot.