252 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

ciller, on 09 April 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

I would like to know why PGI has decided to do this.

Because Paul got the short end of a Goon bowling train and got the mechanic yanked

[Yokaiko]

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

It's basically to show the point that bigger =/= better. Implementing physics 1:1 would be pretty terrible, but what people in this thread propose is the polar opposite.

...and you are absolutly correct, speed counts exponentially more than mass in a collision. In fact when you are calculating the collsion the masses merg, so it would be the jenner's KE- the Atlas KE divided by the mass of the entire system.

Suffice it to say the parts would land a couple zip codes away.

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Don't you have to take 1/2 of the mass, or is it 1/2 of the product of the velocity side and mass? (I assumed the former, that might be my issue).

Yes, for KE, not for momentum. so multiplied by 17,500, my mistake.

Edited by Yokaiko, 09 April 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

It's basically to show the point that bigger =/= better. Implementing physics 1:1 would be pretty terrible, but what people in this thread propose is the polar opposite.

Judging by the tone of most of the people in this thread, they want a tractor beam to pull in mechs that weigh less than themselves, and whenever they hit something their own armor gets repaired to full and the enemy's mech is deleted from their account.

or at least not having fast moving mechs getting legged by candy wrappers or did they ever fix that?
I kinda gave up on lights when running along on flat ground your legs go yellow for no apparent reason (the explanation being you take fall damage for every slight elevation change or rock you pass over)

Id like to see thew ability to fall, but then again ID like to see the skidding/falling rules too.
IE where you can trip/skid/fall when making turns at speed like you do in TT.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 April 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[FupDup]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

or at least not having fast moving mechs getting legged by candy wrappers or did they ever fix that?
I kinda gave up on lights when running along on flat ground your legs go yellow for no apparent reason (the explanation being you take fall damage for every slight elevation change or rock you pass over)

They did fix the candy wrappers thing a while ago, you can fall off some pretty high heights without taking damage if you're slowed down enough (i.e. fall off the ledge in Frozen City and take no damage if you're somewhere around ~30 KPH, I haven't tested to see the limits of the threshold).

Edited by FupDup, 09 April 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

I can debate it about as well as you can prove that the paul situation have ever happened outside of that one video. I dont think you understand the phrase 'representative of normal gameplay' so you might want to go upstairs and ask your mother to explain it to you. (also yes that was an ad hominem attack, please dont inform me of that in your response)

I wont, Ill just report you for it as they look for that kind of thing.
Have fun with that though

Since you cant debate this topic without resorting to attacks, Ill be ignoring you now, at least you realize you lost. Good day sir.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 April 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[jakucha]

So you're proposing everyone start whining and that will help them add collisions again faster? That's basically MWO forum in a nutshell.

[Yokaiko]

Oh and for giggles I did the collision.

....After plowing the atlas the jenner would knock the atlas backwards at 46.8kph.......assuming a perfectly elastic collision head on with the jenner going 150 and the atlas going 63.

lol faster than the atlas can reverse. I think that would dictate a fall......even if they didn't turn into mush in the impact.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Since you cant debate this topic without resorting to attacks, Ill be ignoring you now, at least you realize you lost. Good day sir.

That is one great feature of the forums...the ability to put people on "ignore." Wish such a feature existed for ingame chat!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Oh and for giggles I did the collision.

....After plowing the atlas the jenner would knock the atlas backwards at 46.8kph.......assuming a perfectly elastic collision head on with the jenner going 150 and the atlas going 63.

lol faster than the atlas can reverse. I think that would dictate a fall......even if they didn't turn into mush in the impact.

Yeah but the lighter mech would get pasted against the Atlas' legs. Like a bee on a windshield lol
Hence the mythbusters video up there

Lukoi, on 09 April 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

That is one great feature of the forums...the ability to put people on "ignore." Wish such a feature existed for ingame chat!

I like how all the This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Megalosauroid. View it anyway? dissapeared lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 April 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Yeah but the lighter mech would get pasted against the Atlas' legs. Like a bee on a windshield lol

They would both be paste, you are talking terajoules of energy. It wouldn't be a matter of the jenner would take damage, there would be little bitty pieces scattered all over a field that you would measure in square kilometers.

A joule is a newton*meter...newton is kg (m/s^2)...essentially the same force, just different units.

Edited by Yokaiko, 09 April 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

They would both be paste, you are talking terajoules of energy. It wouldn't be a matter of the jenner would take damage, there would be little bitty pieces scattered all over a field that you would measure in square kilometers.

A joule is a newton*meter...newton is kg (m/s^2)...essentially the same force, just different units.

ya true.
Remember the charging damage rules in TT?
I dont think they truly reflected that lol
I dont remember off hand, who took the more damage, the charger or the one being charged or was it the same?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mega, it wasn't ONE bugged Mech, it was the entire collision system, it was broken, very badly broken, in fact, FUBAR is the only way to describe it accurately, hence it being removed until they can redo the entire collision system so it's not FUBAR.

I can bring my Atlas moving at 62kph to a complete stop within 10m of my target, not an issue at all, and that has nothing to do with the fact that a stationary Mech 20m away that I'm NOT moving towards would somehow trip my Mech as I walked in front of it. The collision system was bugged to hells and back, it was removed until they can get it working not only properly but also working as they want it to work. Can't do a DFA when every collision, regardless of mass and speed, does 1 point of damage to both parties. They are having to force the engine to do things it wasn't designed to do, not the only subject they are having to deal with this problem on either.

And Yokaiko, I would LOVE for them to put in all the movement physics, losing speed while going uphill, water impacting movement and causing you to fall if you hit it at too high a rate of speed, losing traction while moving too fast on a paved surface or ice or mud and falling due to that, oh hell yeah. I'd still pilot my Spider like a bat out of hell, but I'd learn to compensate for the terrain, something that right now, I don't have to do AT ALL. And it's something they could do, probably take a bit of work, but they could do it. Problem is, most people have a hard enough time WITHOUT those factors being in the game, and putting them in would definately drive most of the new folks away, not to mention a lot of the people who've been here since CB and STILL can't figure out how to drive a Mech...so I don't see it happening. A proper collision system, yeah, that I see happening, but it takes time and we just have to wait.

BETA..that is what we have right now folks, we literally do not have a minimal viable product, there's no GAME here, just SOME Mechs and weapons and a few maps to make sure they work as designed, which as we all know, isn't always happening. I'm good with waiting for them to get the collision system working properly and not putting in some jerry rigged system as we had in CB.

And Fup, I did say that a Jenner hitting an Atlas at that speed would be dead and the Atlas would at least lose a leg I've SEEN the actual results of a small car, 3000lbs or so, hitting a hay hauling trailer(approx 30000lbs) at a full right angle at over 100mph, directly in front of my house at the time. The frame of the small car was compressed to 1/3rd it's original length, doors literally popped off the car due to the impact. The trailer was moved laterally 1 full meter, and that was due to it being on a dirt road, on pavement it would have moved even less and there would have been no survivors in the small car, and that allowed all 5 people in the car to survive, although some of them spent many months in the hospital and the driver was never able to walk again. The trailer by the way had it's paint scratched and 1 tire blown out. The car was beyond totaled. The guy pulling the trailer thought he might have accidently gotten some of the trailer's tires into the ditch when the impact happened, but the sound of the crash itself let him know exactly what had happened.

You can do the math all you want, but in the real world, there's a lot more factors to deal with than JUST the straight up mass and velocity of each object. By the MATH, the trailer should have taken a lot of damage, as the KE released was not small, but simple things like structural support crossbeams and heavy steel allowed it to soak the impact without any damage to speak off, scratched paint and a blown tire.

[Yokaiko]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

ya true.
Remember the charging damage rules in TT?
I dont think they truly reflected that lol
I dont remember off hand, who took the more damage, the charger or the one being charged or was it the same?

Pilot rolls were involved.

as I recal it reflected mech wieght and engine sized with a couple divisions, but its been +15 years and I'd have to look it up.

[PappySmurf]

Because I don't think PGI listens to its fans so ill just play till the game dies and move on.

[Multitallented]

They should try putting collisions back in while the game is still in beta. If they don't they risk huge bugs in full release and lots of new players would leave as a result.

Once again, PGI makes terrible business decisions.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Multitallented, on 09 April 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

They should try putting collisions back in while the game is still in beta. If they don't they risk huge bugs in full release and lots of new players would leave as a result.

Once again, PGI makes terrible business decisions.

once again why I think this is less a business and more a sociological experiment to see what players now a days are willing to be put through for their game IP of choice

(thats a joke)

[Corvus Antaka]

Im a lot more worried about the current jumpjets, the LRM situation, the ECM situation, the SSRM situation than I am about collisions. until that stuff is fixed, collisions need to take a backseat. but as part of all these things collisions are a major issue too - DFA right now would be pretty lame with current jumpjets, highlander burials near non-existant.

[Yokaiko]

What is wrong with jump jets?

It would be nice if you could actually turn (hello Spider) but they work find other than that.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

You will notice though, that collisions got yanked faster than any other thing theyve ever chosen to change in this game, after the Paul vs Goons fiasco. Took two weeks to pull. How long have we had ECM and been crying over that? And what did they say there "we dont want to knee-jerk" but collisions... yeah that NEEDED to be knee jerked lol

[Screech]

Monday Night Football was getting lame in CB. They pulled collisions because the player base can't be trusted not to grief broken mechanics.

Removing collisons made the game worse but they had no choice. Hopefully they figure out a way to put it back in but I am not sure. My suggestion would be to make collisions extremely damaging to both mechs. Make it so if you are ramming someone you are only going to do it once.