124 replies to this topic

[Sean von Steinike]

Running lights got kinda boring without collisions.

[pseudolife]

I want to love light mechs, i just cant. I pilot them almost exclusively, only changing up with one of my founders mechs for variety occasionally. my opinion is also probably tainted by my recent insistence on using a spider, which i feel is only helpful on conquest. and even if we win a match due to my capping i still get the lowest score in the game. sigh.

[Zylo]

Eboli, on 10 April 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

I have no issues with knockdowns as long as it can be fairly applied across all mech weights. I was around in Closed Beta so know the consequences of not watching where you are going or light mech tackling tactics (didn't like but it was part of the game).

Being an optimist I would like to think (hope) that there would not be too much QQ about collisions but fear the result of the forums outrage when it does come back in.

We would probably see less lights about but those lights you do see will be ones to fear as they will mainly be very capable pilots.

Cheers and glad to see everyone on this particular topic putting forward rational and objective posts. Wish most topics were like this!

Eboli.

I think state rewind has already chased most of the light pilots away who chose lights for the lag shielding. Collision knockdowns will probably have the greatest effect on the heavies and mediums that just push thru everything trying to get a shot in. They will try to push past that Atlas, Awesome or Stalker and get knocked down.

[Erasus Magnus]

Zylo, on 10 April 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

I think state rewind has already chased most of the light pilots away who chose lights for the lag shielding. Collision knockdowns will probably have the greatest effect on the heavies and mediums that just push thru everything trying to get a shot in. They will try to push past that Atlas, Awesome or Stalker and get knocked down.

at this moment, there is only state rewind for lasers in effect. and it shows. if ballistics and missile state rewind comes into effect, it will be a slaughter! right now there are enough pilots out there that can shoot dual ac20s into a running and zig zagging fast light mechs knees.
when ballistic state rewind hits, i honestly dont know how i am supposed to survive in my 5d...
i hope i will still have my niche, outside of just running into the wild and do the cap racing thing.

Taron, on 10 April 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Well, the Spider / Jenner / Raven should be restricted as the Cicada IS! If it would be that way, no one would have any issue wth the lights. In fact, this means:

Restriction to maxium 3 Weapons.

my spider 5D has 3 medium pulse lasers. i am alright then, yay!

pseudolife, on 10 April 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

I want to love light mechs, i just cant. I pilot them almost exclusively, only changing up with one of my founders mechs for variety occasionally. my opinion is also probably tainted by my recent insistence on using a spider, which i feel is only helpful on conquest. and even if we win a match due to my capping i still get the lowest score in the game. sigh.

scores arent applied correctly imho. damage done and kills made are the predominant stats, leaving out harrassment skills, decoy, annoyance, damage tanked (which spider s are extremely good at imo) out of the picture.

as long as light mechs are supposed to do the same thing as heavies and assault to get good ratings, there will be no fitting meta for lights.
when ballistic state rewind hits, lights will be nothing but bystanders and occasionally chase other lights around, im afraid.

i hope i am wrong though and everything stays nice and fluffy for lights.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 10 April 2013 - 11:12 PM.

[Pereset]

<Sigh> What I keep hearing is that light mechs should be nerfed. If that is the case, I feel that AC20's should be nerfed, as well as lrm's, as well as streaks, as well as Gauss, as well as SRM's, as well as PPC's and ER PPC's. Why not nerf the entire spread of weapons and mechs? Because what you are implying, is that since small mechs are able to dance around the larger mechs, then the speed of the smaller mechs should be nerfed as well. The purpose of the scout mech was to be able to be fast enough to avoid weapons fire from larger mechs. As it is, larger mechs are now able to more easily hit light mechs with weapons fire. If you are not able to do so, I suggest that you utilize the training grounds. Let me give you an example. I just completed five missions. I used an assault Hero mech for the first one, taking out three players within about 5 minutes with 2 ER PPC's, 1 Gauss and 4 SRM's. The last player that I took out said "So you're one-shotting?" I said "Yes". He thought I was cheating. The second game, I played my Raven 3L in River City at night. My Raven has 2 medium lasers and 2 SRM Streak missiles. I took out 3 players again...all light mechs...and contributed to the destruction of a Stalker, working with my team. The third and 4th matches were in Caustic Valley, with 2 separate Cataphracts, both armed with at least 2 Gauss and medium lasers. I took out 1 player in the third match, and did not take out anyone in the fourth match. In my last mission, I did 527 points of damage with my 3D cataphract, which has 2 Gauss and 3 medium lasers. I took out a Jagermech, a Raven 4x, a Raven 3L, a Hunchback, and was the last player on my team, working on a Stalker and an Atlas RS, when I was finally taken down. Now...you are saying that light mech effectiveness should be nerfed. I think that with my description, I have just proven that what you are saying is only indicative of your need to practice using the weapons that you have. If I can take out that many mechs, with the weapons that I have, then perhaps you need reevaluate your argument. I personally do not feel that light mechs need to be touched at all...only the professional effectiveness of the player in the opposite mech. I have played against good players when I pilot my light mech, who have had no problem in taking me down. I really hope that PGI does not listen to your argument, because I personally think that they have done a terrific job of balancing the mech classes. Try playing your assault mech against heavy mech players who pilot House Kurita, House Steiner, House Liao, House Davion, House Merik, or any of the other houses. Try playing against them in an 8-man match, and see whether or not you stand up to them. There are some very good players, who use excellent tactics and strategies in those matches, who utilize different mechs, styles and weapon configurations, who can wipe out your team in a matter of a few minutes...regardless of how many light mechs you have. I've been in that light mech, dancing around them, and believe me, they took me out in seconds. THOSE players showed me that it takes skill in mastering your mech. Maybe if you are having problems battling light mechs in a larger mech, what you need is to do the same. Or join one of the houses and learn how coordination can make a difference in a match.

[Taemien]

Kell Draygo, on 10 April 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Because the game becomes what it is suppose to be. You unload damage on Mechs, get pummeled in return, lasers and missiles flying everywhere, robots exploding left and right. It's what makes the game fun.

Taron, on 10 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Well, the game Assault/Heavy vs.Assault/Heavy is what i know from the books, and what i expect from a Battletech base game - not that high speed running around i know from lights. As i wrote: I myself use the Cicada, not a heavy to get XP/Money ....

Apparently you two know nothing of the Davion Light Guard RCT. In the books an entire Cappellan Confederation heavy/assault unit surrendered upon hearing their foe was the Light Guards rather then try to fight them. They were also responsibile for much of the gains by the Fed Suns in the 4th Succession War.

TehSBGX, on 10 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Well lights might you know, fit some one else's play style. Yours leans towards heavies and assualts, mines leans towards mediums. I actually have alot of fun backing up lights, they got a bit more speed and I've got a little more firepower making a nice one two punch I also like backing up assualts/heavies they bing firepower while Bring agility.

Just becuase you don't like lights doesn't mean other players should lose something that leans towards their playing style. It's fine if you like being big and loaded with weapons, keep sticking to it if it makes you happy. Just don't ask pgi to punish people who have a different style by removing lights.

But fighting lights puts them out of their comfort zones, of course they will call for a nerf. It won't be long till that once they realize nerfs won't be coming that they will use peer pressure to get players to play how they think they should play. Calling them cheap, exploiting, ect. Well they actually already do this. But god forbid if you ask them to simply aim, skill based solutions are taboo and blasphemy in this community.

Denno, on 10 April 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

No lights = more fun is generally true as there are more fights to the finish and less loss to cap.

Fighting me in a light mech will result in not losing to a cap, but losing in a very undignified and embarrassing way. And collisions in CB didn't stop that from happening. Don't think collisions added back in the game will keep you safe.

[Manapaws]

Because Light mechs, by design, are not supposed to be engaging in fights and brawls like they do in this game. It's ridiculously embarrassing to see how badly PGI has slaughtered the power structure.

[DerSpecht]

Manapaws, on 11 April 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

Because Light mechs, by design, are not supposed to be engaging in fights and brawls like they do in this game. It's ridiculously embarrassing to see how badly PGI has slaughtered the power structure.

The design was changed to make light pilots have fun in the game. Staying at distance ab scouting / tagging the enemy is BORING! PGI managed to make light playable. If they were what some ppl want them to be noone would play them.

[Taemien]

Manapaws, on 11 April 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

Because Light mechs, by design, are not supposed to be engaging in fights and brawls like they do in this game. It's ridiculously embarrassing to see how badly PGI has slaughtered the power structure.

Oh really?

I've seen light mechs do what they do in MWO in the TT game. For example an Owens (35 ton mech, very closely related to a Jenner) go toe to toe with a Loki (clan 65 ton Omnimech). I've seen Jenners and Commandos go toe to toe with assault mechs like Atlases and Goliaths.

Be glad you have a mouse to aim and shoot lights in MWO. In TT, if played properly, having a +7 or +8 on a hit roll due to speed makes impossible shots on a 2d6.

[stjobe]

Taron, on 10 April 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Well, the Spider / Jenner / Raven should be restricted as the Cicada IS! If it would be that way, no one would have any issue wth the lights. In fact, this means:

Restriction to maxium 3 Weapons.

I think this may be the stupidest suggestion I've read on these forums. Quite an accomplishment, sir.

[Profiteer]

I've come to the conclusion that people who think lights are annoying or OP are just bad players.

I have no trouble killing any light in my: atlas or stalker.

[Taemien]

Profiteer, on 11 April 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

I've come to the conclusion that people who think lights are annoying or OP are just bad players.

I have no trouble killing any light in my: atlas or stalker.

Its not so much that they are bad players, though that is a large part of it. Its that they believe players should all play as they do. Lights pull them out of their comfort zones and make games and strategies not so certain.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Light mechs used to be a pain because lag problems meant they were very hard to hit and the magic combination of lag-shield + streaks + ECM + dodgy hitboxes made the Rave 3L too powerful. Recent changes are bringing them back to where they should be. At last .

[MrDrunkenMaster]

And this my friends is why we need a private game lobby system. Having played games with fully user controllable lobby, its what this game really misses. With a proper lobby you can set the map rotation, limit the units types, and set elo cap/minimum. Fancy a game with only assaults and heavies and veteran players on Forest colony ? No problem ! I find it odd that this game does not have it, as its a Counterstrike clone and most CS servers has these features 10 years ago. Also opens up Solaris type user controlled tourneys and 1v1 matches.

[Morang]

Few lights already. Less than 12%. This is twice less than should be in case of even prominense of weight classes (all 25%) and 2.5x less than typical Inner Sphere weight class distribution (30/40/20/10 percents L/M/H/A).

[RainbowToh]

Taemien, on 11 April 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Oh really?

I've seen light mechs do what they do in MWO in the TT game. For example an Owens (35 ton mech, very closely related to a Jenner) go toe to toe with a Loki (clan 65 ton Omnimech). I've seen Jenners and Commandos go toe to toe with assault mechs like Atlases and Goliaths.

Be glad you have a mouse to aim and shoot lights in MWO. In TT, if played properly, having a +7 or +8 on a hit roll due to speed makes impossible shots on a 2d6.

Mouse aim = Double Armor

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

MrDrunkenMaster, on 11 April 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

And this my friends is why we need a private game lobby system. Having played games with fully user controllable lobby, its what this game really misses. With a proper lobby you can set the map rotation, limit the units types, and set elo cap/minimum. Fancy a game with only assaults and heavies and veteran players on Forest colony ? No problem ! I find it odd that this game does not have it, as its a Counterstrike clone and most CS servers has these features 10 years ago. Also opens up Solaris type user controlled tourneys and 1v1 matches.

As long as the private lobbies have no impact on Community Warfare, if a small group of players wants to limit their MW:O experience to just "what they want", no problem. I enjoy the different playstyles that the different mechs require to contribute to a win.

Also, saying this game is a clone of any other until it is complete is inaccurate. I hope MW:O has the longevity of games like Counterstrike, but it has barely been in development a year.

[RainbowToh]

Profiteer, on 11 April 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

I've come to the conclusion that people who think lights are annoying or OP are just bad players.

I have no trouble killing any light in my: atlas or stalker.

Well as long you are not caught alone with a good light pilot who is going to stay with your tail like a fly.

[Morang]

RainbowToh, on 11 April 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

Well as long you are not caught alone with a good light pilot who is going to stay with your tail like a fly.

(Yawn) Working as intented then. PGI wanted lights to be viable class, not redshirts. Rock-paper-scissors.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Without any form of collision detection lights are always going to get an artificial advantage. L2P does not hold water as a counter argument to this statement. 6mths for a fix is not acceptable given that the game is essentially released and that PGI keep trying expand the ways they can make money.

EDIT:

It is not good enough to say 'but we have teams working on differnt things'. The team tasked with network engineering problems should have been the priority team from day one and should have been sorted a long time ago.

A right s h i t storm kicked off when the latency and sync issues first came up as it was pointed out to PGI that had they tested the Engine properly before using it, they would have flagged these issues a long time ago. Some of you will remember the velocity restrictions that came into place as a short term fix.

A A A in but 'art' only.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 11 April 2013 - 02:12 AM.