115 replies to this topic

[OneEyed Jack]

Methinks the OP went from running a Stalker with pilot skills such as Anchor Turn x2, Twist Speed x2, and Speed Tweak to a completely untrained Atlas, lending the illusion that Stalkers move better.

I've Mastered both and Stalkers have roughly the maneuverability of an oil tanker, and despite the Stalkers vaunted firepower, I will (and have) take my Atlas against any Stalker build and lay odds on the Atlas.

[Harmin]

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Having mastered the stalker, I expected the atlas to be bigger, slower, and have more firepower.

I was mistaken.

Its turning radius is abysmal. Its turning speed is worse. It has restrictive hard points. I can't stand its ridiculous gorilla arms turn every mole hill into complete cover for your target.

The way weapon balance has been tweaked means that you will always be able to carry more weapons than you can effectively use (think crits and double vs single hear sinks in the context of faster fire rates).

Moral of the story is that tweaks to the TT numbers have unintended consequences (I am not a zealot said please don't flame) and TT values are not perfectly balanced (no one ever customized a mech to carry 4 ac2's lol) but short of the ddc, the Atlas is worthless. The stalker is better in every way (hardpoints, mechanical response, heat efficiency).

What do you think?

Get all the Elites. Any new chassis without Elites and 2X Basics will feel rubbish. Try out the A7-RS, its 4 energy hard points in the arms will make you feel more at home after using a Stalker.

-Armin

[Kurayami]

people forgetting one phrase "having mastered stalker" so basically what op saying is: atlas y u no ppc boat??????

Edited by Kurayami, 11 April 2013 - 02:54 AM.

[Mycrus]

Mastered all my atlai

If you are running 300s you are doing it wrong

[Evil Ed]

Harmin, on 11 April 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

Any new chassis without Elites and 2X Basics will feel rubbish.

And on no chassis this is more obvious then on the Atlas, the 2 x Basics makes a huge differance. The Atlas goes from being a mediocre walking turret to a feared killing machine.

[Grabes]

Mycrus, on 11 April 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

Mastered all my atlai

If you are running 300s you are doing it wrong

Really now? I run 300 in my D and do just fine.

53 kph is slow but once you have x2 you don't even notice.

[MisterFiveSeven]

NARCoMAN, on 10 April 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I disagree but I don't have time to explain why. Hope this helps.

Thank you for helping make these forums worthless, juvenile and condescending. I'm so honored that post was worth the wasted space to you.

Back to business, I typically run a 340 st in my atlases, of which the ddc and d are elited. I'm still working on the rs, so it's not like i'm dropping in cold. For comparison, I normally ran a 300 or 310 standard in my stalkers.

The wonky arms may not be a problem for anyone else, but I'm having significantly more trouble hitting things under 100m with arm mounted ppcs. I don't ever remember convergence being this bad on any other mech.

I think it really may come down to puggin (teamwork) and the atlas's gigantic silhouette. You are a sponge and the enemy team will be very unforgiving for every second they can see your hulking frame. And if you do get stranded/cut off/happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, you are not going anywhere; you're going to die.

It also may be this patch. The game is significantly more jumpy than it's ever been for me before, and I've never had the shot reg problems that I've been having recently.

[Alilua]

Atlas can use ballistics. Also the atlas can take reasonable arm damage while stalkers tend to take torso damage instead. I feel atlas is a much better brawler and I prefer them over a stalker anyday.

[jeffsw6]

I don't agree that a larger engine is essential in Atlas. If you can stay near some teammates, extra maneuverability is just not needed. Upgrading from STD300 to STD350 costs 11.5 tons (though it does allow you to install two more DHS w/o slot cost.) If you move two DHS into the engine and spend 8 slots on Endo-Steel you are still giving up 6.5 tons and 8 slots for that engine upgrade.

Inappropriate1191, on 10 April 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

The atlas D and DDC have 2 ballistics in one area, but are clearly meant to wield the biggest, baddest cannon you can fit on the thing (I will say, however, dual Ultra-5's are a very good thing for an atlas. It's just that you're usually better off with AC/20 or Gauss). So, it's not always easy to get a balanced, winning combination of arms with an atlas.

I think the UAC5 jams way too much to be useful. I understand that some people macro their mouse to reduce jamming, however it still often jams on the first shot. I think this is not the way it is supposed to work and I wish it would be fixed.

The fast fire-rate of UAC5 means that twisting to avoid fire is also costing you DPS. I like the AC/20 better for this reason.

Noobzorz, on 10 April 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Arm mounts suck. Suck hard. They fire from weird angles that seem like they should be unobstructed by cover, but wind up with you pouring laserfire into the top of the hill or the side of the slope you're standing on. Shoulder mounts are about a zillion times more useful.

If you think that arm mounts suck, you are not piloting the mech right. They are much faster and can aim further. With that said, if you don't like mechs with arm-articulation, don't pilot them.

Ramrod, on 10 April 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Fun fact: the Stalker CT is just about as easy to hit! You know just under the huge phallus you can see a little bit of robo-crotch that holds its legs together? That little bit of robo-crotch is CT, whether you're in the front or in the back. This is true of every mech, but the Stalker has a particularly large robo-crotch hitbox.

Do the right thing - always shoot a Stalker in the goolies.

I will keep this in mind!

[Joseph Mallan]

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Having mastered the stalker, I expected the atlas to be bigger, slower, and have more firepower.

I was mistaken.

Its turning radius is abysmal. Its turning speed is worse. It has restrictive hard points. I can't stand its ridiculous gorilla arms turn every mole hill into complete cover for your target.

The way weapon balance has been tweaked means that you will always be able to carry more weapons than you can effectively use (think crits and double vs single hear sinks in the context of faster fire rates).

Moral of the story is that tweaks to the TT numbers have unintended consequences (I am not a zealot said please don't flame) and TT values are not perfectly balanced (no one ever customized a mech to carry 4 ac2's lol) but short of the ddc, the Atlas is worthless. The stalker is better in every way (hardpoints, mechanical response, heat efficiency).

What do you think?

See I am of the opposite Camp. I prefer the Atlas over the Stalker(and I like the Stalker). The stalker has the more restrictive turn radius, it is just as slow, you don't get a single Ballistic slot. What The Stalker does it does well but the lack of torso twist was a bad nerf in my eyes.

Want better speed on your Atlas. go with a large (350xl) engine. That also speeds up your rotation and turning speeds dramatically. Or at least dramatically enough that you will notice it when you are using the VLAR again.

I am not trying to tell you what to use or that you are wrong, just there is nothing wrong with the Atlas for my use. I personally want the Stalker to have a normal twist radius, That would make me more prone to use one.

[Corwin Vickers]

FerretGR, on 10 April 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

I think it's cute when Stalker pilots think they can brawl with my Atlas.

You don't think the 5MdLas 5 ASRM6 or 6MdLas 4 ASRM6 stalker builds put out more damage?


Isn't turning speed based entirely on your engine (and the perks)?

Is there really a base turning speed for different chasis?

I have both mastered btw and I usually prefer the stalkers because you don't have to manage energy, missile, and ballistic leads, only the energy and missile.

I also really like my 5 LgLas stalker with the current meta.

[LackofCertainty]

I only have my founder's atlas and a stalker 5M to compare, but I tend to prefer my atlas a lot. Here's some thoughts for you:

1. Don't bother with arm PPC's.
LL's work better for dealing with brawling, which tends to be what you're doing in your atlas. Also, LL's give you enough room to mount 2 extra dhs's per arm. PPC's only allow space for 1 DHS per arm.

2. You are a damage sponge. Torso twist is your friend.
If you get cored before having lost the majority of your armor from your arms/torsos, you are a failure as an atlas pilot. Atlases have nice big shoulder-pad arms for absorbing damage, and everyone loves trying to cut off their side torsos to take out those weapon systems, so it's pretty easy if you try.

As a sidenote, you need to fairly heavily armor your arms, even though no one ever tries to cut off atlas arms. Your arms are your first health bar, essentially. Try to make sure your arms are down to internals before you let an enemy take your corresponding side torso.

4. AC20 or 2xUAC5.
If you don't have one of these mounted on your atlas, you're doing it wrong. Both of these setups work extremely well with point #2.(I say this, even though my atlas currently has 2 MG's mounted, but I do stupid stuff for the sake of experimentation) AC20 gives you that big burst of damage and fits with torso-twisting very well. UAC5's you can turn and shred enemies, until they jam, and then twist away to protect yourself until they clear themselves.

5. Practice makes perfect.
Most atlases are harder to play than most stalkers. It's easy to boat 1-2 weapon types on a stalker, whereas you will have at least 3 types of weapons mounted on your atlas. (probably 4 types if you're in a D)

P.S.
Leg Turning and speed are based on engine.

Torso twist and arm movement is based on the chassis.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 11 April 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[jeffsw6]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 April 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

Want better speed on your Atlas. go with a large (350xl) engine. That also speeds up your rotation and turning speeds dramatically.

I tried XL350 in my D-DC and I found it to be a huge liability. I changed back to STD300. However, the D-DC is often a priority target for opponents; while the other Atlas variants seem to attract a bit less attention.

[Mycrus]

Grabes, on 11 April 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

Really now? I run 300 in my D and do just fine. 53 kph is slow but once you have x2 you don't even notice.

try a std 360 -- twist & turning is much improved...

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

but short of the ddc, the Atlas is worthless.

The Atlas-RS says Hello.

Ever tried 4xLL+Gauss or 4xPPC+Gauss?

Yeah, I call ******** it cannot carry more firepower, that mech in the hands of a good sniper is redikulous

[FerretGR]

Corwin Vickers, on 11 April 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

You don't think the 5MdLas 5 ASRM6 or 6MdLas 4 ASRM6 stalker builds put out more damage?

5 Md Las, 5 ASRM6 = 17.5 DPS.
6 Md Las, 5 ASRM6 = 16.5 DPS.

I run an unmastered Founder's Atlas when I'm in the mood to simulate running though quicksand. Its loadout (pretty sure I have this right, it's been a while since I wanted to run through mud):
2LL, 2UAC5s, 2SRM6s = 17.84 DPS.

So you come at me, convinced that you're putting out more damage than me, when in reality we're at best pretty much equal, tipping the scales slightly in my favor. I have, at max armor, almost 100 more armor points than you. Face to face, an Atlas kills a STK (at least that build) every time IMHO, based on the numbers. Of course pilot skill enters into things but we're simply talking about damage output.

Add to that the distinct advantage that I have in terms of the ability to shoot you at angles using my arm-mounted lasers, and I'll take an Atlas 10 times out of 10.

I have to admit my bias: I cannot stand STKs. I like fast mechs in general (if you haven't gathered that) and if it's not fast, it has to at least be able to twist and turn and shoot at angles when the faster mechs come around. The abysmal torso twist and lack of articulated arm-mounted weapons make the STK by a long shot my least favorite mech.

Edited by FerretGR, 11 April 2013 - 05:14 AM.

[Kell Draygo]

Atlas arms seem bugged. It seems like the lasers that shoots from it are shooting from much farther out of the Mech. So many times that the left arm or right arm laser clips a wall/building when you can easily walk through a gap.

[Grayseven]

Even with a big engine, the Atlas is slow. It doesn't retreat well so any advance you make has to be properly planned so as to not leave you hanging with your Fatlas swinging in the breeze when your team mates all decide to run.

The weapons mix on the chassis are nice even if I personally believe their aren't enough of them on the D and D-DC variants. Big arms should have more than just 2 energy hard points on them...

Atlas' are targets though. They are so huge that often people shoot at them just because they tower above everything else in sight. Nothing says "shoot me" like an Atlas cresting a rise...

[Mechteric]

The Stalker to me is a great support mech, but as a Brawler and front line mover the Atlas simply holds itself better. The fact that it can use its arms to soak even more damage than you'll see a Stalker do is a huge boon.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 11 April 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[Zrave]

I have a master unlocked DDC I never play because I hate how low and wide the arms are, I have to expose so much of my mech to fire over terrain that it's almost suicidal, especially with the slow movement.

It's something you can get used to but why should you when you can just play a stalker instead? The arms on the stalker are perfect! Love the hull-down fire.