95 replies to this topic

[Shumabot]

Vassago Rain, on 12 April 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Set a level inside a star league bunker complex, so you can't get bird's eye intel.

You're functioning under the belief that intel is needed in MWO. It isn't. You can just use water-flow to see where everyone will go in 95% of matches. Players follow the patch of safest and least resisitence and that generally means following a pre recorded pathway to the most logical engagement point. What PGI needs is for players not to know the location of eachothers spawn points, and that doesn't work when you have to protect a stupid oil rig or give your teams location away capturing one of six.

[Jman5]

Playing people who hump ridges with PPCs all day is why I base capture. You force them to split up and fight against your brawler loadout. Of course they will cry and scream at you to fight honorably (aka: standing on the ridge and be their PPC target practice).

I seriously wish people would cap more to force these idiots to bring more balanced teams.

[Shumabot]

Jman5, on 12 April 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Playing people who hump ridges with PPCs all day is why I base capture. You force them to split up and fight against your brawler loadout. Of course they will cry and scream at you to fight honorably (aka: standing on the ridge and be their PPC target practice).

I seriously wish people would cap more to force these idiots to bring more balanced teams.

Or that sniper team could just base camp and win against you instantly. All you're encouraging is for the game to get even more static and stupid.

[Vassago Rain]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

You're functioning under the belief that intel is needed in MWO. It isn't. You can just use water-flow to see where everyone will go in 95% of matches. Players follow the patch of safest and least resisitence and that generally means following a pre recorded pathway to the most logical engagement point. What PGI needs is for players not to know the location of eachothers spawn points, and that doesn't work when you have to protect a stupid oil rig or give your teams location away capturing one of six.

B-b-b-b-b-but muh archon daughter oilrig and gundanium cauldron boxes with integral ridges and 85% wasted space.

[Jman5]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Or that sniper team could just base camp and win against you instantly. All you're encouraging is for the game to get even more static and stupid.

PGI designed most base spawns to be horribly exposed specifically to prevent base camping. One or two can hide behind the oilrig building, but that's it. So if they want to sit on their base and camp, it gives your teammates with ranged weapons the ability to fire from cover. River City upper spawn is probably the biggest exception, but it's a tiny map anyway.

Either way, if they want to hide in their base that's still playing into the brawler's hand. It means I can get in close and fight them.

The game speaks for itself. If it was an instant win as you claim, people would do it nearly every game. But they don't because it's self-defeating in most cases.

Now if you're talking about positioning your team in a way that gives you time to respond to a base camp that's a different story. But again, you're forced to move into range of a brawler.

Edited by Jman5, 12 April 2013 - 10:41 AM.

[Roland]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

What PGI needs is for players not to know the location of eachothers spawn points, and that doesn't work when you have to protect a stupid oil rig or give your teams location away capturing one of six.

Yes, randomized spawn location and reworking of the capture mechanics could dramatically improve the gameplay.

However, I suspect that it may result in the current 15 minute time limit being too short.... Back in the day, in MW4, we had matches that lasted an hour.

Also, given the attention span of some players, who think that spending 8 minutes in a game is too long, I'm not sure how that would play out.

[Shumabot]

Jman5, on 12 April 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

PGI designed most base spawns to be horribly exposed specifically to prevent base camping. So if they want to sit on their base and camp, it gives your teammates with ranged weapons the ability to fire from cover. River City upper spawn is probably the biggest exception, but it's a tiny map anyway.

Either way, if they want to hide in their base that's still playing into the brawler's hand. It means I can get in close and fight them.

The game speaks for itself. If it was an instant win as you claim, people would do it nearly every game. But they don't because it's self-defeating in most cases.

Now if you're talking about positioning your team in a way that gives you time to respond to a base camp that's a different story. But again, you're forced to move into range of a brawler.

What are you talking about?

Forest colony: Bote spawn shorline areas are great for sniping from
River city: The upper spawn point has a huge advantage and is a glorious firebase
Alpine: Both spawn points have ample cover and good sight lines to their surroundings
Forest Colony: Is the only map you can't spawn camp with PPCs
Tourmaline: Both spawns have 2000+ meter sightlines right outside them with ample cover

You are plainly wrong.

Roland, on 12 April 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Yes, randomized spawn location and reworking of the capture mechanics could dramatically improve the gameplay.

However, I suspect that it may result in the current 15 minute time limit being too short.... Back in the day, in MW4, we had matches that lasted an hour.

Also, given the attention span of some players, who think that spending 8 minutes in a game is too long, I'm not sure how that would play out.

They'd only last an hour because the map design is terrible and with zero objectives people would just wander or hide (maps in MW4 were bad and were clearly afterthoughts of the games design team). Plenty of games (most) overcome these issues through well designed scenarios or good map design. PGI has shown a lack of ability in both areas and it's sad.

Edited by Shumabot, 12 April 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Madw0lf, on 12 April 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

I did get lucky, in that I didnt run into any of his friends while I was behind the cover I was using, yes.

No, I chewed him up from under 100m, I came from the lower base up to that hill.

Well that certainly makes more sense. It read the other way though.

[warner2]

Vassago Rain, on 12 April 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

For instance, did you know that AC20 hits about as hard as a gauss rifle out to around 600 meters? The projectile can easily travel 1200 meters.

Really? Is that true?

[Jman5]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

What are you talking about?

Forest colony: Bote spawn shorline areas are great for sniping from
River city: The upper spawn point has a huge advantage and is a glorious firebase
Alpine: Both spawn points have ample cover and good sight lines to their surroundings
Forest Colony: Is the only map you can't spawn camp with PPCs
Tourmaline: Both spawns have 2000+ meter sightlines right outside them with ample cover

You are plainly wrong.

This is wading into pointless theorycraft "I'm right you're wrong" la-la land so I'm just going to leave it at this.

• Tourmaline's bases are horribly exposed. You are trying to tell me that an entire 8 man team can position on their base and not get picked apart by snipers? It doesn't matter if you have line of sight down certain paths. That just means the enemy does too. Only the enemy snipers have the added advantage of not fighting on a wide open plain.

• River city upper spawn. I already said it was an exception, but regardless, it's a small map anyway. Further, it's largely irrelevant because the map's cityscape has great sniper cover for approaching mechs. So someone like Vassago can move forward while staying largely under cover.

• Forest colony spawns are bowls. Sure they can't shoot you, but you can't shoot them until they are right on top of you. The only exception is the left spawn where you get some line of sight on some of the map. But good luck when they go top through cave instead of straight down the middle.

• Have you seen alpine spawns? There is practically nothing there. A few drum barrels and that germanium rig. You would get absolutely mauled by snipers on the ridge if your entire team was back there.

Look the game play speaks for itself. People don't hide at their base because you would lose constantly. If it was an instant win everyone would do it. If you want to continue to insist it's a winning strategy, then congratulations: you now have an unbeatable gameplan. Now go join RHOD and get 1st place.

Edited by Jman5, 12 April 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Shumabot]

Jman5, on 12 April 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

This is wading into pointless theorycraft "I'm right you're wrong" la-la land so I'm just going to leave it at this.

• Tourmaline's bases are horribly exposed. You are trying to tell me that an entire 8 man team can position on their base and not get picked apart by snipers? It doesn't matter if you have line of sight down certain paths. That just means the enemy does too. Only the enemy snipers have the added advantage of not fighting on a wide open plain.

• River city upper spawn. I already said it was an exception, but regardless, it's a small map anyway. Further, it's largely irrelevant because the map's cityscape has great sniper cover for approaching mechs. So someone like Vassago can move forward while staying largely under cover.

• Forest colony spawns are bowls. Sure they can't shoot you, but you can't shoot them until they are right on top of you. The only exception is the left spawn where you get some line of sight on some of the map. But good luck when they go top through cave instead of straight down the middle.

• Have you seen alpine spawns? There is practically nothing there. A few drum barrels and that germanium rig. You would get absolutely mauled by snipers on the ridge if your entire team was back there.

Look the game play speaks for itself. People don't hide at their base because you would lose constantly. If it was an instant win everyone would do it. If you want to continue to insist it's a winning strategy, then congratulations: you now have an unbeatable gameplan. Now go join RHOD and get 1st place.

You don't need to stand on your oil rig, you just need to be able to see it from your sniping point and travel back to it within a reasonable period of time. That is functionally identical to standing on it. Camping denotes finding the most defensible position and setting up camp there.

• Tourmalines bases are hardly exposed, most are in rounded bends and are sheltered. Immediately outside of both of them are walled sniping positions.
  
• River cities upper spawn is not an exception and the maps size is irrelevant. Spawn points are all more than 2000 meters away from eachother.
  
• Forest colony spawns are within 20 seconds of easily defended hills that give lengthy vistas of most of the map.
  
• There's practically nothing in alpines spawns except AN ENTIRE BUILDING COMPLEX WITH 20 BUILDINGS and ANOTHER ONE.

The game play doesn't speak for itself, people don't hide at their base because it's boring. People that base camp win games. People don't do it because it's not a game, it's sleepy nap time when you do it. As for RHOD, no thanks. I've seen plenty of 8 man competitive rounds turn into base camping and I have no interest to join poptart league against old-men-and-steeeringwheels. The simple fact that RHOD forces team comp and gameplay decorum implies that its making up for the fact that the base game requires it to function at a competitive level.

[Jman5]

[Shumabot]

Jman5, on 12 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

A response worthy of RHOD.

[Ryvucz]

[ThinkTank]

That was strangest ten hours of my life.

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