238 replies to this topic

[Lorcan Lladd]

Some guys are just jealous because they can't even last fifteen minutes.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Noob Weapons, on 13 April 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

The rest of your posts were just reflective on what you had already said. There was no part that said you actually care about the desire to win, but rather that you decided to pretend this is a job to grind c-bills all day.

If you prefer, I will edit my post and include your entire posts within them and simply highlight the important parts?

But really, each post was about a couple of points.

A. I don't care about your desire to keep either you K/D or your W/L high.
B. "(You don't) care about anyone else on the playing field. That's a sociopathic view of the world."
C. The only endgame to Mechwarrior Online (in your opinion) is to grind c-bills and xp, and that is all we should care about
D. Something I thought was funny about "Internet Autism" and Greater fukwad theory.

From the perspective of actual, obtainable rewards within the game space, C-bills and XP are the only things that matter in the current version of the game.

Win's and Losses provide you with zero, zip, nadda ingame. There's nothing you can DO with wins/losses.

If I'm measuring performance based on what I can use in game, Then C-bills and XP trump Wins/losses. Thus from a practical standpoint, C-bills and XP are what matter.

The other side of the argument is that Wins/KDR is what matters because it's an overall reflection of the performance you're giving, though in a less tangeable way.

At the end of the day, I can not buy upgrades, mechs, or piloting skills with wins/kdr stats. It's why I consider these stats not worth my time and not a reflection of how I'm doing in game. Yes I did state that I don't care about the other side of things, because, again, The other side is not tangeable, there's nothing I gain from KDR / w/l gameplay. But that's a view on the gameplay and not the emotions of the person behind the screen. So no I'm not sociopathic for my views, I become a sociopath when I don't accept the emotions of the other into the equation.

As for the theory's, there's real psychology that backs them up, go do a bit of research if you're curious.

At the end of the day, there's 2 ways to approach the game as it sits right now, Wins/Losses, or c-bills/xp. Neither's wrong, neither is right, and the two ideals don't mesh well with one another. It's unfortenate, but some people want an end game, and some people want stats.

[Stone Profit]

Jade Kitsune, on 13 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

From the perspective of actual, obtainable rewards within the game space, C-bills and XP are the only things that matter in the current version of the game.

Win's and Losses provide you with zero, zip, nadda ingame. There's nothing you can DO with wins/losses.

If I'm measuring performance based on what I can use in game, Then C-bills and XP trump Wins/losses. Thus from a practical standpoint, C-bills and XP are what matter.

The other side of the argument is that Wins/KDR is what matters because it's an overall reflection of the performance you're giving, though in a less tangeable way.

At the end of the day, I can not buy upgrades, mechs, or piloting skills with wins/kdr stats. It's why I consider these stats not worth my time and not a reflection of how I'm doing in game. Yes I did state that I don't care about the other side of things, because, again, The other side is not tangeable, there's nothing I gain from KDR / w/l gameplay. But that's a view on the gameplay and not the emotions of the person behind the screen. So no I'm not sociopathic for my views, I become a sociopath when I don't accept the emotions of the other into the equation.

As for the theory's, there's real psychology that backs them up, go do a bit of research if you're curious.

At the end of the day, there's 2 ways to approach the game as it sits right now, Wins/Losses, or c-bills/xp. Neither's wrong, neither is right, and the two ideals don't mesh well with one another. It's unfortenate, but some people want an end game, and some people want stats.

Actually, BOTH of those views are wrong.
The only right view is "I play this game to have fun"
If thats not your view, youre doing it wrong.

[Dan Nashe]

Syllogy, on 13 April 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Haven't you heard? The Raven 3L is so epic that it has 600pts of armor on all parts of the mech, carries 14 ERPPCs, 10 Large lasers, and 5 Gauss Rifles with 100 tons of ammo. It has an Standard 1000 Engine, runs at 300kph, and holds 140 double heat sinks.

It cannot be beaten.

You forgot the ultimate sniper weapon: The AC20.
Haven't you heard? The game is broken because of all the snipers with weapons like the AC20.

[Zylo]

Stone Profit, on 13 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Actually, BOTH of those views are wrong.
The only right view is "I play this game to have fun"
If thats not your view, youre doing it wrong.

What if we only have fun winning though?

Is it wrong playing only to win which results in fun?

The reason I ask is because I *HATE* losing. It's not fun at all.

[Stone Profit]

Zylo, on 13 April 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

What if we only have fun winning though?

Is it wrong playing only to win which results in fun?

The reason I ask is because I *HATE* losing. It's not fun at all.

Then you are playing to have fun. Thats fine, whatever reason you have fun makes no difference, its those who only play to grind either cbills or w/l that have it wrong.

[Utilyan]

My Flamer-Hunch back has been known to make people laugh and cry on my team and the enemies. Sometimes some swear I'm their hero other times they hope I shoot myself.

Either way I hope to achieve the most memorable game.


To fight or not to fight?, that is the question.


If no one punks you around and you stood up for yourself in a internet world congrats and you have my full support if your still getting punked around in the real world. you might need to still prove something to yourself, might need the practice.

But if you have stood up for yourself in the real world and in the internet world, I suggest trying out submissive stance, its actually way more entertaining, these are toys, play a wuss. Even competitive wise this creates a good space where you fight clearly focused rather then harping on whatever playground-drama you got going on.

The most fun games you will ever have is getting bossed around and punked like a little wuss. Taking it too serious just gonna stress you out.......you can even end up HATING playing with robots, How can you hate shooting robots!?

I promise you, you will laugh. And if you find a bossy commander type, do what they say even if its some noob who has absolutely no idea about combat or tactics. I guarantee they can give you impossible dumb objectives that are absolutely the most fun you will ever have in a game like this.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Stone Profit, on 13 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Actually, BOTH of those views are wrong.
The only right view is "I play this game to have fun"
If thats not your view, youre doing it wrong.

The only way to have fun is to gain c-bills to upgrade your mechs to fight better, and xp to upgrade your piloting skills so you fight better.

Fun is subjective, and again, there's basically 2 ways to have fun with the game. well 3, but the 3rd includes team killing and ******* people off and being a troll.

[Noob Weapons]

Jade Kitsune, on 13 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

From the perspective of actual, obtainable rewards within the game space, C-bills and XP are the only things that matter in the current version of the game.

Win's and Losses provide you with zero, zip, nadda ingame. There's nothing you can DO with wins/losses.

If I'm measuring performance based on what I can use in game, Then C-bills and XP trump Wins/losses. Thus from a practical standpoint, C-bills and XP are what matter.

The other side of the argument is that Wins/KDR is what matters because it's an overall reflection of the performance you're giving, though in a less tangeable way.

At the end of the day, I can not buy upgrades, mechs, or piloting skills with wins/kdr stats. It's why I consider these stats not worth my time and not a reflection of how I'm doing in game. Yes I did state that I don't care about the other side of things, because, again, The other side is not tangeable, there's nothing I gain from KDR / w/l gameplay. But that's a view on the gameplay and not the emotions of the person behind the screen. So no I'm not sociopathic for my views, I become a sociopath when I don't accept the emotions of the other into the equation.

As for the theory's, there's real psychology that backs them up, go do a bit of research if you're curious.

At the end of the day, there's 2 ways to approach the game as it sits right now, Wins/Losses, or c-bills/xp. Neither's wrong, neither is right, and the two ideals don't mesh well with one another. It's unfortenate, but some people want an end game, and some people want stats.

I edited my previous post at a bad time when I should have just made another.

The thing is, c-bills are just as, or even more intangible than wins.

I worded my post wrongly, as I don't care about my actual ratio of K/D or W/L as much as I care about winning the match that I'm in.

I've grinded c-bills, and thats just what it is, a grind. But the entire reason for grinding them is to buy a mech that you can win with and have fun playing.

Example: I have 2.0 k/d and a 1.7 win/loss on my Illya muromets, but I stopped enjoying playing him because he isn't fun. I have started playing a jenner that I lose more on (1.3 win/loss 1.7 k/d) but I have a lot more fun playing. I cannot imagine it is fun to sit around and move to the next mech and the next just to buy more mech that I don't even try to win on. Even if I don't win as much on my jenner, I have a hell of a lot of fun trying.

However, you seem content to farm the fake money on the game, which is why I made the comment of wouldn't it be better to just get a second job if you would rather turn this game into a job that doesn't earn you anything. (I'll edit in the part of my post I added earlier that was probably missed because I added it in after your reply.)

Noob Weapons, on 13 April 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

But for a serious question, why does one even play if they only care about the fake money? I've never understood this, and it boils down to the people who play farmville for days on end. I enjoy games that provide an intriguing storyline. I also enjoy games that give me a sense of competition that raises my adrenaline in an attempt to survive and win. But I don't understand how someone can enjoy dieing quickly in a match, not caring to win, grinding fake money, and then doing the same with everything they buy with it.

At that point, I think I would get more fulfillment from spending that time at work, because then my grind gives me real money that I can use to get a better house, or stop eating tv dinners and food from the dollar menu (holy crap I cannot wait to be done with college).

(edited because I copied my stats backwards)

Edited by Noob Weapons, 13 April 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[darkfall13]

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

It's a PVP game, and there's nothing to gain for padding or delaying, except that you make people on your team mad. So you're really, really, really just doing it to pad and delay.

Because there's absolutely no reward in delaying it. At all. If you're like my old ER large commandos, delaying is because you're doing damage. This is amusing to watch. A pub raven running from 7 guys, actively avoiding anything resembling fighting? That's pathetic.

Just go die already.

So what you're saying is it's OK for you to do it but not the OP?

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

You're using big words to attempt to add depth to giant robots ridgehumping. Even if this was a game like that, we'd have to accept that once people are dead, it's like watching wrestling.

Or in terms the TT boys understand, Solaris. I don't want to watch Hulk Hogan delay for 9 minutes, only to tap out. Give me someone who at least pretends he knows how to fight. The 'tactics' and 'strategy' might be more impressive in Hogan compensating for his bad everything, but the technical aspects and action in an RVD match are more fun to watch.

And just like TV you can change the channel... but that mech that I willingly committed to the match has to be out right this second!

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

No, not really. They go power down in a corner, or make you chase them all over.

I've only rarely seen anyone win doing this, and I've been here since the game first opened. It's purely a spitting move.



Actually, I have two DDCs set up in my queue, and my founder atlas. Still doesn't make it okay that people lock them in 15 minute games for no reason.

But I thought a reason was:

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

delaying is because you're doing damage.

Oh but only if you're the one doing it...

And no need to waste your time to respond to me, I really don't need to hear about Hulk Hogan again...

[Phoenix Gray]

MadPanda, on 13 April 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

People don't make funny threads, they make mad threads. You are mad. Admit it.

Two Liaio Death Commandos walk into a bar. Boom.

[CrashieJ]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 April 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

It's ppl who have never heard of sun tsu

and The Art of War?
80% of Sun Tzu's teachings are nullified in this game... people can't fight harder in a no-win situation because the game won't let them, tactics that would work in reality fall flat on it's balls. Flanking and using fast units becomes a good way to auto-lose, and. We are limited... by the same people promoting freedom

I'm going to go through every chapter of AoW and then tell you what I've seen in MWO


Chapter 1- Laying plans [ideas PGI has not Implemented]
Chapter 2 - Waging War [Blobbing assaults win]
Chapter 3 - Attack by Strategems [How to Boat]
Chapter 4 - Tactical dispositions [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 5 - Energy [Stacking PPCs for Dummies]
Chapter 6 - Weak points and Strong [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 7 -Maneuvering [Blobbing assaults win]
chapter 8 - Variation of Tactics [Blobbing Assaults win]
chapter 9- the Army on the March [Blobbing Assaults win
Chapter 10 - Terrain [Blobbing Assaults win/Lower ground has the advantage]
Chapter 11 - the Nine situations [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 12 - attack by Fire [How Flamers are useless]
Chapter 13 - The use of spies [Ideas PGI has not implemented]

you see the pattern here? Yeah, Sun Tzu would be rolling in his grave because of patterns.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Noob Weapons, on 13 April 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

I edited my previous post at a bad time when I should have just made another.

The thing is, c-bills are just as, or even more intangible than wins.

I worded my post wrongly, as I don't care about my actual ratio of K/D or W/L as much as I care about winning the match that I'm in.

I've grinded c-bills, and thats just what it is, a grind. But the entire reason for grinding them is to buy a mech that you can win with and have fun playing.

Example: I have 2.0 k/d and a 1.7 win/loss on my Illya muromets, but I stopped enjoying playing him because he isn't fun. I have started playing a jenner that I lose more on (1.3 win/loss 1.7 k/d) but I have a lot more fun playing. I cannot imagine it is fun to sit around and move to the next mech and the next just to buy more mech that I don't even try to win on. Even if I don't win as much on my jenner, I have a hell of a lot of fun trying.

However, you seem content to farm the fake money on the game, which is why I made the comment of wouldn't it be better to just get a second job if you would rather turn this game into a job that doesn't earn you anything. (I'll edit in the part of my post I added earlier that was probably missed because I added it in after your reply.)




(edited because I copied my stats backwards)

At this point, I play and care about the money because I'm waiting for PGI to unfuck the game.

It's literally that simple, I'm waiting for PGI to deliver on what was promised, I have a deep love for Battletech and Mechwarrior. To the point I've worked to get Mechwarrior 2, 3, and 4 running in windows 7 64 bit, I went out of my way to figure out how to get the 3dfx glide version of Mech 2 to work... I play the tabletop and megamek and Living Legends...

I used to eat, sleep and breathe mechwarrior Noob. This property has ties to my family. My father was one of the championship holders from the VWE battletech pods in San Diego. He held one of the highest ranks as a pilot there. I was exposed to Mechwarrior when I was a kid, and it's stuck with me now that I'm 28...

I paint the mini's I've watched the cartoon, and I've played literally every iteration of battletech save for Crecent Hawks inception and Revenge. And I have a deep love for the battletech lore.

There's a reason I choose to drop 120 dollars on this game. There's a reason I have that little golden shield under my name, because PGI sold me a vision and I bought into it.

My playtime however, has been reduced from 40+ hours a week, to 8ish hours a week, because of the calls PGI has made, the changes of what was "their position at the time." The broken pillars and promises of a game that wouldn't degrade into Mechwarrior 4 style poptarting as the main meta.

I've been involved with MWO since the 2nd wave of closed beta invites... nearly a year now. And I remember every time PGI's pulled the "we're making this change, deal with it" card, despite the rallycries against it.

I really didn't want a rehash of MW4...

[Vassago Rain]

darkfall13, on 13 April 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

So what you're saying is it's OK for you to do it but not the OP?



And just like TV you can change the channel... but that mech that I willingly committed to the match has to be out right this second!



But I thought a reason was:


Oh but only if you're the one doing it...

And no need to waste your time to respond to me, I really don't need to hear about Hulk Hogan again...

I could just go back to legging the people I know are useless and will waste my time.

gavilatius, on 13 April 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

and The Art of War?
80% of Sun Tzu's teachings are nullified in this game... people can't fight harder in a no-win situation because the game won't let them, tactics that would work in reality fall flat on it's balls. Flanking and using fast units becomes a good way to auto-lose, and. We are limited... by the same people promoting freedom

I'm going to go through every chapter of AoW and then tell you what I've seen in MWO


Chapter 1- Laying plans [ideas PGI has not Implemented]
Chapter 2 - Waging War [Blobbing assaults win]
Chapter 3 - Attack by Strategems [How to Boat]
Chapter 4 - Tactical dispositions [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 5 - Energy [Stacking PPCs for Dummies]
Chapter 6 - Weak points and Strong [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 7 -Maneuvering [Blobbing assaults win]
chapter 8 - Variation of Tactics [Blobbing Assaults win]
chapter 9- the Army on the March [Blobbing Assaults win
Chapter 10 - Terrain [Blobbing Assaults win/Lower ground has the advantage]
Chapter 11 - the Nine situations [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 12 - attack by Fire [How Flamers are useless]
Chapter 13 - The use of spies [Ideas PGI has not implemented]

you see the pattern here? Yeah, Sun Tzu would be rolling in his grave because of patterns.

I like the part where high ground and actual arms are a disadvantage.

[Noob Weapons]

gavilatius, on 13 April 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

and The Art of War?
80% of Sun Tzu's teachings are nullified in this game... people can't fight harder in a no-win situation because the game won't let them, tactics that would work in reality fall flat on it's balls. Flanking and using fast units becomes a good way to auto-lose, and. We are limited... by the same people promoting freedom

I'm going to go through every chapter of AoW and then tell you what I've seen in MWO


Chapter 1- Laying plans [ideas PGI has not Implemented]
Chapter 2 - Waging War [Blobbing assaults win]
Chapter 3 - Attack by Strategems [How to Boat]
Chapter 4 - Tactical dispositions [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 5 - Energy [Stacking PPCs for Dummies]
Chapter 6 - Weak points and Strong [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 7 -Maneuvering [Blobbing assaults win]
chapter 8 - Variation of Tactics [Blobbing Assaults win]
chapter 9- the Army on the March [Blobbing Assaults win
Chapter 10 - Terrain [Blobbing Assaults win/Lower ground has the advantage]
Chapter 11 - the Nine situations [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 12 - attack by Fire [How Flamers are useless]
Chapter 13 - The use of spies [Ideas PGI has not implemented]

you see the pattern here? Yeah, Sun Tzu would be rolling in his grave because of patterns.

Blobbing assaults? Sir, you have not seen what 6 light mech in a group can do.

If it were a match between a 5 atlas 3 random team and a 5 raven 3 random team, my money would be on the ravens.

[Vassago Rain]

Noob Weapons, on 13 April 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Blobbing assaults? Sir, you have not seen what 6 light mech in a group can do.

If it were a match between a 5 atlas 3 random team and a 5 raven 3 random team, my money would be on the ravens.

Lights? Really? With state rewind on lasers, I can take the legs off a raven with my DDC's arm mediums. No joke.

It's that easy.

[Loler skates]

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Lights? Really? With state rewind on lasers, I can take the legs off a raven with my DDC's arm mediums. No joke.

It's that easy.

some people can't aim at all, this is why they think light mechs are dangerous even with state rewind. It is only going to get even easier to murder lights when there is state rewind for missiles and ballistics.

[Royalewithcheese]

gavilatius, on 13 April 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Chapter 1- Laying plans [ideas PGI has not Implemented]
Chapter 2 - Waging War [Blobbing assaults win]
Chapter 3 - Attack by Strategems [How to Boat]
Chapter 4 - Tactical dispositions [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 5 - Energy [Stacking PPCs for Dummies]
Chapter 6 - Weak points and Strong [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 7 -Maneuvering [Blobbing assaults win]
chapter 8 - Variation of Tactics [Blobbing Assaults win]
chapter 9- the Army on the March [Blobbing Assaults win
Chapter 10 - Terrain [Blobbing Assaults win/Lower ground has the advantage]
Chapter 11 - the Nine situations [Blobbing Assaults win]
Chapter 12 - attack by Fire [How Flamers are useless]
Chapter 13 - The use of spies [Ideas PGI has not implemented]

you see the pattern here? Yeah, Sun Tzu would be rolling in his grave because of patterns.

I've got this image of archers QQing on the Threekingoms Online forums because the repeating crossbow is OP and takes no skill to use effectively. Or of diehard chariot drivers insisting that chariots are actually viable against cavalry and backing this up by posting a scoreboard from one battle where they did acceptably in a chariot.

[Noobzorz]

RG Notch, on 13 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Fixed it for this case. This is all I wish, people would be honest. They aren't winning in these cases just hoping the enemy goes to cap instead of kill them. Some how them preserving a pointless stat trumps people wanting to have their mech unlocked.
But keep trying to spin it about "winnning" or what not because of course no one is going to back stat whoring.

"WAAAH. WAAAH. I DIED SO NOW YOU HAVE TO DIE TOO."

Sorry to burst your bubble pal. It really is about winning. I have dragged a number of inept and buffoonish teammates kicking and screaming to victory after they horrifically shanked the brawl, and I have been dragged to a victory after dying like a moron myself, generally by an enterprising light who used the clock effectively and got to capping. Play another mech if you really can't handle the two minute wait.

Edited by Noobzorz, 13 April 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Noob Weapons]

Jade Kitsune, on 13 April 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

At this point, I play and care about the money because I'm waiting for PGI to unfuck the game.

It's literally that simple, I'm waiting for PGI to deliver on what was promised, I have a deep love for Battletech and Mechwarrior. To the point I've worked to get Mechwarrior 2, 3, and 4 running in windows 7 64 bit, I went out of my way to figure out how to get the 3dfx glide version of Mech 2 to work... I play the tabletop and megamek and Living Legends...

I used to eat, sleep and breathe mechwarrior Noob. This property has ties to my family. My father was one of the championship holders from the VWE battletech pods in San Diego. He held one of the highest ranks as a pilot there. I was exposed to Mechwarrior when I was a kid, and it's stuck with me now that I'm 28...

I paint the mini's I've watched the cartoon, and I've played literally every iteration of battletech save for Crecent Hawks inception and Revenge. And I have a deep love for the battletech lore.

There's a reason I choose to drop 120 dollars on this game. There's a reason I have that little golden shield under my name, because PGI sold me a vision and I bought into it.

My playtime however, has been reduced from 40+ hours a week, to 8ish hours a week, because of the calls PGI has made, the changes of what was "their position at the time." The broken pillars and promises of a game that wouldn't degrade into Mechwarrior 4 style poptarting as the main meta.

I've been involved with MWO since the 2nd wave of closed beta invites... nearly a year now. And I remember every time PGI's pulled the "we're making this change, deal with it" card, despite the rallycries against it.

I really didn't want a rehash of MW4...

Okay. I can respect that.

I personally love the game as it is, but I have seen many of the ppc threads and I can respect their concerns for the game and the rising number of poptart builds.

The thing I worry about, is people turning mechwarrior into an example of abusive video game mechanics (http://edmundmcmille...rospective.html is a good blog on it, as edmund created a game as a joke to exemplify what the term means.)

If your intent is however to grind c-bills so that when the game becomes what you want it to be, you will then be capable of buying whatever mech you desire, and THEN pursuing the fun in the game and attempting to lead your team to victory, then that is more respectable.

I just ask that you don't bring your team down by doing things like suicide farming, or afk at base while you go eat, because that will only push players away from the game, which will in turn make it harder for PGI to make something out of MWO.