156 replies to this topic

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Well maybe if people quit complaining about things that are not broken we wouldn't be down to the final weapons to nerf.

Oh and you can blame a lot of CB players for the sad state of MGs and flamers they were good at one time.

[Soy]

I dunno what you guys are on about, I shoot fireballs from my mech's *** and cast megic wizert spells.

[Pygar]

Well, I hate to step in and be "How it worked in table top" guy...but current weapons balance is pretty close to how it works in tabletop. Missiles have always been kinda inconsistent when it comes to sheer kill power (but they do still get the job done), and boats with multiple PPCs, ACs or Guass rifles tend to kill or cripple mechs pretty fast if they get good hits. (henceforth, the new sniper meta after the advent of the JagerMech is totally no surprise to me)

I think the real problem is that for the longest time missiles were overpowered in MWO. PGI should actually leave missiles alone at this point and take a new look into watering down ECM.

Edited by Pygar, 13 April 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Juree Riggd]

LRMs are easy to avoid unless you have a mech keeping TAG on the target you're shooting at. Then they're almost like SSRMs in that they will almost certainly hit, unless you go around a corner or get under cover. I love painting a target then watch a mass of missiles rain down on them from the sky.

[IceSerpent]

Thontor, on 13 April 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

SRMs are still amazng for their tonnage. Like i said earlier, if i can pull off over 1,000 damage in a match with my CN9-A which has two medium lasers and 3 artemis SRM6s, SRMs are still pleny deadly.

I agree LRMs are easy to avoid, but i disagree that they are extremely bad. As you can see in the screenshot of my stats, I have a 40% hit percentage with LRMs, and did significantly more damage with them in fewer games than I have done with the ERPPC. With which i have a 50% hit percentage, which while not spectacular, is pretty much average from what I've seen.

You are making a mistake of equating damage done with weapon effectiveness. The only important metric is TTK (time-to-kill) - if I can take you out faster than you can take me out, I win the engagement. It scales the same way from 1v1 to team vs. team.

Quote

The nice thing about LRMs not doing insane amounts of damage is that some people feel like they dont need to try and avoid them. And usually they regret it. I just had a match a couple minutes ago on Alpine where a fresh dual AC/20 Jagermech thought he could just charge at me from 800m away. He made it about 150m before he died to my dual LRM15s. Nobody else was shooting him.

What if that Jager pilot was not too busy licking their cockpit windows and decided to flank you instead of charging across the open? What if they actually could hit a broad side of a barn while standing inside of it and opened fire from about 500m-600m out?

[Gremlich Johns]

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Well, yes. They took SRMs away, so there's no way to brawl, and if you try, you can't knock anyone out, anyway.

I submit that this is not true in every case - I really enjoy running my Hunchie 4SP into close quarters engagements: 5xMLas and 2xSRM6+Artemis.

But, I am doing that as either a wing or in a group.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 13 April 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[Karl Split]

Current meta is gauss/ppc sniping. This will change back to brawling or something else in time it tends to go in waves.

Join the herd or make mechs to exploit the likely loadouts of your enemies till the meta changes. Tried jump sniping yesterday and had my legs blown off every match in seconds so I think people are adapting already

All LL team with many jumpy trebuchet brawlers is a good counter by the look of it.

[MustrumRidcully]

I suspect Vassago Rain is not wrong - the SRM and LRM hotfix changed the battlefield. It used to be that many Brawlers relied on SRMs to deal hefty damage at close range, and LRMs managed to keep down the heads of many snipers.
The SRM advantage meant that wading throug enemy long-range fire was still worth it -sure, you ate some nasty hits, but then you were close and the snipers were hopeless. Missile Warnings encouraged the Snipers to play more defensively and not always pop out, so that Brawlers didn't take quite as much fire as they do now.

The solution to me seems not to nerf PPCs and LLs and whatnot, but find the right values for LRMs and SRMs so that we get healthy mix of sniping and brawling again. (And I am not saying the previous state was perfect or even good.)

ANd of course, we also get the Highlander as the first assault with jump jets, the ideal poptart in the assault range.

[Hobietime]

Just wait till HSR for ballistics comes in on the 16th.

Then I can pretend all those light mechs are balls and my 4 PPC stalker is a hungry hungry hippo.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

well when they nerfed LRMs into oblivion via my sig, what did you expect?

Karl Split, on 13 April 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Current meta is gauss/ppc sniping. This will change back to brawling or something else in time it tends to go in waves.

Join the herd or make mechs to exploit the likely loadouts of your enemies till the meta changes. Tried jump sniping yesterday and had my legs blown off every match in seconds so I think people are adapting already

All LL team with many jumpy trebuchet brawlers is a good counter by the look of it.

yeah because instead of coping with it in game, ppl wil come here and QQ and get the devs to break the game further IE my sig

[MadPanda]

Flavor of the week: Cataprach 3D with 2 ER PPC's and Gauss rifle. Seems like every kid and their mother is running these.

[Turist0AT]

Sloddor, on 13 April 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Anyone else noticed everybody plays Dual gauss, AC or ppc builds? Matches are kinda unbalanced right now. You get Long ranged bashed in every Match. Pug or 8 Man.

I think it has to do with introduction of long range maps and the recent changes to missiles.

Edited by Turist0AT, 13 April 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Cferre]

Gremlich Johns, on 13 April 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I have only experienced drops where all weapons types are used - energy, ballistics and missiles

And yet the people that still use missiles are apparently in denial or are desperate enough to fill up their
remaining missile weapon slots.

[Wintersdark]

Lasers are still fine.

The problem isn't ppc's, gauss and autocannons (actually, most autocannons are marginally under powered really), the problem is that missiles where slightly over nerfed. LRM's are worthless now - I just packed up 4xLRM15's on Tourmaline, a weapons load out that should approximately match 3 PPC's. Not 4,as LRM's are longer ranges, lower heat, and have indirect fire. Weight and size increase exponentially with range.

Anyways, even only taking shots that would hit - not firing into ecm, or cover, or inside 180m, or at really fast mech's... I burnt 720 missiles and did 214 damage.

I don't expect them to be what they were (even before the crazy patch and splash bug) but they are quite simply bad now.

This applies to SRM's too, though to a more limited degree.

[Vrekgar]

Sloddor, on 13 April 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Anyone else noticed everybody plays Dual gauss, AC or ppc builds? Matches are kinda unbalanced right now. You get Long ranged bashed in every Match. Pug or 8 Man.

They spun the wheel of fail and now they face the deal. Without LRM's to use as suppressive fire you have too many PPC and large AC mechs just running everywhere.

Guess we have to wait till May to see if they will fix them. Till then,

[jeffsw6]

Otto Cannon, on 13 April 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

The last few days I've seen LRMs used in two matches. The users died quickly both times.

Every single match has featured snipers though, sometimes a whole team of them.

I was recently in an Alpine assault match where almost everyone on my team seemed to have a few LRMs. Almost everyone on the opposing team was a sniper. They died one-by-one, and a couple of them absolutely lost it: trash-talking our LRM boats and cursing at everyone like we had somehow cheated them.

Watching them QQ was even more fun than killing them. I don't see how a team that is almost entirely snipers thinks they have a monopoly on ... winning ...

[Malora Sidewinder]

Yokaiko, on 13 April 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

You missed eleventy billion large lasers, and the ever the filler medium laser in your QQ post.

1/10 for being late to the party.


....and other than all of the missiles being compete crap, no kidding long range is taking over, you can't run in chest bump and blow a side torso off, well everthing.

This is about the best I've seen weapon balance .....ever.

Yeah must have missed Guass, Slas and LRM warrior...otherwise known as before double heatsinks.

Even though missiles aren't as strong as they should be, i find running at least 2 SRM6 incredibly useful.

I run a hybrid brawler. 3 large laser, gauss, 2 srm6 atlas with a 350 engine. thing is FAST.

[Taemien]

People are finally figuring out that the Grand Melee Brawl that used to happen all the time was throwing the matches to chance. Now they are able to actually engage with aim.

Or at least thats their idea lol. For some reason I'm still able to engage targets within 270m with no issues and when they load up on boating configs, I tear them a new one. For me, short, long, sniping, or brawling... I can take them on. Boating has always been the way for the lower tier players to have 'some' sort of competitive edge. Unfortunately it opens them up to a slew of weaknesses. Weaknesses that a vet can and will exploit.

Its also nice that we have build restrictions that do favor the mixed loadouts.

[RainbowToh]

Increase LRM flight speed. Perhaps that will increase hit % thus effectiveness.

[Marcus Cvellus]

You are getting killed more often by boats with those weapons.

It is easy mode for now, due to devs forgetting to adjust recycling to adjust closer to 10 second turn/damage that was in TT. Now you are dishing out 5-6x more damage per ppc/erppc/ac than you would on TT, so naturally why would anyone miss out on that.

There is a lot of other builds, also, but boating aforementioned weapons is most lucrative and efficien atm, so you get killed more by them.