64 replies to this topic

[Willie Sauerland]

Thoummim, on 14 April 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

We need to have a real penalty for overheating right now you just shutdown for 2~5s and re-alpha like nothing happened I see too many ppc stalker doing that, when overriding just for a few sec can result in death. Overheating should do internal damage no matter if the mech is power down or up.

Honestly,

of all the bugs

this game still has,

this is the least

of my concerns...

[Vassago Rain]

Thoummim, on 14 April 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

We need to have a real penalty for overheating right now you just shutdown for 2~5s and re-alpha like nothing happened I see too many ppc stalker doing that, when overriding just for a few sec can result in death. Overheating should do internal damage no matter if the mech is power down or up.

5 seconds of sleep is enough to get headshot.

[Jonathan Paine]

In short: PPCs were buffed several times before gaining popularity.

[Zyllos]

Syllogy, on 14 April 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

Yeah, but pinpoint accuracy and convergence are directly related to how much damage a mech can do. Instead of having a Swayback do 5 points of damage with 9 Medium Lasers to 9 random points on a mech, all 9 Medium Lasers are now able to hit the same spot, which means significantly higher damage to that component.

Pin-Point accuracy only effects how much damage can be done to a single location on a mech, not how much overall damage can be done on a mech.

[Willie Sauerland]

Vassago Rain, on 14 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

5 seconds of sleep is enough to get headshot.

True.

Lack of heat discipline

is enough to get you killed.

[NRP]

Yeah, 5 seconds of shut down is enough to get killed, or at least so severely damaged that a mouse fart will kill you.

I still think that people who complain loudest about "boating" have never actually tried boating themselves. Rather, they get killed by a boat, think that boats one shot everyone at will, and go on forums raging "Nerf! Nerf! Nerf!"

[Moro Ibex]

PPCs did suck. It was way back in closed beta before a lot of things happened. 6x PPC builds didn't happen until the Stalkers came out, and even then it wasn't until the heat reduction that you started to see more and more of them.

What made PPCs suck was a combination of very high heat (i think it was up near 13?) and very very slow speed of the PPC itself. When I say slow speed I mean looking at someone 700 meters away and they shoot a PPC at you, then you just step out of its way. They were by far the slowest ballistic type weapon in the game. Added to this combination was the fact that you only had three of four mechs that could use more then one PPC well (Mainly the Cats), and a single mech that could use 4x PPCs (Atlas RS).

So what has happened? PPCs got faster (much faster), PPCs got better on heat (stocks are now 7, ERs 9), more mechs can hold more of them (Awesomes, Stalkers, Atlas, Jagers, Catas, the rest), PPCs got a limited but handy ECM counter, and to top it all off they still do 10 damage.

All these reasons are why people are hating PPCs right now and will keep hating them until this game shuts down, hopefully years from now. PPCs are the top end of the energy weapons. Why would we not boat them? I mean really? Why not?

[Bloody Moon]

Moro Ibex, on 14 April 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

PPCs got better on heat (stocks are now 7, ERs 9)

Normal PPCs have 8, ER has 11. It was 10/13.

[Varnas]

Bloody Moon, on 14 April 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Normal PPCs have 8, ER has 11. It was 10/13.

They should go back to original values.

[ShadowbaneX]

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

The flaw in this argument, as is the flaw with most boating complaints is that, people don't take into account that way back in the day, armor was doubled.

Would you have a problem with a 3 PPC stalker, a 2 PPC K2(stock variant), a single AC20 anything? If armor wasn't doubled, these would be doing the EXACT same thing. So a 6 PPC stalker, Boomcat or a 4 PPC K2 (the logical progression) are just an adjustment to the armor change.

Cause & Effect.

I'm not sure your logical progression makes much sense because you don't have the tonnage to actually cool a K2 with Quad PPCs. I use my K2 with Quad MLs, a pair uAC/5s and 12 DHS. My PPC CAT is my C1, with a pair of MLs, a pair of Streaks and about 18 DHSs. Both of them do pretty well. I can fire pretty constantly even on hot maps with that set-up and still have the Streaks and the MLs for close in work. Quad PPC K2 just sounds way too hot. I suppose if you put an XL 285 in there you could mount 7 DHSs.

Speaking of my K2, I can attest to the fact that a Hex-PPC Stalker can and will core a K2 from behind, even if you keep half a ton of armour (16) covering your rear. It was a good day.

A friend of mine, in an Atlas, had drawn the attention of another Atlas. As they were brawling, I got in behind the enemy and managed to core him from behind and didn't even take a scratch in the process. A rarity to be sure. We then moved over the ridge on Frozen City looking for more.

I was about to ask my friend if he wanted me to take the lead since I was in pristine condition when I fall over face first. A certain post on these boards, who likes the Hex-PPC build, did just that the other day...it was a great shot, right in the CT, through the armour and Cored out the engine...it's just a shame he was on my team when he did it.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 14 April 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

Varnas, on 14 April 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

They should go back to original values.

Maybe but then the missile values should be at 2/1 SRM/LRM without splash, laser values should be changed back to the original aswell etc etc which brings us back to fast Medium Laser boats.

I don't think that is any better.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 14 April 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Thoummim]

Vassago Rain, on 14 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

5 seconds of sleep is enough to get headshot.

Headshot a stalker who fired at 800m when I'm in a medium ? Yeah right... Oh yeah I know the solution I'll start boating ppc myself

People may disagree but I really think the lack of punishment when overheating is the problem. You do not need to be heat efficient with the current model.

Edited by Thoummim, 14 April 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Moro Ibex, on 14 April 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

PPCs did suck. It was way back in closed beta before a lot of things happened. 6x PPC builds didn't happen until the Stalkers came out, and even then it wasn't until the heat reduction that you started to see more and more of them.

What made PPCs suck was a combination of very high heat (i think it was up near 13?) and very very slow speed of the PPC itself. When I say slow speed I mean looking at someone 700 meters away and they shoot a PPC at you, then you just step out of its way. They were by far the slowest ballistic type weapon in the game. Added to this combination was the fact that you only had three of four mechs that could use more then one PPC well (Mainly the Cats), and a single mech that could use 4x PPCs (Atlas RS).

So what has happened? PPCs got faster (much faster), PPCs got better on heat (stocks are now 7, ERs 9), more mechs can hold more of them (Awesomes, Stalkers, Atlas, Jagers, Catas, the rest), PPCs got a limited but handy ECM counter, and to top it all off they still do 10 damage.

All these reasons are why people are hating PPCs right now and will keep hating them until this game shuts down, hopefully years from now. PPCs are the top end of the energy weapons. Why would we not boat them? I mean really? Why not?

I don't hate the PPC. It's a good weapon, and in a good place.. I simply want my brawling SRMs back, or them to give PPC treatment to guns like the LBX.

[Ragashar]

The PPC is now about right... The boating and overheating on alpha is the problem... It should somehow exponentially increase the shut down time needed to get back into action. So if you go alpha straight out of heat shutdown. Maybe there could be some sort of an extra time after shut down if you over again that would slowly dissipate over time. Like maybe an extra 5 seconds that would tick off a second shorter every 5 seconds after coming back on.

So it would take 25 seconds to get rid of the penalty.

[Varnas]

Thoummim, on 14 April 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Headshot a stalker who fired at 800m when I'm in a medium ? Yeah right... Oh yeah I know the solution I'll start boating ppc myself

People may disagree but I really think the lack of punishment when overheating is the problem. You do not need to be heat efficient with the current model.

We need pilots dying of heat strokes after shooting that 6xPPC alpha strike.
Just sayin'

[ShadowbaneX]

Ragashar, on 14 April 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

The PPC is now about right... The boating and overheating on alpha is the problem... It should somehow exponentially increase the shut down time needed to get back into action. So if you go alpha straight out of heat shutdown. Maybe there could be some sort of an extra time after shut down if you over again that would slowly dissipate over time. Like maybe an extra 5 seconds that would tick off a second shorter every 5 seconds after coming back on.

So it would take 25 seconds to get rid of the penalty.

How about it just flat out kills you? Firing 6 PPCs when you're already sitting at 80+% heat should be suicide.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 14 April 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

ShadowbaneX, on 14 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

I'm not sure your logical progression makes much sense because you don't have the tonnage to actually cool a K2 with Quad PPCs. I use my K2 with Quad MLs, a pair uAC/5s and 12 DHS. My PPC CAT is my C1, with a pair of MLs, a pair of Streaks and about 18 DHSs. Both of them do pretty well. I can fire pretty constantly even on hot maps with that set-up and still have the Streaks and the MLs for close in work. Quad PPC K2 just sounds way too hot. I suppose if you put an XL 285 in there you could mount 7 DHSs.

Does the words

"CHAIN FIRE"

mean anything to you?

ShadowbaneX, on 14 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Speaking of my K2, I can attest to the fact that a Hex-PPC Stalker can and will core a K2 from behind, even if you keep half a ton of armour (16) covering your rear. It was a good day.

I don't need 6 PPCs

to kill your K2

from behind...

[Loler skates]

Varnas, on 14 April 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

People stopped saying PPCs suck, when half the community started building 6xPPC stalkers and pretty much instantly killing everything.

I personally never saw PPCs as weak. Used them often in closed beta. Nowadays i like using other weapons, not because i stopped liking PPCs, but because i like to mix things up sometimes.

I think your time line forgets that they had their heat output dropped...

but what ever floats the obviously biased picture of the community you want to float.

NRP, on 14 April 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Yeah, 5 seconds of shut down is enough to get killed, or at least so severely damaged that a mouse fart will kill you.

I still think that people who complain loudest about "boating" have never actually tried boating themselves. Rather, they get killed by a boat, think that boats one shot everyone at will, and go on forums raging "Nerf! Nerf! Nerf!"

I sure do love attacking straw men, it's great because they never fight back!

[LordBraxton]

PPCs were good but not boatable, now PPCs are OP and required on most heavy-assault builds if you want to be competetive

[Lefty Lucy]

Teralitha, on 14 April 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

I personally dont see any difference from then to now except you can shoot more often, which has nothing to do with the weapon itself.

PPC heat reduced... you can fire more often... has nothing to do with the weapon? What? Really? Do you even read what you type before you hit submit?