127 replies to this topic

[Buckminster]

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(5) can anyone suggest a particular engine? the options are a bit overwhelming

(6) I keep hearing "go Endo Steel" - are you referring to the ARMOR or the STRUCTURE?

I use the 300XL in my Catapults. I like even numbers of 25 because of the internal heat sink space. Your engine can hold the number of heatsinks divided by 25. And I found that the speed increase from increasing my engine from a 300 to 305 (or 315, my max) isn't worth the weight - there's a jump in weight there related to the gyro.

Endo Steel refers to structure, Ferro Fibrous refer to armor. Endo Steel is *ALWAYS* the better bet.

[Luther Varone]

What I'm working with at the moment, though keep in mind I am seeking both a 300 XL engine and Endo Steel structure, the latter is my priority but I need another 100,000 CB first.



and this is my current armor placement, which is putting me in for a little longer-lasting battles if I'm smart about advancement. still working on the whole torso-twisting bit

[Captain Pee Sheets]

You need WAAAAAY more armor dude. The Cataphracts are easy to core any way, and if your armor is that low I'm surprised it even takes 3-5 shots and not 2.

[BoPop]

kinda spongy legs but maybe you can make it work. why do you want the 300xl? do you need to go faster and be lighter? because 64.8 isnt bad for a big mech like that with lots of fire power ya know. especially if you have speed tweak puts ya at 71? that's not shabby. all i'm sayin is you should load up some energy weapons and work with that engine there. save yer dough for some weapons if you need to? just some thoughts, i'm no authority. oh yea beef up that left arm hehe i think you should pump your leg armor until your weight is 65 then buy some LAAAZOOORZZ

Edited by BoPop, 18 April 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[Captain Pee Sheets]

Try this build out:

[Luther Varone]

Taktix, on 18 April 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

You need WAAAAAY more armor dude. The Cataphracts are easy to core any way, and if your armor is that low I'm surprised it even takes 3-5 shots and not 2.

do you have any suggestions are particular armor placement?

BoPop, on 18 April 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

kinda spongy legs but maybe you can make it work. why do you want the 300xl? do you need to go faster and be lighter? because 64.8 isnt bad for a big mech like that with lots of fire power ya know. especially if you have speed tweak puts ya at 71? that's not shabby. all i'm sayin is you should load up some energy weapons and work with that engine there. save yer dough for some weapons if you need to? just some thoughts, i'm no authority. oh yea beef up that left arm hehe i think you should pump your leg armor until your weight is 65 then buy some LAAAZOOORZZ

I'm definitely keeping the ER PPC, but supposing I keep the Medium Lasers, I'd like to have one ballistic weapon. I keep getting demolished by Gauss Rifles and they do make me drool but I know they're also very expensive and weighty

I'll stick with this engine for starters, thanks for the advice. I just needed a second opinion on the engine matter, really.

[Splinters]

I think your best bet is to go to Smurfy's website and get use to the tool to work on optimizations and weaponslab to see how much heat and cooling your getting from your build. It really helps work on layouts and heat/cooling combinations without spending Cbills to do anything.

If you insist the ER PPC and the AC/20 stays, then here is my build for you. I dropped the ER LL for more heat efficient ML's for short range. If you want to go long range, then swap the AC/20 for gauss, and swap the other ER LL for another ER PPC and just go for broke as a sniper build. If you want to brawl, keep the ML's w/ the AC/20 combo.

Knowing your heat to damage is important. Your AC/20 will do 20 damage with 6 heat. 4 ML's will do 20 damage with 16 heat and your ER PPC will do 10 damage with 11 heat. ER PPCs for long range targets and switch to AC/20 and ML's for short range <270m fights. Maximizing your damage would be with an AC/20 round and chain fire ML's, you'll take 15-30 seconds to overheat of constant fire, but just back off the ML's and focus with the AC/20 only if your at the top of the heat scale.

You'll find that boating the same weapons systems or compatible weapons systems (Gauss + ER PPCs) makes it a lot easier to aim overall.

Gauss does consistent 15 points at long ranges, but your AC20 can also go out to 500m with 15 points of damage. It's not the same, but worth thinking about if your not too worried about ammo.

-S

[Joker Two]

What you've essentially done is focused on firepower at the exclusion of all else. If you're not familiar with Battletech mechanics, this is an easy trap to fall into, as the customization system is not clearly explained in MWO. Most 'Mechs have between 70-90% of their possible armor value. Your design packs an incredible punch, but pays in armor protection and cooling capacity. My personal recommendation is to remove the ER Large Laser and replace it with additional armor. You should shoot for at least 85% armor protection (focus on the torso), and a heat efficiency of at least 1.2, probably higher.

[Deathlike]

Still writing this...:
http://mwomercs.com/...survive-in-mwo/

Anyways, a simple suggestion is that you MAX out your armor (95+% minimum) and shaving a few points off would be OK (probably take some points off the head, arms, or legs). However, durability is very dependent on how you are able to spread your damage around (torso twisting), especially on an XL engine.

[Tyren Dian]

Endo Steel Internal Structure, drop the FF Armor for it, cuz it takes the same amount of space in ur mech, but frees up less tonnage. Double Heat Sinks are a "must-have" in ur build. Well, no recommend for the engine, its the last thing i fit in. i usually run standard 300s or 275. I can NOT recommend a XL-Engine in this Mech (doesnt work cuz of space need of AC 20 either), the side torsi of that Mech are just too big. AC 20, 5 ML and a Standard 300 should work well enough. At least, 432 Armor is no problem.

Like this:

CTF 1X

Standard 300 Engine (runs 76,4 kph with speed tweak)
15 Double Heat Sinks
AC 20 with 4 tons of ammo
5 Medium Lasers
Endo Steel internals
standard armor

This build has been mentioned at the beginning of this topic ( or similar), have to make clear it is THE build for this mech.^^

[Troggy]

Luther,

You are definitely moving in the right direction. A couple things though. 1) Stop spending tonnes of money. The engine you have is fine. A 275 or 300 will make very little to no difference to your play. Buying one of these is a huge waste of time. An XL engine would require retooling of your entire concept, and would make it easier to die. I honestly think it would make it worse.

Endo is always better than Ferro, buy it when you can, but don't sweat it in the short term. It's probably not making the difference between losing and winning, etc.

I don't really understand the obsession with the single ER-PCC. I can see it's value, you may be able to convince opponents that you are more dangerous than you really are, and get them to keep their heads down. But, you don't do nearly enough damage to substantiate that threat. Even a 2 ER-PPC cicada will win in a dual at 800 meters. Also, beginners (and even intermediate/advanced players) tend to stop to snipe. If you stop in that thing, somebody's 2xPCC, Gauss 'pract or PCC Stalker is going to eat your lunch. While you do what? 20 damage in return. In fact, you might actually be better off missing them with the PPC and thereby not attracting fire for easy kills. You would certainly be better off just staying behind cover. Either put some actual ranged weaponry on that thing e.g. a Gauss rifle to back up the PCC, or just 4xER-LL, or give up on this whole "sniper" thing and carry the 4 medium lasers that EVERYBODY thinks you should carry (or 2 large lasers - which amounts to much the same thing).

--
Troggy

[Sadistic Savior]

Troggy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Luther,

You are definitely moving in the right direction. A couple things though. 1) Stop spending tonnes of money. The engine you have is fine. A 275 or 300 will make very little to no difference to your play. Buying one of these is a huge waste of time. An XL engine would require retooling of your entire concept, and would make it easier to die. I honestly think it would make it worse.

This.

XL engines are for the advanced player only IMO. They basically triple the chances of dying, because your engine is exposed in three areas instead of one.

XL engines should not be treated as an easy way to get extra tonnage like Endosteel or Double heat sinks. They have significant drawbacks that most new players will not be prepared for.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 19 April 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(6) I keep hearing "go Endo Steel" - are you referring to the ARMOR or the STRUCTURE?

Structure. The armor version is called "ferro-fibrous". They both trade less weight by taking up more space. Using both will leave you almost no space for weapons or ammo though.

Ferro-Fibrous does provide a minor benefit in tonnage if you have the space to spare. Most people don't. So it is rarely used.

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(7) I'm keeping the ER PPC's, but I appreciate the logical objections

Unless you are sniping, they are not terribly useful, and are a big reason for your heat profile.

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(8) FML, I botched it from the get-go, like a kid who wants the biggest gun (or car with the biggest engine) just 'cause he knows it'll be awesome = I swapped the original AC/10 for the AC/20, been regretting it since; I've always loved using an Autocannon, can't answer "why" really, but that being said I'll downgrade though what should I choose? AC/10/5 or Ultra or LBX?

LBX is like a shotgun...the individual bullets hit all over the mech instead of one place. This is useful if you are trying to get critical hits on a Mech with destroyed armor. Otherwise, it is not useful at all. I would consider this a weapon only advanced players should equip, because it's range of use is pretty narrow.

Ultra Autocannons are like normal ones except that they can fire double shots each turn. The drawback is that they have a chance of jamming, and it takes precious seconds in combat to clear the jam (though it clears on it's own...you don't have to do anything). I would also consider this a weapon best for advanced players. It can do a lot of damage in a short period, and has great range. But it eats ammo like candy and the jamming can get you killed in a fight quickly.

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(9) I'll swap the ER Large for a Medium Laser (anybody here suggest Pulse over 'regular'?)

Pulse versions do slightly more damage, but generate more heat and have less range and weigh more. 2 mediums is generally better than 1 medium pulse. But 2 mediums will take up more space...so pulse is generally used if you are tight on space. Most players do not use pulse weapons.

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(10) I always seem to get pummeled by missiles, so the AMS seems logical, though someone once posted that it's futile at this point in the game - not quite my experience

It provides a definite benefits, both for you and your team (it will shoot down ANY nearby missiles from the enemy...even if they are not coming at you specifically). it will not make you immune to missiles though...it is just a form of damage reduction.

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(11) I feel handicapped when it comes to torso-twisting and simultaneous movement, especially in the heat of battle, though I imagine that'll change with more gametime; also, it feels like my torso-twisting is unnaturally sluggish

This is called "handling" and it is different for different models of mechs. Some can twist smoother and farther and faster than others. As you earn Mech XP, you can spend it in the pilot lab to improve your mech's handling. For me this was a significant benefit. More than you would think looking at the numbers.

Luther Varone, on 18 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

(14) after making several changes already *not mentioning the above possibilities* it is most obvious how costly I've already made this Cataphract be, which I'm quickly coming to dislike

It is like that on most mechs. You will not be able to make all your changes at once. Think of it as a form of leveling.

[qki]

@OP:

shell out 1500000 c-bills for double heatsinks - then you can drop 3 or 4 of them, and withendo-steel structure, that's another 7.5 tons of space - max out the armour, and you can get CASE to protect the ammo in your side torso (prevents ammo explosion damage from spreading over to the next section).

ALso - try to avoid mixing large lasers and PPCs - the reason being that LL is a hitscan weapon, and PPC is a projectile one - either get 2 PPCs, or 2 Large Lasers.

[Luther Varone]

I'm sticking with my current engine, thanks for the help.

I do tend to snipe a bit, hence the ER PPC, and I've been getting some decent kills with it despite the wafting hate on it as I've read here. It does generate a ton of heat, I get that, it's just something I'm trying to work around. With 2 Medium Lasers and 1 PPC, what else? If not an Autocannon, a Gauss maybe? that seems like quite a lot of decently heavy firepower for one 'Mech, much less for a beginner. Or should I just upgrade to 4 total Medium Lasers, and don't bother with a ballistic weapon?

I just euipped Endo-Steel structure, and have 2 double heat sinks (one in arm, one in torso), excluding the single one that came with the engine. should I have more DHS? and does it matter where I put them, I think that was always a pressing question I kept forgetting to ask

[Luther Varone]

just finished one of the few games where I'm still standing...I got 1 kill and 3 assists, most of my team remained. Despite my PPC being destroyed about 2min before the game ended, I still chipped in to the death of an Atlas.

I know, I know, it was probably 80% my team's contribution, but I think the Endo-Steel structure already is showing some help in my endurance. eh? Or am I just high on myself?

but yeah, something to back up those Medium Lasers (or more) would be nice...

[Buckminster]

Endo Steel gives extra weight for more armor. So the ES itself isn't more durable, but having more armor on top of it will make a huge difference.

And I'm with you loving ERPPCs. My Cat K2 has a pair of them, and I love it. Sure, they run hot, especially on tourmaline, but they work for me - my Cat K2 has the best K:D ratio of all my mechs.

[Troggy]

Luther,

I think you completely misunderstood me!

It's not hate for the ERPPC. I like the PPC. I hate complicated aiming paradigms and the ignorance of role-warfare.

On the surface an AC20, 3ML, and an ERPPC is okay (if it fits and you have a 3 button mouse), b/c you can just put the PPC on button three and ignore it in a brawl. It allows you to be not completely useless if it devolves into a pop-tart show.

However, the main questions become - 1) Is that 7 tonnes doing enough damage to be worth carrying it and 2) Are you crippling your team by hanging back and adding a small and pitiful amount of damage (max 3 dps) while the rest of them actually go out and fight the enemy (this is my problem with 1 x PPC cicadas too (you rob your team of a centurion or hunchback). .

Have you considered 2 PPC and a Gauss (or even 2 PPC and a AC20). It would be great but you might have weight trouble with an engine that big (dunno off the top of my head). 2xLL and a Gauss or AC20 would also be great (and 4 tonnes lighter). It wouldn't be much worse brawling, (35 vs 45 damage) but it would be a crapload better at sniping (35 vs 10 damage).

--
Troggy

[Luther Varone]

Troggy, on 21 April 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Have you considered 2 PPC and a Gauss (or even 2 PPC and a AC20). It would be great but you might have weight trouble with an engine that big (dunno off the top of my head). 2xLL and a Gauss or AC20 would also be great (and 4 tonnes lighter). It wouldn't be much worse brawling, (35 vs 45 damage) but it would be a crapload better at sniping (35 vs 10 damage).

Gauss was my second weapon consideration after the PPC, but I was given the allusion that it would be too much weight/space and I'd be SOL when it came to close-quarters.

The PPC is here to stay. The AC/20 is long gone for anyone still mentioning it. If someone suggests my ballistic weapon be an AC/10 or Ultra or LBX, I'll take it under consideration. I would love to have a potent close-quarters weapon as backup, in case my PPC arm gets obliterated like it has these past couple of matches. Right now I'm torn between swapping the Medium Lasers for a Gauuss or "lower caliber" Autocannon.

Most people seem to be focusing their responses on my weapons, which is great and all I really appreciate the attention to detail, but WHAT ABOUT MY ARMOR PLACEMENT? Someone mentioned focusing on torso, take some off head, arms, legs if need be. Hmm, okay, well my arms seem to be frequrntly destroyed before I am as a whole, so I'd like to keep those beefed up; some off the legs, understood, and a few points off the head, okay. How significant is armor on my rear? I seldom tend to turn my back when retreating, as I prefer to strafe and/or reverse out of sight while squeezing off a few rounds, but I know it's not feasible for me to never get circled or shot in the back eventually

[Luther Varone]

here's something I really don't get :: WHY is it saying that my limit has been reached for certain armor spots despite it clearly not being the case (ex: right and left torso are at 50/60, but it says my limit has been reached - and yet I can continue adding some to my legs; same goes for my rear torso, which I have all leveled at 10/60, and center torso is at 70/88). I've tried lowering other armor placement numbers so I can raise these torsos to fill in the gaps but it won't let me >=|