64 replies to this topic

[Loler skates]

Belorion, on 18 April 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

And its certainly not an RPG.

it has pilot skill trees and XP you use to gain skills.

One could argue that this progression show us to be new pilots learning the in and outs of his freshly bought hardware... like in a rpg.

certainly I agree with the overall thrust of your argument.

I just believe the game does have 'SOME' rpg elements.

[Zerberus]

Loler skates, on 18 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

the first games called MMO's were actually text based but nice try.

They started out as being called muds at that.

Excellent point. I chose freelancer (AFAIK the first GRAPHICAL computer game to be called an MMO) because, to be honest, I seriously doubted anyone but myself and a handful of others even knowin what MUDs are or believing tey ever existed. Cripes, half the people here probably have to google Freelancer *raises beer stein*

*Edit* Thanks for reminding me how old I am. Remind me to core you when I get the chance.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 April 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[Barghest Whelp]

They don't. It's called Mechwarrior Online. Not the Mechwarrior MMO.

/Thread

[DirePhoenix]

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

But Planetside 2 is an MMO?

You know what else is an MMO? World of Tanks.

It even won a Golden Joystick for best MMO 2012. MMO news site Ten Ton Hammer named it "Best Community" in 2011.

World of Tanks features:

• 15 vs. 15 match battles
  
• Players level up tank crew skils and purchase hardware upgrades for their tanks.
  
• semi-persistent global war ("Clan Wars") territorial game.

Sound familiar? Their "Clan Wars" global map isn't even persistent. It resets on a regular basis.

[Bagheera]

Hayashi, on 18 April 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Because they're mistaken. At the start of the year someone actually rated MWO as one of the most promising MMORPGs of the year, which also left me scratching my head.

It's multiplayer, but it's not massive.

Nor is it an rpg, technically.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Loler skates, on 18 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

the first games called MMO's were actually text based but nice try.

They started out as being called muds at that.

They weren't called MMOs, as you say yourself, they were called MUDs. The first MMOs weren't called MMOs, they were called MMORPGs because they were role playing games that allowed many people to get together on a persistant world and play out their characters at the SAME time in a virtual world that you could see and interact with in real time. Unlike MUDs which were purely text based and usually involved waiting for others to respond to your actions, they were NOT real time and you weren't actually playing WITH others but responding TO others.

MWO will be a mix of MMO and MMORPG, because like most of the MMORPGs out, role playing is NOT enforced and it's something people either do or don't do. I know of guilds in WoW that are pure RP, they know the history for WoW and it's races and all that and they strictly enforce, within the guild, proper RP within the WoW universe. I know guilds on WoW that don't know a single thing about the WoW storylines and could give a surat's furry hindquarters about it. Same with DDO and EQ and UO and so on. I know people currently playing MWO who DO role play, and I know a lot more who don't role play, again, like just about every single MMORPG out, that's pretty common.

Add in the skill trees and you've got the basics of a RPG game as most people understand it..doesn't actually make it one but oh well, people think what people think and the gods know that getting people to realize just because they THINK something is something doesn't mean it is.

And yes, I remember Freelancer and it did call itself an MMO because THAT acronym means Massive Multiplayer Online..which was exactly what Freelance offered..same as Tribes and Battlefield did later. Online games at that time didn't usually offer the ability for more than 12-16 people to play together at once, usually half those amounts, so Freelance, which offered up to 128 players on a server was an MMO. Tribes allowed up to 64, so did Battlefield 1942(and it's PC successors), and Tribes 2 allowed up to 128 on the same server. These games didn't advertise themselves as MMOs though because by the time they came out, that was reserved for games like UO, EQ and WoW, despite them being MMORPGs.

[TOGSolid]

DirePhoenix, on 18 April 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

You know what else is an MMO? World of Tanks.

It even won a Golden Joystick for best MMO 2012. MMO news site Ten Ton Hammer named it "Best Community" in 2011.

World of Tanks features:

• 15 vs. 15 match battles
  
• Players level up tank crew skils and purchase hardware upgrades for their tanks.
  
• semi-persistent global war ("Clan Wars") territorial game.

Sound familiar? Their "Clan Wars" global map isn't even persistent. It resets on a regular basis.

I was just confused as to why you were bringing up Planetside 2 at all. That game is a legitimate MMO in the classic sense and doesn't really have any comparison to MWO or WoT in the slightest.

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Hayashi]

Zerberus, on 18 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Excellent point. I chose freelancer (AFAIK the first GRAPHICAL computer game to be called an MMO) because, to be honest, I seriously doubted anyone but myself and a handful of others even knowin what MUDs are or believing tey ever existed. Cripes, half the people here probably have to google Freelancer *raises beer stein* *Edit* Thanks for reminding me how old I am. Remind me to core you when I get the chance.

Freelancer is hardly old. At 2001, RuneScape is the oldest graphical undisputed MMO that's still surviving today. The oldest disputed MMO would be Neopets from 1999 - it fits some people's definition of an MMORPG but not others, since even though it had free trade and interaction between players and such, most of the content is strictly single-player.

Edited by Hayashi, 18 April 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Jasen]

Mercules, on 18 April 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Yeah... I just did the trial for EVE... I saw one other person the 10 hours I played. Woooooo... Massive.

This is a complete lie. You start in starter systems... which have typically a steady 20-30 people in them... I guess in 10 hours you couldn't figure out how to warp to a gate/station. Which means your intelligence level is questionable.

[Zerberus]

Hayashi, on 18 April 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Freelancer is hardly old. At 2001, RuneScape is the oldest graphical undisputed MMO that's still surviving today. The oldest disputed MMO would be Neopets from 1999 - it fits some people's definition of an MMORPG but not others, since even though it had free trade and interaction between players and such, most of the content is strictly single-player.

It`s hardly old for US old fogies that have been playing since the Atari2600 and Original Coleco system, agreed. But for a 20-25 year old it could easily be "before his time", and from the overall image I have that`s pretty much exactly where I would assume our main age demographic on here is.

But I did completely forget about Runescape, I must shamefully admit to that.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 April 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[Apnu]

von Pilsner, on 18 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Source? I have never seen the devs call it an MMO, I am genuinely interested to see if they think it is.
Their description seems like they want it to be a tactical fps with sim elements...

There's an interview out there with one of the devs and he specifically says "MMO" when describing the product. But looking at the pillars of the game (Role Warfare, Info Warfare, Community Warfare) strongly suggests the game will be a MMO. The CW puts in a persistent world that players compete over and that's one of the largest halmarks of a MMO. But were's also supposed to be able to make our pilot (character?) be able to specialize in role, which is suspiciously like player classes in RPGs.

Does this make the game an MMO? Depends on your definition. I think so, based off this definition: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/MMO In this game, when CW is online, a large number of players will be able to interact (ok not drop into the same game, but so what? DDO does it this way and its defiantly a MMO) in a persistent world. Oddly, in DDO, it doesn't matter what your character does or is or what guild they belong to. All the quests are the same and the outcome of the quest doesn't change one thing in the world. Yet, DDO is a MMO.

So, I also acknowledge that the defination of a MMO is blurry at best. There's a lot of marketing tied up in the term just like there's a lot of marketing tied up in book genras at Barnes and Noble.

Strangely, PGI is very careful with the term MMO, since that interview to not say MMO, but they also don't deny it either. See: http://www.zam.com/s...tml?story=29026 There' asked, point blank about the game being an MMO and they don't deny that fact at all. If the game was not an MMO, don't you think they'd correct the interviewer?

I think they're cagey about the label because the game is in flux and they want to be able to change things as the game needs as they go. So they avoid defining what the game exactly is because they don't honestly know what the game exactly is.

[Apnu]

Bagheera, on 18 April 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Nor is it an rpg, technically.

Well on paper is sorta looks like one. In the current game state there isn't much to do with our 'toons but keep unlocking elites on mechs and earning GXP for modules. I have no stats to improve, or class to adhere to or any of that. But Role Warfare suggests we can specialize in roles and that sounds RPG-like to some people.

[Cyberwolf]

it will be Massive when Community warfare is out in which case their will be thousands of players existing in a persistent world that doesn't go away when you log-off.

Right now though its more a MOBA--- Multi-player Online Battle Arena or rock-sockum -Robots if your Old like me.

[Chavette]

Its an MMO MOBA

[DCLXVI]

6 clan mechs vs 18 is mechs would give this game an mmo feel XD, if they think out of the box a little they can still live up to what they were selling last fall

[Kristov Kerensky]

Hayashi, on 18 April 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Freelancer is hardly old. At 2001, RuneScape is the oldest graphical undisputed MMO that's still surviving today. The oldest disputed MMO would be Neopets from 1999 - it fits some people's definition of an MMORPG but not others, since even though it had free trade and interaction between players and such, most of the content is strictly single-player.

You are a bit young eh?

Ultima Online, 1997...MMORPG still running today, followed by EverQuest in 1999 and also still running today. MMORPGs have been around for a bit now, and MMO is the common shorthand for that. Like I said, Freelancer called itself an MMO, not an MMORPG, due to the fact that it did something no one else was really doing, allowing truely massive multiplayer online gaming with 128 player servers. Tribes 2 and BF1942 were out when Freelancer hit the market, and both of them allowed 64 to 128 players per map, but they didn't market as MMOs because that was really the bailiwick of games like UO and EQ and the games weren't meant to be MMORPG style games, so why bother marketing them as such? Freelancer WAS an MMORPG style game, both by design and in actual implementation, so they used MMO in their marketing..but kind of avoided the RPG bit, which was actually part of the game.

Runescape is one of the oldest MMORPGs still running, but it's definitely not THE oldest

*edit*
ALMOST forgot Asheron's Call, 1999, and still running today! UO started the MMORPG genre, EQ and AC were in development at the same time but released later and were definintely more stable..which is like calling a 3 legged chair more stable then a 2 1/2 legged chair Runescape is the baby of the MMORPG genre compared to UO, EQ and AC.

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 18 April 2013 - 01:23 PM.

[Zerberus]

Jeezus, Is my memory getting that bad? Pong was still before Asteroids, right?

But side topic: wasn´t UO shut down in the whole Origin bankruptcy /sellout thing?

Side topic 2: What sucked a bit about freelancer in MP was that you were either flying as a goroup, or you could easily go for days without seeing another player. When the Discovery mod was introduced and more than quadrupled the map size, that went to a whole new level. Took me lmost 3 weeks to find every system, node and hole, and didn`t see a single player during teh entire trip, but some of the discovery NPCs were really evil... ******* used nanobots and shield batteries, understood engine kill maneuvers, and truly understood dogfighting to a good degree..

Wasn`t an issue if you wanted to do NPC missions or pirating and stuck to known systems and trade routes. But it wasn`t uncommon to have to actively look and see where everybody was to actually find some action. On many servers MP eventually devolved into 24/7 duels either in front of Malta or Crete....

I think that`s what eventuially caused it`s downfall (together with MS never really promoting it and shutting down the global servers in IIRC 2010), the world would have easily had room for 1000 people w/o overcrowding, but that would have overloaded just about any concievable server at the time, in fact it wasnt until about 2005-2006 that the first truly stable and lag free 128 man servers started popping up.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 April 2013 - 01:40 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Zerberus, UO is still going today, http://www.uo.com/ 15 years so far. EQ and AC are at 13 years each and still going today. All 3 have had sequals which didn't do as well and in some cases, like AC2, were shut down after a few years, but the originals are still up, still being played and often still being played by people who started them back when they were new.

Freelancer was a great game, but the online side was always a bit..empty. I could jump on Tribes or BF1942 and immediately get a game with 63 other players(or 127 in Tribes 2) but Freelancer..I could go days or weeks without seeing another living player on a server, and that killed it for me long before 2010, within a year or so of the game coming out really, I wasn't playing it.

[Hellcat420]

DirePhoenix, on 18 April 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

..probably the same reason they call PlanetSide2 an MMO.

Even if it's just a bunch of 12v12 match battles, it's still a persistent universe where those battles count toward territorial gain, and you have a persistent character that progresses through it all.

Maybe not the level of what I'd expect for an MMORPG, but it's still an MMO.

ther is no persistant universe. this is a vechicle fps, nothing more. even cw when released is not a persistant universe, its a scoreboard.

[Zerberus]

Kristov Kerensky, on 18 April 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Zerberus, UO is still going today, http://www.uo.com/ 15 years so far. EQ and AC are at 13 years each and still going today. All 3 have had sequals which didn't do as well and in some cases, like AC2, were shut down after a few years, but the originals are still up, still being played and often still being played by people who started them back when they were new.

Ah, cool to know that Lord British`s legacy is still alive and well

Quote

Freelancer was a great game, but the online side was always a bit..empty. I could jump on Tribes or BF1942 and immediately get a game with 63 other players(or 127 in Tribes 2) but Freelancer..I could go days or weeks without seeing another living player on a server, and that killed it for me long before 2010, within a year or so of the game coming out really, I wasn't playing it.

Aff. The only things that kept me going after the first 2 years were the discovery mod and my Clan. But eventually even that wore off.

But the fiirst weeks of the discovery mod were awesome. people that had been flying eagles for 2 years and thought they were Imba with their nomie blasters and tizonas (which, after lurking in unknown systems for 3 hours and not dying is a valid assesment in the original game) were suddenly getting cut to ribbons by 5 level 3 wolfhounds in new york, on a 12000 credit mission. Oh it was glorious to watch the whining.

And than they introduced capital ships and cargo ships with insanely large holds, and teh universe was never the same again.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 April 2013 - 02:11 PM.