85 replies to this topic

[Alois Hammer]

Roadbeer, on 20 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

This is serious business and it needs a poll.

With a serious "Make them all stand and fight, no more having fun wrong!!!!1!!!!!!" option.

[CDLord HHGD]

[MuadXDib]

l2


p

[Mercules]

FunkyFritter, on 20 April 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Teams being able to "miss" each other completely means bad map design, the game mode itself is fine.

They designed the maps well... the issue is the players who refuse to actually look around for those that might be going past their flank. Often it is as simple as one mech peeking over a ridge and then swinging back to join the group.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Add a team deathmatch mode, sure. Change assault TO team deathmatch? Nah.

Yes, I agree there should be some sort of mode in which you only WIN when all of the other team's mechs are destroyed. That's not what assault is supposed to be, though. That is quite the definition of team deathmatch. And yeah, I'd play the crap out of some TDM and likely never play assault again.

But if you can't defend while attacking, then you can't very well attack either. Time to cork the whine bottle...

[Thundercles]

Alois Hammer, on 20 April 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

"Abuse?"

Yeah yeah yeah we know, "They're having fun wrong."

Actually, no. I'm not against capping as a concept. It's current implementation is FAR too easy to exploit though, all cries of "defend your base!" aside. If it weren't, it wouldn't be as popular as it is. If capping actually required any sort of cooperation to pull off, that'd be one thing. But it doesn't. And minimal cooperation is a much larger multiplier on capping than it is on defending.

If all you're going for is a quick win with minimal rewards other than the knowledge that you just trolled/wasted a bunch of people's time, then please go right ahead.

Incidentally, I derive the definition of 'abuse' in this case from an entity that is far more acquainted with the concept... Blizzard. If any company knows about players that game the system, it'd be them. Referring back to the post you took arms against... I'd think purposely dropping cap trolling teams to mess with people trying to participate in a PGI sponsored tournament would fall on the malicious side of the line. At best, it crosses into a gray area the rest of the time.

[Alois Hammer]

Thundercles, on 20 April 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Incidentally, I derive the definition of 'abuse' in this case from an entity that is far more acquainted with the concept... Blizzard.

I derive the definition of "Abuse" in MWO from PGI's definition that capping is a viable tactic.

Until you can get Blizzard to come in and enforce their rules in PGI's game, what Blizzard thinks is as completely irrelevant as what you and the rest of the Sheldons out there think.

Sorry you believe we're having fun wrong, but...get over yourselves or find a game that provides complimentary cheese to go with your whine.

Edited by Alois Hammer, 20 April 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Alois Hammer, on 20 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

I derive the definition of "Abuse" in MWO from PGI's definition that capping is a viable tactic.

Until you can get Blizzard to come in and enforce their rules in PGI's game, what Blizzard thinks is as completely irrelevant as what you and the rest of the Sheldons out there think.

Sorry you believe we're having fun wrong, but...get over yourselves or find a game that provides complimentary cheese to go with your whine.

Quite a bit of win posted up there.

/applaud.

[Corvus Antaka]

Wizard Steve, on 19 April 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

This.

Please DEFEND YOUR BASE!

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 20 April 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

While we are at it....what exactly is the "wonder" in Wonderbread?

[Roadbeer]

Thorn Hallis, on 20 April 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

While we are at it....what exactly is the "wonder" in Wonderbread?

The fact that it's constructed out of things not normally found in nature.

Edited by Roadbeer, 20 April 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Thundercles]

Alois Hammer, on 20 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

I derive the definition of "Abuse" in MWO from PGI's definition that capping is a viable tactic.

Until you can get Blizzard to come in and enforce their rules in PGI's game, what Blizzard thinks is as completely irrelevant as what you and the rest of the Sheldons out there think.

Sorry you believe we're having fun wrong, but...get over yourselves or find a game that provides complimentary cheese to go with your whine.

Is capping viable? Yes. Is capping with the INTENT to "troll"? That's not quite the same. That's simply using the rules as they are to try to spoil someone else's fun.

Frankly, i could care less how you have fun. I'm just pointing out that current capping is borderline exploitable in how easy it is. If you cap a lot, I think you know what I mean... whether you'd like to face up to it or not.

At any rate, we're obviously not going to sway one another's thinking on the topic.

[Anton Shiningstar]

Daikyu Kell, on 19 April 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Another match and another cap race, one team goes one way the other goes the other and never a shot is fired, BORING BORING BORING. I come here to fight, to pit my skills against the cream of mechwarriors but no, over and over again we are subject to those who just want to cap the base and be done.This is mechWARRIOR not mechcap

Devs, PLEASE either take the cap out of the assault mode or make a cap the flag mode. Yes i'm having a ***** but there are those who agree, just have to watch the ingame chat.

Then you should get used to sometimes needing to go back and fight at your base.

Edited by Anton Shiningstar, 20 April 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I do feel assault is 'kinda lame on such large maps' mainly because the teams generally battle around the same area. On conquest though it can be good to stretch your legs, given that's possible which is an annoyance in itself, but everything's subject to change and I'm sure those are coming.

That, coupled w/ the longer average drop time has been on my mind quite a bit. Actually it's gotten to the point if a light 'mech is all that's left on such large maps and we're going to be chasing the little ****** (hey, I said bu gger!) I'll just DC, because time is money..

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 20 April 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[Zerberus]

Doesnt reading the same thread 3x a day get boring eventually? 0.o

[Thorn Hallis]

Roadbeer, on 20 April 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

The fact that it's constructed out of things not normally found in nature.

You sure about that? I could swear that I saw Azodicarbonamide in the park yesterday...

[CharlesBronson]

One assault mech is not capable of winning a match for his or her team by singe handedly destroying 8 other mechs in a fire fight. Why is one light mech capable of winning an entire match by himself then? I like the idea of assault but it does need some other mechanic to make it a more interesting tactical game. Running to a capzone is as much "tactics" as the assault mechs moving to the same location everytime to fight it out, so i don't really see how it makes anyone a brilliant strategist.

I have also been trolled enough in games to know you need some type of alternate win condition or we will have a TON of 15 min matches. My suggestion, some sort of proportion of your team compared to the opposing team needs to be in the cap zone for it to start counting down. Or simply 1/4 of your remaining mechs must be in the capzone to cap. Say if eight on each side still exists, you need 2 mechs in order to start capping. This would force the cappers (which yes is a viable tactic just not the way its implemented as one lone pilot with no coordination can win a match on his own) to coordinate an assault on the enemies cap, and also adds a bit of a gamble to it as now you are forced to pull more firepower off the frontline to induce a cap.

[Lege]

No capping before 4 total deaths maybe. You need to scout, the maps aren't that big. Maybe no capping in the first 5 minutes. Your base is your home, defend it.

[Roadbeer]

Thorn Hallis, on 20 April 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

You sure about that? I could swear that I saw Azodicarbonamide in the park yesterday...

Sounds like something a Baltic / Middle Eastern country should be named, not something I should be putting in my body.

[TB Freelancer]

Thundercles, on 20 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Thank goodness PGI doesn't have an "Abuse of Game Mechanics" policy like some other gaming companies. Trolling is one thing, but trolling a sanctioned game event is quite another. No, I'm not participating in the Assault tourney, so it's not a sour grapes thing. It's the attitude that its ok to abuse cap mechanics at the expense of the gameplay of others. A very prevalent attitude, it seems, so there's no use arguing about it I suppose. Neither side will be swayed.

How is taking a light lance, outmaneuvering the other team and capping abusing game mechanics? Capping is a win condition. Period.

Like one of the guys said last night as 3 of us stepped onto the enemy base, 2 of us with capture accelerators, about 30 seconds before we ever even got to their base...we decided to prove a point.

"Zippidy doo da! Zippidy day!"
"Your base is ours!"
"Have a wonderful day!"

Now matter how you ***** and moan about it, call it exploiting, griefing, whatever. It isn't. It is a legitimate tactic, and a valid win condition, period. The only blame to go around in this situation is to the losing team for not playing intelligently.

As much as I absolutely hate losing to a cap, mainly because in the overwhelming majority of cases its entirely predictable and preventable, what I find even more disgusting is how so many veteran players so completely and intentionally ignore all the warnings out of some twisted, self destructive spite. They don't even bother returning to their base getting capped even though they are less than 600m away, then ***** and moan about it when they lose.

The cappers are simply capitalizing on a predictable meta and predictable player behaviour. As it stands, the vast majority of players run monkey see monkey do cookie cutter load outs, have a mindless death match mentality based on false misconceptions and do absolutely nothing to help the team as a whole thinking that getting the most kills in a match trumps actually helping the team and winning. Its a purely mememe mentality that has no place in a proper team game.

The problem isn't cappers, its a pervasively mindless attitude towards how most play the game....


....what strikes me as particularly ironic is how most who call themselves mechwarriors seem to place themselves on a pedestal and constantly reference the mindless CS or COD communities as mindless, immature children despite the fact that their actions in game prove them to be no better.