154 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

shabowie, on 21 April 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

My guess is they would be quite viable at that DPS in the lighter weight classes for zero heat and weight of 2-4 tons for 2-6 MG with one ton ammo, plus whatever extra ammo you want to bring.

There's enough data in the MG feedback thread that we don't have to guess any more; a 1.2 DPS MG would effectively do 0.6 DPS and would likely not be viable. It would be *more* viable than it is now, but then again, right now it's not viable at all. 1.2 DPS is the absolute minimum the MG needs; somewhere around 2.0 is probably the place it needs to be to be even remotely in the same league as the Small Laser.

Also, there's no light 'mech with six ballistic hardpoints, no matter what the PGI devs say. The only 'mech with six ballistic hardpoints is the JagerMech; hardly a light 'mech. It is designed to use the larger ballistics, and anyone that uses it as an MG platform is gimping both themselves and their team.

[WolvesX]

Any direct critics on my 2 weapon ideas so far?

(LIGHT MACHINE CANNON and MACHINE CANNON)

[FupDup]

Taemien, on 21 April 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Yeah but you have to be in range where a 7ton protomech can flop around and do the same damage at the same range with its frenzy melee attack. This is why I don't like using TT to prove damage values. I like to use the spirit of the game/lore as a gauge instead.

The spirit of the lore was that they did a lot of damage for their weight at the drawbacks of ammo asplosions and needing to be in knife-fighting range.

Right now the spirit of PGI's MGs is that they don't hurt armor and can't even crit out exposed components half the time.

Edited by FupDup, 22 April 2013 - 07:22 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

WolvesX, on 22 April 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Any direct critics on my 2 weapon ideas so far?

(LIGHT MACHINE CANNON and MACHINE CANNON)

MG is already essentially a light machine cannon. Think a 20mm type high rate of fire gun like the cannon on a ww2 fighter only with better HE rounds.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 22 April 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

There's enough data in the MG feedback thread that we don't have to guess any more; a 1.2 DPS MG would effectively do 0.6 DPS and would likely not be viable. It would be *more* viable than it is now, but then again, right now it's not viable at all. 1.2 DPS is the absolute minimum the MG needs; somewhere around 2.0 is probably the place it needs to be to be even remotely in the same league as the Small Laser.

A Small Laser does 1 damage per second IIRC Jobe. Follow the Small laser's example an the Machine gun will be a viable small ballistic weapon.

[Keifomofutu]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

A Small Laser does 1 damage per second IIRC Jobe. Follow the Small laser's example an the Machine gun will be a viable small ballistic weapon.

Small laser both has no cone and dumps its 3 damage in .75 seconds. Both are so small as to make their heat factor irrelevant so no mgs lack of heat doesn't even it out.

[MiraTheKilla]

Would a Smaller, game relative ballistic weapon not be a rotary AC2?

[Keifomofutu]

Mirakuu, on 22 April 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Would a Smaller, game relative ballistic weapon not be a rotary AC2?

You're probably greatly overestimating how many rotary ac2s you can fit in a ballistic spider. *cough* ONE *cough*

[MiraTheKilla]

Keifomofutu, on 22 April 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

You're probably greatly overestimating how many rotary ac2s you can fit in a ballistic spider. *cough* ONE *cough*

Ah...yes, that's right. Lol...I wasnt thinking spider.

Maybe when the clan comes they will bring their machinguns that do a wee bit more damage.

Edited by Mirakuu, 22 April 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Keifomofutu, on 22 April 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Small laser both has no cone and dumps its 3 damage in .75 seconds. Both are so small as to make their heat factor irrelevant so no mgs lack of heat doesn't even it out.

An easy fix to be added to the humble Machine gun make it's damage dump in the same amount of time! I hadn't even mentioned the lack of heat... Did I?

[Keifomofutu]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

An easy fix to be added to the humble Machine gun make it's damage dump in the same amount of time! I hadn't even mentioned the lack of heat... Did I?

You didn't mention the heat. But the "MG IS FINE" crowd always bring up lack of heat on the mg compared to small laser like the smalls are putting out as much heat as a PPC. The explosive ammo is probably a far bigger factor to your general light ballistic boat than the lack of heat on mgs is. Assuming mg's firing mechanics don't change to dump damage in a brief window then they do in fact need quite a bit more base dps than smalls.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 21 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

You will get light variants of existing weapons(ACs,PPC,gauss and maybe some) and heavy also(including lasers).We just have to w8 to get them...

The funnt thing about the stupid *** **** you just said is. If we wait for them sinxe the game is following a 1:1 timeline we would have to wait 8 fuxking years for those light gauss which I am dying to ram two of on a blackjack

[WolvesX]

"The MG needs to do more damage than a small laser (DPS) but should do a tiny bit of heat" - Right / Wrong?

[OneEyed Jack]

I voted no, because we don't need a new weapon, and the Devs will not make up a new weapon (or give us one way, way outside the timeline). What we need is for MGs to.... you know... do something besides make noise and occasionally blow up.

[MustrumRidcully]

WolvesX, on 22 April 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

"The MG needs to do more damage than a small laser (DPS) but should do a tiny bit of heat" - Right / Wrong?

I am not convinced it's necessary to give it heat to balance it. Certainly not in the current alpha-strike meta where DPS is meaningless and alpha is everything. But even if we assume that this won't last, and we go back to a more brawling focused gameplay, machine gun ammo may very well serve as the equivalent of heat sink cost for other weapons. If you want to boat 12 Machine Guns (let's say the Piranha arrives on the battlefield, because otherwise I see no mech that could feasibly require 12 ballistic hard points) and have a chance to kill more than one mech, you'll need to boat MG ammo. Currently one ton of MG ammo delivers 80 damage. Let's say we increase the DPS but adjust the ammo/ton so it stays at around 100 damage per ton. Let's say you have 50 % accuracy. That means to destroy one Atlas CT, you'd need up to 180 damage or almost 4 tons of MG ammo. If the DPS was 2, it would need a bit over 12 seconds to deliver that damage. I think that's acceptable.