165 replies to this topic

[TheSteelRhino]

FupDup, on 20 April 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Even an AMS would be better for 1.5t because some people still use Lurms (even though they're weak) and most missile-capable mechs load Streaks (which are still quite useful).



If 4 out of 5 weapons on a mech are machine guns, they're the main weapons. A weapon is not designated as "main" in the mechlab, it is decided by how the player outfits their robot. My point still stands.



Then torso twist while let your heat dissipate and/or equip some lower-heat weapons like Gauss. There's also the ever-popular strategy of hillhumping/poptarting.

I'll get a lot more for just one ton in a medium laser. Or even a single small laser for 0.5t is better. Or a small pulse. Or an SRM2 (2 tons with ammo).

Cute...yes..very serious actually. I see you cannot come up with an argument so you throw in meaningless clips.

[Joe Mallad]

while i love that a debate such as this one is so close in the poll, i still have not heard any good reason as to why machine guns would not be better with a damage buff to bring them in line with other small mech weapons... besides they are meant for anti-infantry killing. And again... if thats the only argument for them, than they have no reason to be in a game where all we are fighting is other mechs. I really feel those that say no just to say no, just dont want to have to worry about another weapon that the light mechs and medium mech more so than other mechs could really use right now to hurt you precious boats

[Lege]

Must have constant rat a tat tat. They do need to double the damage of machine guns to make them viable.

[TheSteelRhino]

Read LORE.

HA..now was it Shin Yodama that said "The machine guns just make them mad?" I remember it was a Kurita Phoenix Hawk Pilot.... Turtle Bay or Edo maybe? In one of the novels....

Yes machine guns can hurt an elemental but it's not instakill.


So a machine gun does 2 damage..remember..in table top its 2 damage every 10 second turn (yes..a turn is 10 seconds)..here...ppl are talking about a 1 second "recharge". so..2 damage...every 1 second.

Can you imagine a 6 MG spider, doing 12 damage every other second? WITH NO HEAT?

You need to think things through.

NO.

Edited by Rhinehardt Ritter, 20 April 2013 - 06:59 PM.

[FupDup]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 20 April 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Cute...yes..very serious actually. I see you cannot come up with an argument so you throw in meaningless clips.

Touche.

Let's go back to your previous post:

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 20 April 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

Terrible idea. Machine guns are supposed to be anti infantry weapons. They cannot even take out an elemental.

I see no evidence to back up hose points. Here is my evidence to refute them:

1. Mech-mounted Machine Guns do 2 damage in Table Top to armored units, including battlemechs.
2. MGs are known for being extremely lethal against armored infantry (including battle armor like Elementals). Against infantry, they use 2D6 damage.

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 20 April 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

So a machine gun does 2 damage..remember..in table top its 2 damage every 10 second turn (yes..a turn is 10 seconds)..here...ppl are talking about a 1 second "recharge". so..2 damage...every 1 second.

Can you imagine a 6 MG spider, doing 12 damage every other second? WITH NO HEAT?

You need to think things through.

NO.

1. The 6MG Spider doesn't exist.
2. Nobody wants 2 damage per shot in MWO. That is a strawman. Nobody wants them above 2 DPS. Most want them under 2 DPS.
3. No heat is overrated. Small lasers have that ability as well and have infinite ammo (also saves tonnage because of no ammo, and no ammo explosions).

Edited by FupDup, 20 April 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[Loler skates]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 20 April 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Cute...yes..very serious actually. I see you cannot come up with an argument so you throw in meaningless clips.

Well sure if you don't bother to read anything in the thread yes?

There are tonnes of counter-points to what you think if you can be bothered to read.

[Joe Mallad]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 20 April 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Read LORE.

HA..now was it Shin Yodama that said "The machine guns just make them mad?" I remember it was a Kurita Phoenix Hawk Pilot.... Turtle Bay or Edo maybe? In one of the novels....

Yes machine guns can hurt an elemental but it's not instakill.


So a machine gun does 2 damage..remember..in table top its 2 damage every 10 second turn (yes..a turn is 10 seconds)..here...ppl are talking about a 1 second "recharge". so..2 damage...every 1 second.

Can you imagine a 6 MG spider, doing 12 damage every other second? WITH NO HEAT?

You need to think things through.

NO.

and you just argued against your own argument sir. Yes we are asking for machine guns to do 2 to 3 damage per second. Why? Because every other weapon in the game can do WAY MORE damage in a matter of a few secounds. Remember... an AC 2 also did only 2 damage per 10 second round in table top. Yet here it can do 4 damage per second so that would be 40 damage in a 10 second table top round. hummmm... whats the problem here?

[Team Leader]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 20 April 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Read LORE.

HA..now was it Shin Yodama that said "The machine guns just make them mad?" I remember it was a Kurita Phoenix Hawk Pilot.... Turtle Bay or Edo maybe? In one of the novels....

Yes machine guns can hurt an elemental but it's not instakill.


So a machine gun does 2 damage..remember..in table top its 2 damage every 10 second turn (yes..a turn is 10 seconds)..here...ppl are talking about a 1 second "recharge". so..2 damage...every 1 second.

Can you imagine a 6 MG spider, doing 12 damage every other second? WITH NO HEAT?

You need to think things through.

NO.

Hey genius, news flash, we aren't PLAYING A BOOK. This is a video game, it's supposed to be fun and BALANCED. If you have weapons that are absolute junk but your chassis can only mount them, you're not gonna be having much fun because your weapons are absolute trash. Go ahead, go take a spider 5k with 4 MGs, go up against anything, and tell me they're "Just fine"

Some people are absolutely brain dead in here.

[Joe Mallad]

Team Leader, on 20 April 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Hey genius, news flash, we aren't PLAYING A BOOK. This is a video game, it's supposed to be fun and BALANCED. If you have weapons that are absolute junk but your chassis can only mount them, you're not gonna be having much fun because your weapons are absolute trash. Go ahead, go take a spider 5k with 4 MGs, go up against anything, and tell me they're "Just fine"

Some people are absolutely brain dead in here.

read my above post

[Loler skates]

Yoseful Mallad, on 20 April 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

read my above post

I don't know why I bother to take to actually take people seriously. So many of them are basically just walking sacks of meat that put 0 effort into actually thinking about what they say. They sit back and just run on auto pilot no deep thought about anything it shows so clearly in all the people who just cover the same stupid talking points and rhetoric about infantry.

[Royalewithcheese]

Leedair, on 20 April 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

They really do kill crits, try them.

You know what also "kills crits?" AC/40.

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 20 April 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Can you imagine a 6 MG spider

Haha you actually had me going for a while

[Loler skates]

Royalewithcheese, on 20 April 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

You know what also "kills crits?" AC/40.



Haha you actually had me going for a while

hes probably trolling.. Probably.

THen again PGI devs think the spider has 6 mgs....

So who knows if PGI are that stupid can we be sure any one else isn't?

[Joe Mallad]

Loler skates, on 20 April 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

I don't know why I bother to take to actually take people seriously. So many of them are basically just walking sacks of meat that put 0 effort into actually thinking about what they say. They sit back and just run on auto pilot no deep thought about anything it shows so clearly in all the people who just cover the same stupid talking points and rhetoric about infantry.

i created this thread in hopes that my idea would at least spake a fire under PGI do give machine guns more bite. They can keep the added bonus that machine guns can or may do extra damage to internals but at least make them able to do some relevant damage to armor too. I love a good debate and will never tell anyone their reasoning behind what they think is not good enough but if you are going to argue something, (like you say) at least understand the point you are trying to get across lol

[DegeneratePervert]

Lord of All, on 20 April 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

MG's are for infantry period. get over it.

*****.

I disagree with the suggestion simply because it feels like machine guns need to be a constant fire to help make up for their lack of heat. But hey, your suggestion is better than what we've currently got, so I wouldn't be unhappy if it made it in.

[Team Leader]

Loler skates, on 20 April 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

So who knows if PGI are that stupid can we be sure any one else isn't?

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"
We can't be sure. They're everywhere, all among us. They can't read, they can barely spell. They stand in line and only look at the menu to order when they're at the counter. They watch reality TV. They don't use their turn signals... EVER. They breathe through their mouths at all times. The stupid... THEY WALK AMONG US.

Edited by Team Leader, 20 April 2013 - 07:17 PM.

[Lord of All]

Yoseful Mallad, on 20 April 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

than why dont we have infantry to use an infantry weapon on? If thats the best you can come up with... machine guns should just be taken out of the game all together

not as useless as machine guns at the moment.

Infantry are hanging out with the command module functions. As well as the Vehicles.

Loler skates, on 20 April 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

...

some light and medium mechs are supposed to run with machine guns as their primary weapon though.

Ohh and what Mechs would those be?


Why don't you people that think Mg's are for mech battles just read this.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun

Quote

The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon

[FupDup]

Lord of All, on 20 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Ohh and what Mechs would those be?

RVN-4X
CDA-3C
SDR-5K
JM6-DD

Lord of All, on 20 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Why don't you people that think Mg's are for mech battles just read this.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun

1. That Sarna page lists MGs as doing 2 damage to battlemechs.

2. "Quintessential" doesn't mean exclusively. It means "perfect embodiment of." It means that the MG is the posterboy of anti-infantry weapons. There is nothing in there saying that it sucks against mechs, because it doesn't suck against mechs.

[Joe Mallad]

Lord of All, on 20 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Infantry are hanging out with the command module functions. As well as the Vehicles.



Ohh and what Mechs would those be?


Why don't you people that think Mg's are for mech battles just read this.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun

and small lasers were created for the same reason... yet they have been made into a weapon for mech combat look into the lore of the small laser

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 20 April 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Loler skates]

Lord of All, on 20 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Infantry are hanging out with the command module functions. As well as the Vehicles.



Ohh and what Mechs would those be?


Why don't you people that think Mg's are for mech battles just read this.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun

Quote

It should be noted that despite their enhanced effectiveness against infantry, BattleMech machine guns are perfectly capable of stripping the armor off any BattleMech.

Same ******** article

Lord of All, on 20 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Infantry are hanging out with the command module functions. As well as the Vehicles.



Ohh and what Mechs would those be?


Why don't you people that think Mg's are for mech battles just read this.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_gun

Mouth breather detected.

ABORT ABORT.

[LinkIcefang]

Those who think the MG should be for anti-infantry only, please read this:

"Small, lethal, and limitless, the Small Laser serves as an anti-personnel "infinite repeater" against infantry and lightly armored vehicles."

http://www.ign.com/w...ine/Small_Laser