165 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

Leedair, on 20 April 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

No. 1.5t ammo and weapon. No heat and basically unlimited ammo. Not much should be expected for so little cost. Designed and works as a crit killer. Seems like it might introduce a boating nightmare. They really do kill crits, try them.

um... by the time you have taken the armor off of a mech, all weapons kill crits lol. So why not give machine guns a bit more bite like all other weapons and allow them to do some relevant damage to armor. We are talking about MECH sized machine guns and rounds here (not infantry grade machine guns) at least they could do is give them a flat 2 points of damage per .5 burst. I mean machine guns do at least 2 damage in table top so why not here?

[Loler skates]

Blackfire1, on 20 April 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

MACHINE GUN 16 matches
8,709
rounds Fired
4,704 Hit
54.01%
01:29:50
Time used 167 Total Damage.

thats some scary **** man. You like blew up two mechs with that maybe in 4700 hits.

[snakeman5150]

I realy like 6 Mgs on my DD with two LL there cumulative damage mite only be 80 per ton but theres no over kill meaning if the mech has 1 hit point left no need to waste you LL and heat. when fireing Mgs they my not exsplode but Ive seen a lot of mech just fold up and fall. so no I would not like them to be bust fire but mabye more Ammo per ton would be nice 2000 rds a ton those have to be some big rounds and mabye a modest bost in power .06?

[Sephlock]

There has to be some way to make them good without losing the dakka.

[danust]

FupDup, on 20 April 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

That makes much less difference in combat than it sounds like it does on paper. Lots of ammo is useless because it can explode and it also does next to no effect on your enemy. No heat is overrated because heat is a non-factor in this game if you use DHS. You can and should also use cover to dissipate any excess heat.


The crits are rare and take longer to remove all components from an unarmored section than the time it takes to destroy the entire section with a normal weapon.


Hardpoints prevent this. Also, how can it kill crits? I never knew that crits could be killed.

Use during cool down. I would never suggest as a main weapon and it does take time to remove ALL the components. If you can remove a SRM of PPC while cooling it is worth the cost. So very little cost.

-1 for semantic argument on killing non living crits. You know what I was saying. Spider could boat them I guess. Ilya-Go with a 3 PPC's and then have tonnage for 3 MG. Not going to Smufy's over this. 1.5t we are talking about.

You really want this I guess.

[Joe Mallad]

snakeman5150, on 20 April 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

I realy like 6 Mgs on my DD with two LL there cumulative damage mite only be 80 per ton but theres no over kill meaning if the mech has 1 hit point left no need to waste you LL and heat. when fireing Mgs they my not exsplode but Ive seen a lot of mech just fold up and fall. so no I would not like them to be bust fire but mabye more Ammo per ton would be nice 2000 rds a ton those have to be some big rounds and mabye a modest bost in power .06?

ok so at least you give a reason as to why you would not want them the way i suggested. And that i respect. Not trying to change your opinion but think of this for a second. Lets say Machine guns do 3 damage per burst and have a reload time of 1.00 second between bursts. Now lets say you are running a spider with 4 or a Jagermech with 4 to 6. they do not heat so a 1.00 second delay between bursts would not be a big problem if you are ripping into someone with 4 to 6 of them but lets say you have 6 on a Jagermech and you have them set to chainfire or even in 2 group of 3 machine guns each and you fired group 2 just a fraction of a second later than the first set... either way, you can keep a consistent stream of machine gun fire on target and rip into any mech. I dont see a downside to them this way.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 20 April 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[Loler skates]

snakeman5150, on 20 April 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

I realy like 6 Mgs on my DD with two LL there cumulative damage mite only be 80 per ton but theres no over kill meaning if the mech has 1 hit point left no need to waste you LL and heat. when fireing Mgs they my not exsplode but Ive seen a lot of mech just fold up and fall. so no I would not like them to be bust fire but mabye more Ammo per ton would be nice 2000 rds a ton those have to be some big rounds and mabye a modest bost in power .06?

do me a favour please

Go to your stats page and copy/paste the stats for your machine guns

could you format it with the number of hits and damage done being clearly labeled as well

I feel you should take a proper look at what you are actually doing with those machine guns in a match.

Leedair, on 20 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Use during cool down. I would never suggest as a main weapon and it does take time to remove ALL the components. If you can remove a SRM of PPC while cooling it is worth the cost. So very little cost.

-1 for semantic argument on killing non living crits. You know what I was saying. Spider could boat them I guess. Ilya-Go with a 3 PPC's and then have tonnage for 3 MG. Not going to Smufy's over this. 1.5t we are talking about.

You really want this I guess.

some light and medium mechs are supposed to run with machine guns as their primary weapon though.

[FupDup]

Sephlock, on 20 April 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

There has to be some way to make them good without losing the dakka.

[TOGSolid]

Leedair, on 20 April 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

No. 1.5t ammo and weapon. No heat and basically unlimited ammo. Not much should be expected for so little cost. Designed and works as a crit killer. Seems like it might introduce a boating nightmare. They really do kill crits, try them.

Except they don't and you're MUCH better off running a bigger weapon to just instantly shred the spot instead of wasting a huge amount of time trying to crit out a section.

Quote

MACHINE GUN 16 matches
8,709
rounds Fired
4,704 Hit
54.01%
01:29:50
Time used 167 Total Damage.

4,704 hit, only 167 damage. Really these statistics say everything that needs to be said. It's a really bad weapon that needs a buff and it being bad is actively hurting a lot of mechs right now.

snakeman5150, on 20 April 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

I realy like 6 Mgs on my DD with two LL there cumulative damage mite only be 80 per ton but theres no over kill meaning if the mech has 1 hit point left no need to waste you LL and heat. when fireing Mgs they my not exsplode but Ive seen a lot of mech just fold up and fall. so no I would not like them to be bust fire but mabye more Ammo per ton would be nice 2000 rds a ton those have to be some big rounds and mabye a modest bost in power .06?

Do us a favor and post your MG statistics. I've run that build and I can guarantee your lasers are doing all of the work.

Quote

If you can remove a SRM of PPC while cooling it is worth the cost. So very little cost.

Why would you want to trade a weapon that does damage and can instantly shred a section for a weapon that does none of that?

Edited by TOGSolid, 20 April 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Loler skates]

TOGSolid, on 20 April 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Except they don't and you're MUCH better off running a bigger weapon to just instantly shred the spot instead of wasting a huge amount of time trying to crit out a section.


4,704 hit, only 167 damage. Really these statistics say everything that needs to be said. It's a really bad weapon that needs a buff and it being bad is actively hurting a lot of mechs right now.

This is like one of the first posts i've read from you that I really properly agree with.

The only reason mgs receive this attention and not flamers despite flamers being just as useless is because for ballisitics there is no other option.

Energy on the other hand has Small laser, Small pulse, Medium laser and Medium pulse all within 1.5 tonnes of each other meaning even light mechs can use them.

Where as ballistics it's 0.5 tonnes for a MG and then BAM 6 tonnes for an AC/2

[Blackfire1]

I simply do NOT agree that MG's should be like Small lasers. However I do believe they need a slight damage boost.
.035 damage is simply not useful.

[TOGSolid]

Blackfire1, on 20 April 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

I simply do NOT agree that MG's should be like Small lasers. However I do believe they need a slight damage boost.
.035 damage is simply not useful.

Why don't you agree that MGs should be the ballistic weapon equivalent of a nice filler weapon? I don't agree they should be identical and fire in bursts because dakkadakkadakkadakka, but having the same DPS would be nice.

Edited by TOGSolid, 20 April 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[FupDup]

Leedair, on 20 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Use during cool down.

I'd rather replace them with DHS so that I can cool down faster. Or take cover while you cool down. Or torso twist to spread damage.

Leedair, on 20 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I would never suggest as a main weapon and it does take time to remove ALL the components.

That's exactly why it's more advantageous to destroy the entire section, because every component dies instantly and it saves time. Also, "main weapon" is an ambiguous term. Medium lasers are the main weapons on a Jenner, but they're only secondary weapons on an Atlas. It's all about what weapon makes up most of a mech's firepower. Mechs like the Spider 5K and Cicada 3C have 4 ballistic hardpoints and only 1 energy, so most of their weapons will probably be MGs or other ballistics.

Leedair, on 20 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Spider could boat them I guess. Ilya-Go with a 3 PPC's and then have tonnage for 3 MG.

A buffed 4 MG Spider would still die to a Jenner or Raven any day of the week. Or most other boats. Also, 3 MGs wouldn't make much of a difference on a long-range configured mech. It would be better to put that extra weight into other things like armor, DHS, etc.

Edited by FupDup, 20 April 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[Tennex]

it should be less than small laser. but ver close

[Loler skates]

Blackfire1, on 20 April 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

I simply do NOT agree that MG's should be like Small lasers. However I do believe they need a slight damage boost.
.035 damage is simply not useful.

Things the mg does that make it worse than the small laser even if it did the same damage over time.

Needs ammo.
CONE FIRE (Spreads shots all over the place only weapon that does this apart from LBX)
Constant firing (can't torso twist to avoid damage only other weapon that does this is AC/2)
AMMO EXPLOSION (BOOM, my ammo critted and killed me)
DHS (no effect on the mg)

Things laser benefits from

Engine heat sinks meaning small lasers have infinite 'ammo'

DHS(effectively doubles the number of small lasers that can fire forever when energy weapons use heat as their ammo directly)

[Straften]

So that we can have 2 completely useless weapons in the game!

At least machine guns do well once the armor is gone.

[FupDup]

Straften, on 20 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

At least machine guns do well once the armor is gone.

Edited by FupDup, 20 April 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Tennex, on 20 April 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

it should be less than small laser. but ver close

well like i said then... at least allow them to do 2 damage in a .5 second burst.

[Loler skates]

Straften, on 20 April 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

So that we can have 2 completely useless weapons in the game!

At least machine guns do well once the armor is gone.

man that isn't even true.

[danust]

TOGSolid, on 20 April 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Why would you want to trade a weapon that does damage and can instantly shred a section for a weapon that does none of that?

I was saying you could fire the MG during cool down and possibly destroy a PPC or SRM on an enemy mech. I haven't run MG for quite a while and I don't see them real often (more than SLaser) but I have lost components to them 3 times in the last few weeks. I admired their audacity. Not totally worthless for only 1.5t and not a superweapon for sure.