258 replies to this topic

[DCLXVI]

seems if this happens so much... you know where they're going... wait for them there? XD

[Kenyon Burguess]

Jazzbandit1313, on 21 April 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

I can't believe the number of games where I'm playing on a big map like alpine, tourmaline, or caustic, and our team gets back-capped by a group of enemy lights. I'd say around 4/10 games that i play, this happens. A couple of spiders think its funny to slap on a xl with speed tweak and ruin my game every time.

My points,

- This is a terrible way to win, cheating everyone out of c-bills, XP, and a long, fun game.
- Also, some teams don't have any lights and therefore can't possibly get back to base in time to stop the cap.
- Let's be honest its just trolling.

Capper's points,

- Have someone guard base.
*good point but no one wants to stay back and sit there. Also, most team mates will question you for sitting back and doing "nothing"
- Should have a faster mech, buddy
*it's the matchmaking system that screws this up. Some teams have half light mechs while the other is all heavies
- Too bad so sad, go cry.
*excuse me sir but i believe that most mechwarriors with any manners or in game edicate at least try to hold this game to a little bit of a higher standard than Call of Duty. Go learn some meta game and know that sometimes all your doing is ******* everyone off.

This is a very pressing issue, and i think that PGI should put in a system where caps within the first 5 minutes have 25% slower cap rate, or something like this. When i backcap as a light, I leave a sliver or two there, so I'm not fully capping...I go fight, and if I'm the last one left on my team, then, and only then, will i cap the point.

Questions, Comments, concerns?

thank you for posting this. It makes me feel incredibly proud to be a spider pilot who caps the enemy base every chance i get. Your tears of unhappiness will fuel my enjoyment of the game thru those many painful moments where all anyone ever wants to do is slug it out at the same waypoint over and over using the same min/max sniper builds.

[Helsbane]

Beginning of match, you have the opportunity to look around, discover there are no lights / fast movers to respond to a base rush, and alter your plans accordingly. Takes about thirty seconds to a minute, even in a PUG. Failure to do so leads to posts filled with folks crying about how hard it is to defend against base caps...

[Tetatae Squawkins]

I would like to thank all the base cappers out there for inadvertently producing threads like this just by playing the game.

[TOGSolid]

Geist Null, on 21 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

thank you for posting this. It makes me feel incredibly proud to be a spider pilot who caps the enemy base every chance i get. Your tears of unhappiness will fuel my enjoyment of the game thru those many painful moments where all anyone ever wants to do is slug it out at the same waypoint over and over using the same min/max sniper builds.

Tears are the best form of coolant flushes.

Edited by TOGSolid, 21 April 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[Taemien]

DCLXVI, on 21 April 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

seems if this happens so much... you know where they're going... wait for them there? XD

Light/Medium mech pilots like myself would tear him a new one. Thats why they can't do that. Thats what makes them rage so badly, there's simply no way for them to win except get better.

[Sephlock]

Caustic isn't that bad, but as for alpine and tourmaline: I started doing this because frankly it was getting boring as hell endlessly trudging across those gigantic maps looking for enemies that I might not even encounter before the game was over.

[Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra]

Wintersdark, on 21 April 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

This.

Matchmaking weight class balancing went in on the 18th. Most matches are class balanced. They said it's some 84% of matches that are very closely matched - so that's pretty darn close.

If they're not matched and one team has 4 spiders to your 4 assaults/heavies, what the f**k else are they going to do to win?

What are people not understanding here about Light and Medium 'Mechs? If you don't know how to effectively pilot one in a battle, then DON'T PILOT ONE. The whole point is that you become good enough with your 'Mech to run circles around an Assault or Heavy. It's not myth, it happens to me all the time, and I accept and respect the players that go out there and tear **** up in their Commando. I have a friend who's done that to me in other Mechwarrior games, when he gets a good rig and starts playing MWO I know he'll do the same. The point is, you're running a light 'Mech for speed, so don't just use that speed to run across the map, use it in COMBAT.

Having said that, one thing I don't get is why capping even exists in Assault. I get it, it was the first gametype, but now that Conquest has been around a while I don't see the point. If I'm joining a game in Assault, I want to fight, not sit around and cap. I appreciate Conquest and I find it fun (sometimes), but we're Mechwarriors, not Mechcapturers. Base capping in Assault is completely redundant, and if I want to avoid that gameplay element at all in a game, I can't because both gametypes employ it. Maybe if they brought out just plain "Skirmish" or something, where there's straight up combat that would solve the problem. Maybe even 4v4 (Lance vs Lance) instead of 8v8, I don't know. All I know is that OP's right, and capping from the get-go robs us all of C-Bills and of having a solid, fun game. Last night my team won a game this way, and I'd rather go down in a hail of PPC's than win like that.

[Wintersdark]

DCLXVI, on 21 April 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

seems if this happens so much... you know where they're going... wait for them there? XD

Yeah, seriously: If you're playing on assault, and you drop with 8 slow mechs...

Don't move. Everyone. Just wait at, or near, your base.

They'll come to you, they always do. And they'll lose, because you'll be set up and ready, and they will almost certainly trickle in, with the faster mechs coming in first.

There are many, many approaches you can take successfully here.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

The point is, you're running a light 'Mech for speed, so don't just use that speed to run across the map, use it in COMBAT.

Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. Or in this case, just end run them and cap. If the other team is doing something absurdly stupid then you bet your *** I'm gonna run for the cap and just short circuit their fun. I'm not gonna try and beat the other team's crap out of some misguided sense of e-honor (which I don't have in the first place). I'm gonna win and if the only logical counter to a team's cheese is capping then guess what.

That said, I love a good fight but sometimes you just gotta flush a match the fast way.

This weekend though? Yeah, all capping, all the time. Someone has to shake things up for those assault pilots.

Edited by TOGSolid, 21 April 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra, on 21 April 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

What are people not understanding here about Light and Medium 'Mechs? If you don't know how to effectively pilot one in a battle, then DON'T PILOT ONE. The whole point is that you become good enough with your 'Mech to run circles around an Assault or Heavy. It's not myth, it happens to me all the time, and I accept and respect the players that go out there and tear **** up in their Commando. I have a friend who's done that to me in other Mechwarrior games, when he gets a good rig and starts playing MWO I know he'll do the same. The point is, you're running a light 'Mech for speed, so don't just use that speed to run across the map, use it in COMBAT.

One on one, this is great.

However, if you're not playing against a bunch of low-elo scrubs, those assaults you're attacking will all (or at least most) be in line of sight of each other. You can get behind one, but the rest can see you. Circle him? Slow/stop behind him, prevent him from getting a shot at you? The others will ravage you when you do.

With HSR in, being a speedy light is meaningless if the others can see you, because they will hit you and you will die. It's sort of like the problem people had during the LRMpocalypse: If they stayed within LOS of each other, a fast mech could get close to one boat, but the others would destroy him.

Edit to add: In short, 4 lights vs. 4 assaults, where people stick together and play reasonably well on both sides? Those lights are going to die. And they are going to die fast.

Quote

Having said that, one thing I don't get is why capping even exists in Assault. I get it, it was the first gametype, but now that Conquest has been around a while I don't see the point. If I'm joining a game in Assault, I want to fight, not sit around and cap. I appreciate Conquest and I find it fun (sometimes), but we're Mechwarriors, not Mechcapturers. Base capping in Assault is completely redundant, and if I want to avoid that gameplay element at all in a game, I can't because both gametypes employ it. Maybe if they brought out just plain "Skirmish" or something, where there's straight up combat that would solve the problem. Maybe even 4v4 (Lance vs Lance) instead of 8v8, I don't know. All I know is that OP's right, and capping from the get-go robs us all of C-Bills and of having a solid, fun game. Last night my team won a game this way, and I'd rather go down in a hail of PPC's than win like that.

I'll explain this, yet again as I assume you're new here given your small post count: The bases exist in Assault to act as a fail-safe. Without them, people would start the match in ECM lights/cicadas, and if things go poorly (or even if not) they'd just troll everyone by running off and hiding, and you'd never find them. Matches would regularly take 15 minutes each just because the last mechs would scatter just to troll the victors. This *WOULD* happen, we know it would, everyone who's ever gamed online knows it would. People do that sort of thing simply because they can, because it would **** people off.

What's worse? A game you win or lose quickly, and can get into another game immediately? Or one that locks your mech up for 15 minutes? I'd far rather the match end early so I can just jump into another mech, and not need to worry about my ride being locked up in a battle for 15.

Edited by Wintersdark, 21 April 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[KKRonkka]

Capping might be the worst game mode ever invented, period. Tells about serious lack of imagination of that's all developers can produce... "HMMM WHATS POPULAR F2P GAME OH LOOK WOT IS ONE LETS COPY SOME DOZEN IDEAS FROM THERE".

[Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra]

Ok, sorry to double-post, but WTF, LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME.

Taemien, on 21 April 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

The OP is the main reason I cap. I know he doesn't want to face me, so I'm not going to bother to chase his silly *** all around the map. If he wants to fight me he can come back to his base to do so.

Because he knows he'll lose to me at his base, he avoids it. This ticks him off to no end. Again this is why I cap. He will be mad enough to lose any sort of focus he had at the beginning of the match. This makes him an easy target for my teammates to pick off.

I'm the one that moves in and out of an enemy base so Betty keeps saying "Base is being captured" over and over and over. I WANT the enemy to know I'm there. They can fight me if I dare.

Cheap tactic? Maybe. But what are they going to do about it?

Lose?
Whine?
Fight?

Either way I win.

Ok, so by your logic, you being in the faster 'Mech and running past the enemy to cap is okay. But OP's avoiding you? What? You're in the faster 'Mech, you can run circles around him; but you choose to run PAST him and cap? And HE's avoiding YOU? He doesn't even know you're there until he gets the "Friendly base is being captured" warning. Hell, if you run ECM he probably won't even see you! (which is fine, got nothing against ECM)

Nightcrept, on 21 April 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

If I am in one of my lights and I know the other team is mostly larger mechs I will cap immediately.

If that makes you angry then good. Hopefully that makes you play worse.

If you walk your big stompy atlas over to stop me alone I will either kill you or run off and wait to see if you walk off again. If you stay put I will go help my team. If you move I will recap. Either way I get the win or at the least get a larger mech out of the fight.

It's called role warfare.

YES, it's called role warfare, as in LEARN YOUR ROLE. I drive a Dragon with 280XL, I can get around a map just fine, light 'Mechs are still more nimble and faster AS A RULE.

[Wintersdark]

Jazzbandit1313, on 21 April 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

""As I said above... So, my team has 4 lights and 4 assaults, and yours (in this ridiculously assaut heavy tourny weekend) has 5 assaults and 3 heavies (because who uses mediums anymore). You're seriously bitching that my team decided to win via cap rather than be butchered handily? If one team has a significant lack of tonnage, they have speed. It's their best option to win in that circumstance, and most people would rather win by cap than get rolled - particularly the ones in the lights that aren't going to get a lot of c-bills and xp from damage done."""
(quoting system bug? lol)


You're wrong there. Capping should only be used as a last ditch effort. Don't cap right away. What if the tanky team is bad? and cant aim for ****? you have a chance of killing them by damage. And if your spider takes a half an hour with a large laser you're the one that sucks here. Im saying that every mech in the game should at least try to fight. Ive seen some teams not take one shot and win by back capping.


I'm talking about the cap station pole thing whatever the hell it is.

You can't assume the tanky team is bad. You should never assume your opposition is bad. Thanks to Elo, they should be relatively on par with you.

Personally, I almost never see bad teams. It's extremely rare.

I should point out: I don't play lights, other than rarely a couple troll Spiders for ***** and giggles - but I never play them seriously. I'm a fairly dedicated fast heavy pilot most of the time.

So, if they enormously outweigh us, I damn well expect the fast mechs on our team to use our teams advantage to win, because quite frankly I like to win. I don't care how we win, I just want to win because I play to win. I expect my team mates to play to win as well.

I do understand your position - and I too dislike matches that are won or lost before a shot is fired when the match could have been great otherwise, but I know if I lose that way, it's my team's own fault. If the match was overly one sided with regards to tonnage, I'll respect that my opposition did what they needed to to win. And if we win that way? *shrugs* We won, it was quick. I'll just click launch again, comfortable in the knowledge that my w/l stats at least are a little bit better now.

[Nutlink]

I wish for an actual base with turrets and crap with an HQ that had to be taken. THAT would be much better, but until then....

All your base are belong to the Light Brigade.

[Trauglodyte]

I don't like it cause it is a tournament weekend and that just reduces the chances of you having a high point game and increasing your rankings. Its a lame tactic in any game but it is even worse when people are trying to compete.

[TOGSolid]

BOTA49, on 21 April 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I wish for an actual base with turrets and crap with an HQ that had to be taken. THAT would be much better, but until then....

All your base are belong to the Light Brigade.

It's apparently coming with Community Warfare but that's kinda the problem in general. We're in limbo right now because everything is hinging on a few specific updates. Community Warfare, UI 2.0, and who knows what we're getting in the engine update tentatively scheduled for May. Apparently it's pretty faptacular though.

Edited by TOGSolid, 21 April 2013 - 01:21 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra, on 21 April 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

I drive a Dragon with 280XL, I can get around a map just fine, light 'Mechs are still more nimble and faster AS A RULE.

Why would you ever drive a Dragon that goes less than 90?

[Dante Giuseppe Lassenerra]

Wintersdark, on 21 April 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

One on one, this is great.

However, if you're not playing against a bunch of low-elo scrubs, those assaults you're attacking will all (or at least most) be in line of sight of each other. You can get behind one, but the rest can see you. Circle him? Slow/stop behind him, prevent him from getting a shot at you? The others will ravage you when you do.

With HSR in, being a speedy light is meaningless if the others can see you, because they will hit you and you will die. It's sort of like the problem people had during the LRMpocalypse: If they stayed within LOS of each other, a fast mech could get close to one boat, but the others would destroy him.

Edit to add: In short, 4 lights vs. 4 assaults, where people stick together and play reasonably well on both sides? Those lights are going to die. And they are going to die fast.


I'll explain this, yet again as I assume you're new here given your small post count: The bases exist in Assault to act as a fail-safe. Without them, people would start the match in ECM lights/cicadas, and if things go poorly (or even if not) they'd just troll everyone by running off and hiding, and you'd never find them. Matches would regularly take 15 minutes each just because the last mechs would scatter just to troll the victors. This *WOULD* happen, we know it would, everyone who's ever gamed online knows it would. People do that sort of thing simply because they can, because it would **** people off.

What's worse? A game you win or lose quickly, and can get into another game immediately? Or one that locks your mech up for 15 minutes? I'd far rather the match end early so I can just jump into another mech, and not need to worry about my ride being locked up in a battle for 15.

I've been around since closed beta, thanks. And I've been playing Mechwarrior games since the 90's. I don't bother with the forums much.

I don't give a **** about ELO's or HSR or whatever. Skill. This game takes skill, and patience. That's what I care about.

Again, I've seen light pilots beat the crap out of assaults, and I'm not talking one on one. I've had a whole lance taken out by three ravens, I've had a whole TEAM get taken out by four Centurions. I don't mind, those players kicked *** and my team did our best. Boiling the game down to "Well I've got the smaller 'Mech so they'll kill me automatically" doesn't work. Hell, I've seen teammates who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with an LB10-X AC. There's no point in making excuses, it's a game, your skill level rises the more you play. Like, it's so damn simple: make a new gametype with no capping, just combat. Everyone will get better at the game.

Lefty Lucy, on 21 April 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Why would you ever drive a Dragon that goes less than 90?

*Shrug* I get around okay going 78.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 21 April 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

As above, it's as much trolling as demanding the low-weight team just stand around and get butchered.

I am really disturbed by the fact that there are people out there who actually expect light pilots to just stand still and die.

Do you want to kill my light? Then come and get me! That is my game. Why should I play yours and just get butchered?