198 replies to this topic

[Sephlock]

Target Rich, on 23 April 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

This is exactly what is done when you have major obvious problems that you are tired of hearing complaints about....

You radically change your customer response forum in such a manner that it looks like you are providing more "service" while eliminating any viable vehicle of critical response..

For Constructive discussion of MechWarrior® Online™

Yeah, its pretty obvious what their intention was in dispersing us.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Zylo, on 23 April 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Just use http://mwomercs.com/...-communication/ as a general discussion forum for now I guess.


The only serious problem I see with all the changes to the forum structure is that the game balance forum seems to be locked which prevents players from discussing game balance issues in the correct location.

While I appreciate that concept, it's buried at the bottom of the boards. As it should be, since it's suppose to be for jettisoned posts.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 April 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Esplodin]

Anyone who couldn't tell a troll thread in General just by reading the subject orr a few posts at most needs to turn in their Internet cards.

That being said, the issue was never about playerbased comunication but communication from PGI. I've seen this exact scenario happen at a dozen companies. Upper management makes a lot of mysterious changes, goes back and fourth about core policy issues and you get rumors. These roumers spread to the general worker population, and for whateveer reason management is being secrative they can't squash the rumer or the secret is out.

How does this get solved? The fix is not more communication or less. It is more QUALITY communication, wich is honestly a hard thing to pull off. I stopped reading ask the devs when 90% of the answers were evasive, or if poorly worded yes/no questions were chosen for an answer. The Creative director update might have contained a few nuggets, but those were already known due to the patch notes already released or a 50,000m view.

So if I were PGI:

1) Public bug tracker - we ARE beta testers right? How the frig are we suppose to test if we have no idea what the buglist looks like? I know if I have an issue I would look it up in the bug tracker on a dozen software titles. Granted, not all bugs shoould be published (think security, exploits), but this would give the community a sense of forward momentum.

2) Comms no less than weekly from the brass. What are the priorities? Struggles PGI is having? Suggestions from the community they accepted or rejected and WHY. 30min of time would be a small investment for huge return, as long as the discussion was quality and NOT the ask the devs type answers.

3) Announcements. Friggin use it for releasing info instead of depositing it all over the web. I should not have to follow several websites to find out the state of the game.

I honestly believe that PGI wants this game to be a success, as do most of the community. However, the disconnect between the player base and the decision layer seems way too huge from the outside looking in. Eventually people will get tired of not feeling like they are part of MWO, but instead feel like cash cows. Seen it happen to several MMOs (STO, LoTRO, etc), and I'd be sad to see that here.

[Carrioncrows]

I have no idea where the hell to hang out now.

[Binary Toast]

Roadbeer, on 23 April 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

You, no, I've seen you form a coherent argument for or against a topic.

But you can honestly say to me that the 30 "FIX THE BUGS" threads that actually didn't describe a single bug, were productive and deserved a home outside K Town? All the "PGI sucks" threads that were based off of ignorance and a lack of 30 seconds of time it would take to research the gripe... those deserve to be?

You can't be serious

A General Discussion forum, by it's nature, will be very unruly. One website I used to frequent used to have a second GD forum for less bile related matters.
The problem isn't that they're killing the forum with the highest traffic, but that there isn't a clear alternative to take its place. Then there's the valid point that to a newcomer, i.e. anyone joining past today, this is a confusing mess. The bitching threads will still exist, there will even be more of them, spread out further, because people will unknowingly make duplicate threads.

On the other hand, maybe we're looking at this the wrong way? You know all those little ISN coms blackout notices? They just hit our relay! The clans are here!
...not.

[Roadbeer]

Esplodin, on 23 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Anyone who couldn't tell a troll thread in General just by reading the subject orr a few posts at most needs to turn in their Internet cards.

That being said, the issue was never about playerbased comunication but communication from PGI. I've seen this exact scenario happen at a dozen companies. Upper management makes a lot of mysterious changes, goes back and fourth about core policy issues and you get rumors. These roumers spread to the general worker population, and for whateveer reason management is being secrative they can't squash the rumer or the secret is out.

How does this get solved? The fix is not more communication or less. It is more QUALITY communication, wich is honestly a hard thing to pull off. I stopped reading ask the devs when 90% of the answers were evasive, or if poorly worded yes/no questions were chosen for an answer. The Creative director update might have contained a few nuggets, but those were already known due to the patch notes already released or a 50,000m view.

So if I were PGI:

1) Public bug tracker - we ARE beta testers right? How the frig are we suppose to test if we have no idea what the buglist looks like? I know if I have an issue I would look it up in the bug tracker on a dozen software titles. Granted, not all bugs shoould be published (think security, exploits), but this would give the community a sense of forward momentum.

2) Comms no less than weekly from the brass. What are the priorities? Struggles PGI is having? Suggestions from the community they accepted or rejected and WHY. 30min of time would be a small investment for huge return, as long as the discussion was quality and NOT the ask the devs type answers.

3) Announcements. Friggin use it for releasing info instead of depositing it all over the web. I should not have to follow several websites to find out the state of the game.

I honestly believe that PGI wants this game to be a success, as do most of the community. However, the disconnect between the player base and the decision layer seems way too huge from the outside looking in. Eventually people will get tired of not feeling like they are part of MWO, but instead feel like cash cows. Seen it happen to several MMOs (STO, LoTRO, etc), and I'd be sad to see that here.

QFT

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Nice post Esp.

I agree quality communication trumps all. Wish we could see more of it.

See Road, we agree on something else.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 April 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Thuzel]

Roadbeer, on 23 April 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Oh Noes!

Now your self-serving, , narcissistic, QQ, PGI ATE MY BABY threads will have to be created where they belong...

http://mwomercs.com/...ic-discussions/

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Making it harder for people to post complaints and observations will not make them go away. It will only make them more vocal elsewhere.

[Sephlock]

Wrenchfarm, on 23 April 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Hard to see this as anything but an attempt to fragment the community and help mods further justify locking/deleting threads in the name of duplication and topic-inappropriate.

I would like to be more optimistic, but it's difficult. The past few weeks have been really rough on the game. I know I haven't been playing even with prem time ticking away. More than ever before it feels like the whole thing is sinking.

Wrenchfarm, on 23 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Oops, I guess there is always an excuse for locking threads now.

Victor Morson, on 23 April 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

I know why it was happening. The same way any angry mob starts: Someone is angry. They rant about something that you might remember, then someone steps in and goes "ME TOO!" Pretty soon a mild bug they're working on turns into the END OF THE GAME. Of course everyone wants to prevent the end of the game by immediately wanting to burn down it's creators (because you dislike a gun or something, usually).EDIT: Actually I think that clip sums up General Discussion entirely.

The state of missiles and them being left that way for an incredible stretch of time when they were fine to begin with is not some minor issue....

[Victor Morson]

Loler skates, on 23 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Are you insinuating I don't engage in rational and well thought out conversation?

I'm saying you started a thread to specifically fight with Garth.

Yet you lament the loss of General Discussion because of all the classy conversations going on there.

That is all.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Victor Morson, on 23 April 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

I'm saying you started a thread to specifically fight with Garth.

Yet you lament the loss of General Discussion because of all the classy conversations going on there.

That is all.

Wait, I thought every thread started was a fight with Garth? That's what it seemed like when he posted.

[Sephlock]

Well, at least they didn't fire tear gas canisters and start hitting us with bean bang rounds.

[jozkhan]

has any other game ever done this?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

jozkhan, on 23 April 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

has any other game ever done this?

Probably.

But I'd wager none of them had an IP like Mechwarrior.

[Sephlock]

Maybe we can get the volunteer mods on our side.

Edited by Sephlock, 23 April 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[JokerVictor]

I just... don't care anymore.

I had a lot invested in being constructive, helping, and seeing this game become the golden beacon of stompy robot awesomeness it deserved to be. Yeah I've raged and bitched and moaned and trolled the sh*t out of this place, but I felt like this game needed some harsh critics to keep things honest.

After months of unresolved issues (balance, bugs, lack of content, bugs, BUGS) I've slowly been losing patience. But I still wanted to be involved. It's Battletech, for f*ck's sake! And now... well. F*ck it.

Doesn't take a clairvoyant to see why this was done. This was one helluva power play PGI. Congrats, you demolished my will to play and/or give two sh*ts about your product.

Been fun gentlemen, but this a wrap for me.

[Sephlock]

JokerVictor, on 23 April 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I just... don't care anymore.

I had a lot invested in being constructive, helping, and seeing this game become the golden beacon of stompy robot awesomeness it deserved to be. Yeah I've raged and bitched and moaned and trolled the sh*t out of this place, but I felt like this game needed some harsh critics to keep things honest.

After months of unresolved issues (balance, bugs, lack of content, bugs, BUGS) I've slowly been losing patience. But I still wanted to be involved. It's Battletech, for f*ck's sake! And now... well. F*ck it.

Doesn't take a clairvoyant to see why this was done. This was one helluva power play PGI. Congrats, you demolished my will to play and/or give two sh*ts about your product.

Been fun gentlemen, but this a wrap for me.

[Voridan Atreides]

Me thinks i'ts the best thing ever to happen to our forums. The MODS are geniuses. So genius in fact, that the PLJ and Cult of the MODS is proud to make this a holiday! April 23rd will be remembered for a long time!! All hail Lockdown of GD day!

Edited by Voridan Atreides, 23 April 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I answered No.

They totally sundered any kind of open discussion. Yes yes yes, we can still talk, but only within the confines of their categories.
It feels very limiting and already has a ghost town feeling.
Mixed feelings though because it's nice everything is sorted, but it would be nice if there was something.... a little more open... like a "Thoughts" subforum or something

Heck!

Make a Blog division of the website where we can blog about crap. That's basically what General Discussion was anyways, one giant blog space. But it was nice to go into and banter between each other.

[Sephlock]

MoonUnitBeta, on 23 April 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

I answered No.

They totally sundered any kind of open discussion. Yes yes yes, we can still talk, but only within the confines of their categories.
It feels very limiting and already has a ghost town feeling.
Mixed feelings though because it's nice everything is sorted, but it would be nice if there was something.... a little more open... like a "Thoughts" subforum or something

Heck!

Make a Blog division of the website where we can blog about crap. That's basically what General Discussion was anyways, one giant blog space. But it was nice to go into and banter between each other.

"Everything is sorted"? They're sapir-whorfing us into the ground with the forum description and subforum descriptions.

Edited by Sephlock, 23 April 2013 - 04:40 PM.