85 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Rhent, on 23 April 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Seeing as the General forum is dead, lets talk about Mechs boating PPC's?

How about the PRO's and CON's of allowing 60 Alpha Strikes to certain Mechs (Stalker but not the but not Atlas) other Mechs?

Once light shuts them down with impunity.

[80Bit]

6PPC, 5PPC, these are feel good builds, not good builds. It feels good when you land a huge Alpha on a damaged mech and kill him in "one shot". You are then totally vulnerable for a significant amount of time. I have never once in any match found myself saying "Damn that 6 PPC stalker!"

Now 1xGauss +2xPPC/ERPPC is currently crazy effective. If balance changes are going to be made, they need to look at this setup, not the silly uber PPC boating. Lots of mechs can run this setup, you can actually shoot more than twice a minute, and 35 pinpoint damage out to extreme range is nothing to take lightly.

[Karl Streiger]

80Bit, on 24 April 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Now 1xGauss +2xPPC/ERPPC is currently crazy effective. If balance changes are going to be made, they need to look at this setup, not the silly uber PPC boating. Lots of mechs can run this setup, you can actually shoot more than twice a minute, and 35 pinpoint damage out to extreme range is nothing to take lightly.

The problem is that i run similar build since the end of august. And it was less common on the battlefield.
So i can tell you...its much more effective as it was before -even with the Gauss - Nerf.
Make stats like they were in CB and it is still a effective build...although it needs more discipline to use it.

Only thing how you can fix it is:
Hard Point Sizes (that it will vanish) - because the only mechs capable of using PPCs is the Hunchback P, the H, the Centurion AH, the K2 and the Awesome, and 2 the Highlander P and the Pretty Baby.

Or you just remove the chance to hit the same spot with an Alpha Strike.... however i still would keep using that loadout on my Atlas.

[Joseph Mallan]

Voidcrafter, on 24 April 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

The DEVs pointed few times, that this game is aiming toward the strategic thinking and thus the doubled armor and etc.
So the mechs aint supose to go down that fast you know?
The problem is that when there's a build that can two-shot anything from about 70-700m people fail to see a reason to play anything else.
And I, regretably, get them
But that results in a large number of exactly the same two-shotting everything builds, which pushes the game toward a faster-paced(and for obvious reasons - flamed for inballanced) game which is noted to not be inteded by it's creators.

I mean... If I was deeper in the TT and BattleTech(which I am not, but the rest of the sentance is still an issue for me), AND developer of this game it would never come to mind to me, that people will go nuts about boating and loading 3+ PPCs on a mech, or the fact that poptarding would be such of an issue...
I get that.
But still this does not make it neither inteded nor fun

Funny I have fun when I defeat the 6 PPC builds from my non PPC builds. You do know there is strategy involved in building a Mech that can 1-2 shot the enemy even if the DEVs don't want that? I want to kill my enemy as fast as I can(tactic). It reduces his ability to kill me. And I am playing the game that way even if it confounds teh DEVs to no end.

[Troutmonkey]

I can't run my Jenner anymore. Keep getting one hit by all the PPCs that have come out after the HSR update. PPC needs something to be done about it. Increase it by one slot and/or increasing the weapon cooldown could help.

[Karl Streiger]

Just decrease the velocity of PPCs and ballistics.... I'm used to slow moving projectiles...as long as they are faster as those PPCs from Mechwarrior 2....although the explosion was always nice

Edited by Karl Streiger, 24 April 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Atma Erebus]

Quote

Now 1xGauss +2xPPC/ERPPC is currently crazy effective. If balance changes are going to be made, they need to look at this setup, not the silly uber PPC boating. Lots of mechs can run this setup, you can actually shoot more than twice a minute, and 35 pinpoint damage out to extreme range is nothing to take lightly.

Playing with 8 last night it finally reached a point where the last few teams who aren't all this build and 3Ls were actually thanking each other after matches. Say what you like about weapon balance, the fact is that variety in builds has dropped to near zero in competitive groups. Formula is 5 or 6 Gauss/PPC Highlanders and Cataphracts with 2 or 3 lights/fast mediums mounting ECM and Streaks. Throw in one PPC Stalker if the group wants to spice it up.

If there are builds that are equally good, why is no one running them? If there aren't, isn't that a problem?


P.S. Props to the Steiner team we played last night that is still dropping with at least four atlases. Good to see some things go beyond min-max.

[Yokaiko]

Troutmonkey, on 24 April 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I can't run my Jenner anymore. Keep getting one hit by all the PPCs that have come out after the HSR update. PPC needs something to be done about it. Increase it by one slot and/or increasing the weapon cooldown could help.

I was running both my Cicadas and Jenners, I won a game against a bunch-a-friggin-ppc highlander with one leg. He couldn't do enough damage with me right in front of him.

Eitherway, if you are dying every game you may want to think about pathing, you are to exposed, or too agressive.

[Victor Morson]

80Bit, on 24 April 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Now 1xGauss +2xPPC/ERPPC is currently crazy effective. If balance changes are going to be made, they need to look at this setup, not the silly uber PPC boating. Lots of mechs can run this setup, you can actually shoot more than twice a minute, and 35 pinpoint damage out to extreme range is nothing to take lightly.

If they ever want to nerf this without breaking either weapon, they just need to make a slightly larger gap between travel velocities in the two weapons so you have different lead times.

All that's really needed to change this if they deem it needs fixing, but I'm fine with it as is. Gauss & PPC have always been Peanut Butter & Jelly.

[Jman5]

It's hard to say what will happen to the game when SRMs become an optimal brawling weapon again. Not only will they be scary up close, but it will invariably replace some of the mechs that were going PPC sniper before. So the quantity of snipers will go down simply because there are more choices.

[Little Nemo]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 23 April 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

I have to agree with OP.
Yesterday I played my 6 PPC Stalker for 2 games and I got 2 wins and 5 kills with over 350 dmg each...then I switched back to my brawler HGN bcuz it was like cheating .

350 is average. Certainly not good.

[DegeneratePervert]

I'm rather peeved that the Atlas hasn't had a variant to set itself apart by a great margin...

I want a hero atlas that can mount dual AC/20s... put those damn PPC boats in their place.

[Taemien]

MadCat02, on 24 April 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

There are many troll builds which handicap you . How is this any different from 4x uac, double ac20 , 6 srmsx3 or 5 lasers + 5 steaks ?

Its not.

But what confounds me is how bad the average forum goer is at this game. They have always complained about the gimpiest configs in the game (2x AC20, 6x SRM6, 4x ERPPC, 6x PPC, or any jump sniper). Here we have someone who got 350 dmg and they said they felt like they were cheating. When I can score double or triple that in a Jagermech with 2 Medium Lasers, 2 AC5s, and 2 SRM6s, or even with my 4x Med Laser, 2x LRM15 Catapult (even post nerf).

I don't typically carry high alphastrike configs, but I can effectively put down damage consistently at all ranges with most of my configs. So my numbers are usually higher than the rest of my team (except when I'm in a light mech, then its only half the time), and my opponents as well.

Boats suck. This community really needs to realize that.

[Ialti]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 23 April 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Since PGI has 6 PPC Stalker alphaed the general forum, clearly they approve of death star levels of destruction.

The power to destroy a planet is nothing when compared to the power of the Dark Side!

[Ialti]

Skinny Pete, on 24 April 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

350 is average. Certainly not good.

Had a game today where I kept trying to rack up damage, and for the life of me I couldn't. They kept dying on me!
By the end of the game I had 290dmg and 5 kills...

[BoydofZINJ]

The game has turned into the PPC Apocalypse of 2013

[Xizore]

Yokaiko, on 24 April 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

I was running both my Cicadas and Jenners, I won a game against a bunch-a-friggin-ppc highlander with one leg. He couldn't do enough damage with me right in front of him.

Eitherway, if you are dying every game you may want to think about pathing, you are to exposed, or too agressive.

100% with you on this one. If you are piloting a medium or light, then mobility and cover is your defense against multi-PPC. Where possible, try to sneak behind an enemy using PPC and then shoot them until they realize you are there.

[Zyllos]

Taemien, on 24 April 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

Its not.

But what confounds me is how bad the average forum goer is at this game. They have always complained about the gimpiest configs in the game (2x AC20, 6x SRM6, 4x ERPPC, 6x PPC, or any jump sniper). Here we have someone who got 350 dmg and they said they felt like they were cheating. When I can score double or triple that in a Jagermech with 2 Medium Lasers, 2 AC5s, and 2 SRM6s, or even with my 4x Med Laser, 2x LRM15 Catapult (even post nerf).

I don't typically carry high alphastrike configs, but I can effectively put down damage consistently at all ranges with most of my configs. So my numbers are usually higher than the rest of my team (except when I'm in a light mech, then its only half the time), and my opponents as well.

Boats suck. This community really needs to realize that.

Why does the 8man queues not reflect this then?

Edited by Zyllos, 24 April 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[Taemien]

Zyllos, on 24 April 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Why does the 8man queues not reflect this then?

Who says they are the best players? Just because someone is on VOIP, doesn't make them the best, just the best organized.
But I'm sure my methods would work on a larger scale. If a team is heavy on a specific range, then engage at the other range. If they are short such as AC20 and SRM6 boats, stay at range and pick them off. If they are long range, get up close and brawl with them one at a time. If they have a mix, stay at range as you should have enough range to overcome them.

[jakucha]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 23 April 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Since PGI has 6 PPC Stalker alphaed the general forum, clearly they approve of death star levels of destruction.

Nah, even Ekman commented on them being unintentionally overpowered at the moment.

Edited by jakucha, 24 April 2013 - 07:48 PM.