253 replies to this topic

[Kdogg788]

While I agree that an AC2 macro does not help AS MUCH as what some claim, the UAC5 is a different beast. Macroing this is a distinct advantage. I think the general focus is on the wrong weapon. That said, if anyone's got a macro for AutoHotKey, it's very much appreciated...

-k

[TexAce]

my personal opinion is that in a skill-based game your perfomance should only reflect your skill.

And macros are not reflecting skill. Skill is being able to move your fingers at an optimum speed to do the same the macro does. That's skill for me.

I can totally understand that by rules macros are legal, but I just don't like anything that it does not have anything to do with skill so I would like them being removed or prohibited.

Edited by TexAss, 26 April 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[silentD11]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Not at all. I'm advocating putting everyone on a level ground. If a macro is going to allow it, remove the macro ability from giving one player an edge (or ease) over another.

I'm all for doing it within the parameters of the game. If you have to use outside software to do something, then that is the crutch I am speaking of.

Ban mice with more than two buttons and with DPI on the fly changes as well. You get VASTLY more out of that than macros. I don't like that other peoples naga's have more buttons than my deathadder. It's a direct advantage, and if I don't have it than nobody can.

[Yokaiko]

TexAss, on 26 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

my personal opinion is that in a skill-based game your perfomance should only reflect your skill.

And macros are not reflecting skill. Skill is being able to move your fingers at a optimum speed to do the same the macro does. That's skill for me.

I can totally understand that by rules macros are legal, but I just dont like anything that hasn't to do anything with skill so I would like them being removed or prohibited.

macros are reflecting that PGI can't make chain fire, group fire or double rate fire work AS ADEVERTISED through the client UI.

Since all client actions are server validated its basically impossible to gain any un-intended advantage, it IS possible to get the intended performance though.

So if you can't be arsed to download freeware, I have next to no symapthy, because I can do the same thing on my mouse without using its native macro functions.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yokaiko, on 26 April 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

macros are reflecting that PGI can't make chain fire, group fire or double rate fire work AS ADEVERTISED through the client UI.

Since all client actions are server validated its basically impossible to gain any un-intended advantage, it IS possible to get the intended performance though.

So if you can't be arsed to download freeware, I have next to no symapthy, because I can do the same thing on my mouse without using its native macro functions.

Well duh, but is it ok?

[Joseph Mallan]

TexAss, on 26 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

my personal opinion is that in a skill-based game your perfomance should only reflect your skill.

And macros are not reflecting skill. Skill is being able to move your fingers at an optimum speed to do the same the macro does. That's skill for me.

I can totally understand that by rules macros are legal, but I just don't like anything that it does not have anything to do with skill so I would like them being removed or prohibited.

That isn't skill its reflex.

[Galenit]

Thontor, on 26 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

This would happen if they were group fired as well. Probably faster if they were group fired.

Using a macro to properly chain fire them does not increase their damage per second. In fact, it makes it easier for whoever is being shot at to spread the damage out by twisting and turning. Meaning its actually less effective than group firing.

Its about groupfiring. (with uac5)
Fire them exactly every 1.1 seconds to prevent jam and have max rof and dps is something you cant do with you hands.
If you fire them in less then 1.1 sec. you will have jams, firing them over 1.1 sec. will reduce your rof, both reduces your dps

Edit, sorry does not see the op you answering were about ac2. This is about uac5 ....

Edited by Galenit, 26 April 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[silentD11]

Galenit, on 26 April 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Its about groupfiring.
Fire them exactly every 1.1 seconds to prevent jam and have max rof and dps is something you cant do with you hands.
If you fire them in less then 1.1 sec. you will have jams, firing them over 1.1 sec. will reduce your rof, both reduces your dps

Yes you can. Run a metronome in the background and you will never jam again!

[Yokaiko]

Galenit, on 26 April 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Its about groupfiring.
Fire them exactly every 1.1 seconds to prevent jam and have max rof and dps is something you cant do with you hands.
If you fire them in less then 1.1 sec. you will have jams, firing them over 1.1 sec. will reduce your rof, both reduces your dps

Incorrect, max ROF is at double rate, and in my trip UAC muppet I have stomped a number of macroers because while they were firing 1.1, I was firing at double, and I cored them out before I went yellow armor. I can also group fire pretty damn close to that line without crossing double rate.

All it does is make it idoit proof, its DOES NOT increase DPS

[Kdogg788]

Thontor, on 26 April 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I was referring to AC/2s in the post you quoted, because that's what the post I quoted was referring to.

As far as UAC/5s go, with practice, anyone can get the rate of fire down to be able to fire them on cooldown without risk of jamming. Macros don't do anything you can't do without them, therefore they aren't cheating IMO.

I'd like to see someone get the fire down right on point like a macro can in the heat of battle while maneuvering their mech and monitoring several other systems including heat and relative damage. Macro is the way to go, no ifs ands or buts, whether it's on a mouse or as a third party software script.

-k

[Yokaiko]

Kdogg788, on 26 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

I'd like to see someone get the fire down right on point like a macro can in the heat of battle while maneuvering their mech and monitoring several other systems including heat and relative damage. Macro is the way to go, no ifs ands or buts, whether it's on a mouse or as a third party software script.

-k

I don't try, if its that hot I'm WFO full double rate. I have a macro, I rarely actually load it.

[silentD11]

Kdogg788, on 26 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

I'd like to see someone get the fire down right on point like a macro can in the heat of battle while maneuvering their mech and monitoring several other systems including heat and relative damage. Macro is the way to go, no ifs ands or buts, whether it's on a mouse or as a third party software script.

-k

http://metronomeapp.com/ problem solved.

[Kdogg788]

silentD11, on 26 April 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

http://metronomeapp.com/ problem solved.

Convienent but my iPhone battery drains quick enough without using it as a metronome for a long gameplay session. It still introduces human error and the slight losses in accuracy that the rythmic clicking motion can produce when going for longer shots.

-k

[silentD11]

Kdogg788, on 26 April 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Convienent but my iPhone battery drains quick enough without using it as a metronome for a long gameplay session. It still introduces human error and the slight losses in accuracy that the rythmic clicking motion can produce when going for longer shots.

-k

http://store.apple.c...-cable?fnode=45 battery problem fixed.

[Mackman]

TexAss, on 26 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

my personal opinion is that in a skill-based game your perfomance should only reflect your skill.

And macros are not reflecting skill. Skill is being able to move your fingers at an optimum speed to do the same the macro does. That's skill for me.

I can totally understand that by rules macros are legal, but I just don't like anything that it does not have anything to do with skill so I would like them being removed or prohibited.

What level of skill, and what kind of skill? How much should the pilot have to fight against his own mech, as well as enemy mechs?

That's the question you need to ask, instead of just talking about how macro's decrease skill.

By your definition, the game would require more "skill" if you also had to hit a button each time you wanted your mech to take a step, right? Because skill is "being able to move your fingers at an optimum speed", right? And it kinda would, but that kind of skill isn't intuitive, isn't fun, and doesn't make sense in the context of a Mech Combat game. Do you understand where I'm coming from here?

Now, that's an extreme example: But it definitely illustrates the point that there are some things that you should NOT have to be skilled at. There are some skills that are out of place or un-intuitive or unnecessary in a game like this. Such is the case for this simple macro. You're in an enormous bipedal war machine, and you're telling me that your enormous bipedal war machine can't accomplish a simple task like automate weapon firing rates?

This macro is something an actual MechWarrior would be using. It's something that the game itself should have a function for. There's no sense in having a known optimum rate of fire, but being unwilling to automate it.

[TexAce]

Kdogg788, on 26 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

I'd like to see someone get the fire down right on point like a macro can in the heat of battle while maneuvering their mech and monitoring several other systems including heat and relative damage. Macro is the way to go, no ifs ands or buts, whether it's on a mouse or as a third party software script.

-k

thats the skill that I'm talking about because if macros were prohibited that skill would make people stand out from others and they could be called "good" players without bad feelings.

I really can't say someone is a good player when he uses macros to achieve his goal.

Reflex and skill are two different things, who ever confuses them has no idea what he is talking about.

Mackman, on 26 April 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

What level of skill, and what kind of skill? How much should the pilot have to fight against his own mech, as well as enemy mechs?

That's the question you need to ask, instead of just talking about how macro's decrease skill.

By your definition, the game would require more "skill" if you also had to hit a button each time you wanted your mech to take a step, right? Because skill is "being able to move your fingers at an optimum speed", right? And it kinda would, but that kind of skill isn't intuitive, isn't fun, and doesn't make sense in the context of a Mech Combat game. Do you understand where I'm coming from here?

Now, that's an extreme example: But it definitely illustrates the point that there are some things that you should NOT have to be skilled at. There are some skills that are out of place or un-intuitive or unnecessary in a game like this. Such is the case for this simple macro. You're in an enormous bipedal war machine, and you're telling me that your enormous bipedal war machine can't accomplish a simple task like automate weapon firing rates?

This macro is something an actual MechWarrior would be using. It's something that the game itself should have a function for. There's no sense in having a known optimum rate of fire, but being unwilling to automate it.

this argument stinks because there isnt much in this game you can do than move your mech and shoot. It's what has been given to us, our tools to win a match and compare each other.
if one of the things gets trivialized, you have no skill based game. you have a boring game.

Next someone will make a macro where he has to just click ONCE and the mech will shoot with keeping the heat in mind, reducing RoF to manage heat, automatically stop before overheeting, waiting to cooldown and repeat. It's possible now, using a macro. No one did it yet, but someone will. you just need a calculator. --> boring game, very boring game...

Edited by TexAss, 26 April 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

TexAss, on 26 April 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

thats the skill that I'm talking about because if macros were prohibited that skill would make people stand out from others and they could be called "good" players without bad feelings.

I really can't say someone is a good player when he uses macros to achieve his goal.

Reflex and skill are two different things, who ever confuses them has no idea what he is talking about.

Pushing buttons in a successive order is a reflex skill.You can train reflexes just as you can learn Algebra. What some here are calling skill is nothing but reflex memory.

[silentD11]

TexAss, on 26 April 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

thats the skill that I'm talking about because if macros were prohibited that skill would make people stand out from others and they could be called "good" players without bad feelings.

I really can't say someone is a good player when he uses macros to achieve his goal.

Reflex and skill are two different things, who ever confuses them has no idea what he is talking about.

I can't say someone is a good player when they have more than two buttons on their mouse. It makes it far too easy to have multiple weapon groups. For that matter I can't say someone is good if they can change the DPI on their mouse. Makes it far to easy to tweak the DPI for different zooms and weapons, takes no skill. I could go on and on here. But multiple buttons and DPI are vastly better than macros.

Also I can rapid fire the AC2's without a macro and the UAC5's without jamming them and without a macro as well. It doesn't take that much effort. It's just more fun to do it with a macro. Hold down that button and scream "dakka dakka dakka" into voice comms. It's also easier to tell someone who asks "how do I fire the AC2's so fast" to "use a macro" than bother to explain the weapon groupings. And since everyone can macro, and not everyone has enough buttons on the mouse they use... the macro is actually the fair and honest thing, the multi button mouse the real advantage most people don't have.

[Mackman]

TexAss, on 26 April 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

thats the skill that I'm talking about because if macros were prohibited that skill would make people stand out from others and they could be called "good" players without bad feelings.

I really can't say someone is a good player when he uses macros to achieve his goal.

Reflex and skill are two different things, who ever confuses them has no idea what he is talking about.



this argument stinks because there isnt much in this game you can do than move your mech and shoot. It's what has been given to us, our tools to win a match and compare each other.
if one of the things gets trivialized, you have no skill based game. you have a boring game.

Here's a question for you: What would you say if, from the very beginning, PGI had included a more robust, more functional chain-fire capability, which allowed you to set the rate and speed with which it chain-fired. Would you still have a problem with it?

Also, I could turn your argument right around and go back to my first example: "Having the mech take steps automatically is trivializing the game, put manual stepping in!"

Weapon firing rates is basic stuff: It shouldn't take relentless muscle-memory just to achieve optimal firing rates. PGI needs to either implement macro functionality into the game itself, or implement a much more robust chain-firing system.

[TexAce]

Mackman, on 26 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Here's a question for you: What would you say if, from the very beginning, PGI had included a more robust, more functional chain-fire capability, which allowed you to set the rate and speed with which it chain-fired. Would you still have a problem with it?

Also, I could turn your argument right around and go back to my first example: "Having the mech take steps automatically is trivializing the game, put manual stepping in!"

Weapon firing rates is basic stuff: It shouldn't take relentless muscle-memory just to achieve optimal firing rates. PGI needs to either implement macro functionality into the game itself, or implement a much more robust chain-firing system.

Wow great next someone will make a macro where he has to just click ONCE and the mech will shoot with keeping the heat in mind, reducing RoF to manage heat, automatically stop before overheating, waiting to cooldown and repeat. It's possible now, using a macro. No one did it yet, but someone will. you just need a calculator. --> boring game, very boring game...

Edited by TexAss, 26 April 2013 - 07:44 AM.