253 replies to this topic

[Inconspicuous]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Here's the facts:
As quoted from PGI rules:

First, let's look at the limitation on this: "3rd party hardware vendors", so the people using 3rd party scripting SOFTWARE not associated with their specific hardware, they are in the wrong.

Secondly, there "...or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default...", being able to rapid fire multiple AC/2's without having to worry about the normal aiming interference of multiple mouse clicks, or the affect of manually sequentialy clicking multiple buttons on the keyboard seems to be something that "...other players would not have by default..." because not all players have keyboards, or mice capable of supporting macros.

So there you go. Unless you people are willing to pay for macro capable keyboards and mice for the rest of the community so that these would be things that "...other players would have by default...", you're in the wrong.

Period.

That's the fact.

Understand it, live with it, and stop cheating.

I like how you completely disregard the point that it can be done just as easily without gaming equipment or macros...

I suppose if you acknowledge this FACT then your argument really falls apart.

[Plavis]

http://en.wikipedia....hWarrior_Online

[color=#000000]negotiated the license back from [/color]Microsoft Check
[color=#000000]under development by [/color]Piranha Games[color=#000000] for the [/color]Microsoft Windows[color=#000000] platform. Check[/color]
Microsoft[color="#1122cc"] Sidewinder [/color]Gaming Mouse Check

Whos is the 3rd party?

[Dimento Graven]

Plavis, on 28 April 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I see you are a lengendary Founder, so how come you have 150dollars to spend in a game thats is free open beta and not have 60 dollars to spend on a gaming mouse? but instead come and complain in here.

I have Logitech G19 keyboard and a CMStorm Inferno gaming mouse, each with their own macro capabilities.

I'm not wrong, I'm just of a generation that was taught READING COMPREHENSION as a basic skill, and reading and then UNDERSTANDING everything posted tells me that setting up macros to turn multiple AC/2's into a high power, long range, machine gun with no ill affect torwards aim, and something that is not actually available generally, because not everyone has hardware capable of macros, tells me that PGI will, once they get off their fannies, also rule that it's cheating as well.

[Inconspicuous]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

I have Logitech G19 keyboard and a CMStorm Inferno gaming mouse, each with their own macro capabilities.

I'm not wrong, I'm just of a generation that was taught READING COMPREHENSION as a basic skill, and reading and then UNDERSTANDING everything posted tells me that setting up macros to turn multiple AC/2's into a high power, long range, machine gun with no ill affect torwards aim, and something that is not actually available generally, because not everyone has hardware capable of macros, tells me that PGI will, once they get off their fannies, also rule that it's cheating as well.

Don't need them, can do it all without the macro. (Reading is Fundamental)

Next argument please...

[Straften]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

I have Logitech G19 keyboard and a CMStorm Inferno gaming mouse, each with their own macro capabilities.

I'm not wrong, I'm just of a generation that was taught READING COMPREHENSION as a basic skill, and reading and then UNDERSTANDING everything posted tells me that setting up macros to turn multiple AC/2's into a high power, long range, machine gun with no ill affect torwards aim, and something that is not actually available generally, because not everyone has hardware capable of macros, tells me that PGI will, once they get off their fannies, also rule that it's cheating as well.

You are wrong.

You are also a presumptuous clown.

[Plavis]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

I have Logitech G19 keyboard and a CMStorm Inferno gaming mouse, each with their own macro capabilities.

I'm not wrong, I'm just of a generation that was taught READING COMPREHENSION as a basic skill, and reading and then UNDERSTANDING everything posted tells me that setting up macros to turn multiple AC/2's into a high power, long range, machine gun with no ill affect torwards aim, and something that is not actually available generally, because not everyone has hardware capable of macros, tells me that PGI will, once they get off their fannies, also rule that it's cheating as well.

you dint even bother to read the hole topic, and the topic is about macros, and are they allowed, yet you keep posting only seeing your own reality.

[Dimento Graven]

Inconspicuous, on 28 April 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I like how you completely disregard the point that it can be done just as easily without gaming equipment or macros...

I suppose if you acknowledge this FACT then your argument really falls apart.

I don't ignore that fact, I know it can be done without a macro the problem is, it CAN NOT be done without a macro AND maintain pinpoint aim, AND/OR full ability to pilot.

The macro allows you to do this with ZERO trade off that someone else NOT using the macro has to suffer.

If having manually clicking 6 mouse buttons, in rapid succession continuously did not affect aim, or, if having to press 6 keys in rapid succession on your keyboard did not affect your ability to pilot, I'd have ZERO problem with this macro.

The problem is the macro REMOVES the limitations that are naturally there when the same process is done manually.

What you people are trying to argue is that the 3rd party macro software is generally available, the problem is PGI has limited macro usage to 3rd party HARDWARE vendors. So if your using software not tied to a vendor of your mouse or keyboard, that's cheating.

Next you're trying to argue since you can do it manually, it's ok, only you ignore the fact that it CAN NOT be done manually and maintain the same accuracy and piloting ability, which in turn gives undo tactical advantage to a person using the macro vs. someone NOT using the macro.

Lastly you seem to be trying to imply that the macro makes no difference, and my response to that is, if it makes no difference, WHY USE IT?

Inconspicuous, on 28 April 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Don't need them, can do it all without the macro. (Reading is Fundamental)

Next argument please...

Yes reading is fundamental, guess what, READING COMPREHENSION is also too.

You can't do it and maintain the same accuracy or piloting ability without it. Hense it provides a non-generally available tactical advantage and is therefore cheating.

[Syllogy]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

I have Logitech G19 keyboard and a CMStorm Inferno gaming mouse, each with their own macro capabilities.

I'm not wrong, I'm just of a generation that was taught READING COMPREHENSION as a basic skill, and reading and then UNDERSTANDING everything posted tells me that setting up macros to turn multiple AC/2's into a high power, long range, machine gun with no ill affect torwards aim, and something that is not actually available generally, because not everyone has hardware capable of macros, tells me that PGI will, once they get off their fannies, also rule that it's cheating as well.

If you had reading comprehension, you would have read this in PGI's Official ruling about macros:

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

And Incidentally, it can be done manually. It's done by having a 4-6 weapons each on their own weapon group, and then firing those groups in rapid succession.

Remember: Reading is FUNdamental.

Edited by Syllogy, 28 April 2013 - 04:13 PM.

[Plavis]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I don't ignore that fact, I know it can be done without a macro the problem is, it CAN NOT be done without a macro AND maintain pinpoint aim, AND/OR full ability to pilot.

The macro allows you to do this with ZERO trade off that someone else NOT using the macro has to suffer.

If having manually clicking 6 mouse buttons, in rapid succession continuously did not affect aim, or, if having to press 6 keys in rapid succession on your keyboard did not affect your ability to pilot, I'd have ZERO problem with this macro.

The problem is the macro REMOVES the limitations that are naturally there when the same process is done manually.

What you people are trying to argue is that the 3rd party macro software is generally available, the problem is PGI has limited macro usage to 3rd party HARDWARE vendors. So if your using software not tied to a vendor of your mouse or keyboard, that's cheating.

Next you're trying to argue since you can do it manually, it's ok, only you ignore the fact that it CAN NOT be done manually and maintain the same accuracy and piloting ability, which in turn gives undo tactical advantage to a person using the macro vs. someone NOT using the macro.

Lastly you seem to be trying to imply that the macro makes no difference, and my response to that is, if it makes no difference, WHY USE IT?


Yes reading is fundamental, guess what, READING COMPREHENSION is also too.

You can't do it and maintain the same accuracy or piloting ability without it. Hense it provides a non-generally available tactical advantage and is therefore cheating.

like i said befor, you should read befor posting,

ingame chain fire set to 2 wepon gruops in chainfire do the same effect and only pushing 2 button, but you are stubrun and dont even bother to read but you do bother to post nonsence.

Edited by Plavis, 28 April 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Plavis, on 28 April 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

you dint even bother to read the hole topic, and the topic is about macros, and are they allowed, yet you keep posting only seeing your own reality.

Again, you're showing your lack of reading comprehension. The use of macros is limited by PGI's own rules. The affect the macros should have are also limited by PGI's own rules.

This particular macro, when created and maintained by non-3rd party hardware vendors, and due to its blatant tactical advantage of allowing rapid fire AC's without affects on aim or piloting, EXCEEDS the stated limitations in PGI's own rules.

It's not MY reality it's PGI's.

[Syllogy]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Again, you're showing your lack of reading comprehension. The use of macros is limited by PGI's own rules. The affect the macros should have are also limited by PGI's own rules.

This particular macro, when created and maintained by non-3rd party hardware vendors, and due to its blatant tactical advantage of allowing rapid fire AC's without affects on aim or piloting, EXCEEDS the stated limitations in PGI's own rules.

It's not MY reality it's PGI's.

Please explain the tactical advantage. In detail.

[Dimento Graven]

Syllogy, on 28 April 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

If you had reading comprehension, you would have read this in PGI's Official ruling about macros:

Syllogy, on 28 April 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

Please explain the tactical advantage. In detail.

Actually I've already quoted that, so... Guess you missed it. Key parts:

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

The macros linked previously are not provided by 3rd party hardware vendors.
The macro actually assists in aiming because manually clicking 6 buttons in rapid succession DOES DETRIMENT AIM, and usage of the macro removes that problem It also eliminates the affect on being able to pilot your mech rapidly pressing 6 keys on your keyboard would have on your ability to pilot your mech.
The overall affect of that provides a tactical advantage other players without a mouse or keyboard that supports mechs would not have.

Seems to me, this fits PGI's 'text book' definition of CHEATING.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 28 April 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Plavis]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Again, you're showing your lack of reading comprehension. The use of macros is limited by PGI's own rules. The affect the macros should have are also limited by PGI's own rules.

This particular macro, when created and maintained by non-3rd party hardware vendors, and due to its blatant tactical advantage of allowing rapid fire AC's without affects on aim or piloting, EXCEEDS the stated limitations in PGI's own rules.

It's not MY reality it's PGI's.

since you dont like to read what was alredy posted let me help you



http://en.wikipedia....hWarrior_Online

[color=#959595][color=#000000][/color][color=#959595]negotiated the license back from [/color][color=#959595][/color][/color]Microsoft[color=#959595] Check[/color]
[color=#959595][color=#000000][/color][color=#959595]under development by [/color][color=#959595][/color][/color]Piranha Games[color=#959595][color=#000000][/color][color=#959595] for the [/color][color=#959595][/color][/color]Microsoft Windows[color=#959595][color=#000000][/color][color=#959595] platform. Check[/color][color=#959595][/color][/color]
Microsoft[color="#1122cc"] Sidewinder [/color]Gaming Mouse[color=#959595] Check[/color]

• Microsoft Wireless Laser Desktop 7000
  
• Microsoft Habu Laser Gaming Mouse
  
• Microsoft IntelliMouse 1.0
  
• Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer 4.0
  
• Microsoft IntelliMouse con IntelliEye
  
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• Microsoft IntelliMouse USB
  
• Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000
  
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• Microsoft Optical Mouse
  
• Microsoft Optical Mouse by Starck
  
• Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer 2.0
  
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• Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 1.0
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 2.0
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 5000
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 4000
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop Elite
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop Pro 2.0
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 1.0
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 1.0
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 3000
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 5000
  
• Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Desktop 7000
  
• Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 3000
  
• Microsoft Arc Mouse
  
• Microsoft Explorer Mini Mouse
  
• Microsoft Explorer Mouse

whos is the 3rd party?

[Inconspicuous]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Yes reading is fundamental, guess what, READING COMPREHENSION is also too.

You can't do it and maintain the same accuracy or piloting ability without it. Hense it provides a non-generally available tactical advantage and is therefore cheating.

Yes, you absolutely can - takes about 30 seconds of practice in the training grounds and then it's simple to do...

I will post this yet again in the hopes you will try it out before saying it does not work.


You can do it fine without the macro...

von Pilsner, on 25 April 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

AC2's don't jam so he's not avoiding any mechanics.
I tried using the number keys to start the super chaining process by pressing 3-6 quickly then holding down the 'fire selected' button (which has all AC2s in the same group). The rapid fire works this way (manually) as well as by using a macro. It's a little tricky to get the timing correct but after a few tries it was quite easy...

Soooooo, I would say that people can fire faster then chainfire manually if desired.

Here is a pic that shows manual rapid-fire in action (no Fraps, sorry) you can see that I did not quite wait enough for group 6 but you still get the crazy rapid-fire effect of the AC2's.





If you could not manually start the rapid-fire process I would be inclined to agree with you. Since the same effect can be had with no macro (and it's quite easy to do - try it in the testing grounds) I would have to say that this is OK within the posted TOS.

Since it can be done easily, accurately, and reliably without a macro it's in-line with the TOS. Go to the training grounds and try it out.

NOTE: You only fan the keys once, then you just hold fire selected weapon to keep the rapid fire going so it's not like you have to do KB gymnastics or have super dexterity to perform this feat.

Edited by Inconspicuous, 28 April 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Syllogy]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Actually I've already quoted that, so... Guess you missed it. Key parts:


The macros linked previously are not provided by 3rd party hardware vendors.
The macro actually assists in aiming because manually clicking 6 buttons in rapid succession DOES DETRIMENT AIM, and usage of the macro removes that problem It also eliminates the affect on being able to pilot your mech rapidly pressing 6 keys on your keyboard would have on your ability to pilot your mech.
The overall affect of that provides a tactical advantage other players without a mouse or keyboard that supports mechs would not have.

Seems to me, this fits PGI's 'text book' definition of CHEATING.

It doesn't assist aiming. The fact that it does not disrupt it is irrelevant. I can do the same thing manually without disrupting aim.

I have that macro programmed into Logitech and Razer Synapse. Both of these are 3rd party hardware vendors. Neither program is considered cheating.

Let me highlight that again:

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

Tactical Assistance is the keyword that you are focusing on. Use that reading comprehension to good effect here:

Quote

Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

PGI is talking about software that modifies the game itself to give tactical assistance to the user.

Sorry, but macros don't do that. Aimbots, Wallhacks, ESP, Magic Crosshairs, these all give the user Tactical Assistance.

Pressing buttons is not Tactical Assistance.

What you are talking about is on par with saying that I'm not allowed to use my Razer Naga because it has buttons on the side, or I'm not allowed to use my monitor because it's a 30 inch and I can see small targets better.

Edited by Syllogy, 28 April 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Inconspicuous, on 28 April 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Yes, you absolutely can - takes about 30 seconds of practice in the training grounds and then it's simple to do...

I will post this yet again in the hopes you will try it out before saying it does not work.

You can do it fine without the macro...

Since it can be done easily, accurately, and reliably without a macro it's in-line with the TOS. Go to the training grounds and try it out.

NOTE: You only fan the keys once, then you just hold fire selected weapon to keep the rapid fire going so it's not like you have to do KB gymnastics or have super dexterity to perform this feat.

You're so full of crap you're like a blackhole of excrement. If it really makes no difference to utilize the macro, why go through the effort of setting one up in the first place? Or why take the risk of downloading 3rd party software that may or may not affect your system in ways you can't predict?

The fact is it makes using multiple AC/2's incredibly easy, and extremely lethal over thousands of meters.

I seriously doubt that there are that many human beings that can maintain clicking multiple mouse buttons located all in different spots on their mouse at the 'correct rate' consistantly without causing movement of the aim. All 5 fingers are connect to the hand, as each one moves they affect the hand as well, and that affect on the hand moves the mouse causing you to drift.

Likewise with the keyboard, you either have to take one hand off the mouse to do it, or you have to take your hand off the WASD keys to do it, and its affect on piloting is definite.

Again, you can't say it doesn't matter because it supposedly has no affect on gameplay and then fight to the death to keep it around.

The fact is, unless you were born with three hands, without that macro, you'd have some serious issues with aiming and or piloting and consistant rates of fire.

[Syllogy]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

You're so full of crap you're like a blackhole of excrement. If it really makes no difference to utilize the macro, why go through the effort of setting one up in the first place? Or why take the risk of downloading 3rd party software that may or may not affect your system in ways you can't predict?

The fact is it makes using multiple AC/2's incredibly easy, and extremely lethal over thousands of meters.

I seriously doubt that there are that many human beings that can maintain clicking multiple mouse buttons located all in different spots on their mouse at the 'correct rate' consistantly without causing movement of the aim. All 5 fingers are connect to the hand, as each one moves they affect the hand as well, and that affect on the hand moves the mouse causing you to drift.

Likewise with the keyboard, you either have to take one hand off the mouse to do it, or you have to take your hand off the WASD keys to do it, and its affect on piloting is definite.

Again, you can't say it doesn't matter because it supposedly has no affect on gameplay and then fight to the death to keep it around.

The fact is, unless you were born with three hands, without that macro, you'd have some serious issues with aiming and or piloting and consistant rates of fire.

ROFLMAO.

You use your left hand to tap the Weapon Group keys on the keyboard, genius. No mouse buttons involved.

[Inconspicuous]

Dimento Graven, on 28 April 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

You're so full of crap you're like a blackhole of excrement. If it really makes no difference to utilize the macro, why go through the effort of setting one up in the first place? Or why take the risk of downloading 3rd party software that may or may not affect your system in ways you can't predict?

The fact is it makes using multiple AC/2's incredibly easy, and extremely lethal over thousands of meters.

I seriously doubt that there are that many human beings that can maintain clicking multiple mouse buttons located all in different spots on their mouse at the 'correct rate' consistantly without causing movement of the aim. All 5 fingers are connect to the hand, as each one moves they affect the hand as well, and that affect on the hand moves the mouse causing you to drift.

Likewise with the keyboard, you either have to take one hand off the mouse to do it, or you have to take your hand off the WASD keys to do it, and its affect on piloting is definite.

Again, you can't say it doesn't matter because it supposedly has no affect on gameplay and then fight to the death to keep it around.

The fact is, unless you were born with three hands, without that macro, you'd have some serious issues with aiming and or piloting and consistant rates of fire.

You just make **** up and argue that...

The instructions include holding one mouse button yet you turn that into "maintain clicking multiple mouse buttons located all in different spots on their mouse at the 'correct rate' consistantly without causing movement of the aim".

Feel free to continue your crusade, I think everyone here knows who is full of crap and who is not...

[Dimento Graven]

Plavis, on 28 April 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

since you dont like to read what was alredy posted let me help you



http://en.wikipedia....hWarrior_Online
blah blah, long list of irrelvancy

Just so you know, PGI has LICENSED the Mechwarrior intellectual property, that does not make PGI Microsoft.

In otherwords: PGI != Microsoft.

Secondly, THIRD PARTY in this case ALSO include Microsoft in that the mouse and/or keyboard you have YOU DID NOT PURCHASE FROM PGI. IT WAS NOT MANUFACTURED by PGI.

HENCE, it's third party.

So yeah, if you utilize Microsoft hardware and software to get an undo tactical advantage not generally available to everyone else in MWO, it STILL qualifies as cheating.

[Syllogy]

3rd Party Hardware Vendor Software is Legal, haus.

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

Edited by Syllogy, 28 April 2013 - 04:34 PM.