314 replies to this topic

[Purplefluffybunny]

Kaijin, on 29 April 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

From a PR point of view, in most cases it'd be a serious blunder. Volunteer Mods need to be able to draw a line between who they are as beta testers and players, and who they are as moderators, and the community needs to know the line is there as well. That line doesn't exist on these Forums.

Hmmm I get what you are saying but yeah, I view myself as able to make these distinctions. But maybe I would not even give me such a position!

On topic; I think the situation is recoverable. It is possible for an unofficial 'central' MWO forum to appear but given what I witnessed after the TS3 fiasco (seems to be a pattern here with respects to an attitude towards communication systems that bring us all together), I think many would fight for such a role and we would end up with a more fragmented community. There is a lot to be gained by having large traffic flows and being in control of a 'central' area for the MWO community and a lot of stake holders who may fight for such a position!

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 29 April 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[Kaijin]

Purplefluffybunny, on 29 April 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Hmmm I get what you are saying but yeah, I view myself as able to make these distinctions. But maybe I would not even give me such a position!

Volunteer Mods do what they're told by their IGP Managers, as they should if they want to keep their volunteer postitions. I'm not blaming the volunteers for not having a line.

Edited by Kaijin, 29 April 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[VoltarDark]

Hello folks;

Losing our general discussion forum was a very sad day for me.

It is the first time a company is trying to lose touch with its customers so bluntly.

I was reading GD every days and i did post a bit too.

Now i come to mwo a lot less... Is like they want to make mwo fade from my mind.

Me and my friends where trying to help PGI to success. We feel that help is no more wanted.

Already, It make us play less and talk about the game a lot less.

My last advice : Fire the person who had that «great» idea.... and quickly.

Voltar Dark

[Purplefluffybunny]

VoltarDark, on 29 April 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

[...] My last advice : Fire the person who had that «great» idea.... and quickly. [...]

If I am correct in my belief, it is going to be very hard to fire Russ.

EDIT: I just want to add that this topic is being discussed in several threads right now. Whats more this illustrates a failure in the aims and reasons of the said forum change, particularly given that these threads were started by staff members in different sub-forums.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 29 April 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Purplefluffybunny, on 29 April 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

If I am correct in my belief, it is going to be very hard to fire Russ.

EDIT: I just want to add that this topic is being discussed in several threads right now. Whats more this illustrates a failure in the aims and reasons of the said forum change, particularly given that these threads were started by staff members in different sub-forums.

lol they want it to dissapear but they make the mistake of bringing it up

[Sephlock]

Just bring back General Discussion... its so hard to just run into my buddies on the forums now.



Just those little moments when I'd check General Discussion and see "oh hey, there's a post by Lefty Lucy!" or "Oh look, Mechwarrior Buddah posted!"

[ferranis]

Its easy, mwo lost all bookmarks in my browser because of this change. I just come back casualy to check this and another thread about the forum restructure - thats all what is left from my hourly visits pre-change.

If you dont want a forum, the next time just say so.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

ferranis, on 29 April 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Its easy, mwo lost all bookmarks in my browser because of this change. I just come back casualy to check this and another thread about the forum restructure - thats all what is left from my hourly visits pre-change.

If you dont want a forum, the next time just say so.

Or just delete the forum and go all facebook/twitter. Which seems to be the case anyways

[Bobdolemite]

I have read a lot of the discussion in this thread, and I understand why the choice was made. I even agree with it in some respects. Structure will allow intelligent people to find the appropriate sub forum where they can voice their opinion/concern/idea which makes it easier to moderate and for critical information to make it to devs..... but

This I fear, like many great ideas; seems better on paper and in thought than in practice. I used to frequent the forums daily, make posts, join in wide arrays of discussion, but after the recent change to structure the forums are a ghost town, I have stopped checking daily because people are still (in most cases) debating the same post they were several days ago (or theres just no additional new conversation) and I have generally stopped posting altogether.

Now while ill agree that the old general discussion lacked direction and was a PITA to moderate, this is no way different than every other game forum that has ever existed. General discussion areas are always chaotic, but IMO they are the place to go to take the 'Pulse" of a game.

For new games I want to play and old games I am considering picking up again, general discussion is ALWAYS the first place I go to see how they are doing. A healthy and even combative GD forum is a symptom of a thriving game. People are invested in their time and care enough to spend time forum warrioring.

What I see now is more akin to what I encounter with dead games, or ones with a low disorganized player base. A few well organized well spoken individuals a few trolls and then... crickets. This is worrying because this games player base is much larger than that, it simply indicates that most people have stopped coming to the forums.

The change well intended or not is driving people into clan forums, reddit, you name it. Anywhere but MWO forums. This may be the case of leading a horse to water and finding it wont drink, might want to start thinking about bringing the water bottle back, we know the horse liked that =)

Edited by Bobdolemite, 29 April 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bobdolemite, on 29 April 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Now while ill agree that the old general discussion lacked direction and was a PITA to moderate, this is no different than every other game forum that has ever existed. General discussion areas are always chaotic, but IMO they are the place to go to take the 'Pulse" of a game.

Hence the problem

[jubbly]

Forums still suck without a General disc.

[Sephlock]

The changes to the forum, from the players' perspective, then the dev's perspective:

[Jestun]

They just need to stop seeing this as us revolting against them and see it instead as a lesson to be learned.

[TKSax]

As I said in the other thread, this still makes the game to hard to talk about. What if I want to talk about several different things in one post or just talk about general game stuff, where do those posts go. People talking about the game is a good thing weather it is positive or negative, at least they are talking about it, now without General Discussion there is no one place to talk about the game.

[Dishevel]

Purplefluffybunny, on 29 April 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

EDIT: I just want to add that this topic is being discussed in several threads right now. Whats more this illustrates a failure in the aims and reasons of the said forum change, particularly given that these threads were started by staff members in different sub-forums.

Actually I think this is exactly what they wanted out of the change.

[Roadbeer]

Purplefluffybunny, on 29 April 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

EDIT: I just want to add that this topic is being discussed in several threads right now. Whats more this illustrates a failure in the aims and reasons of the said forum change, particularly given that these threads were started by staff members in different sub-forums.

Actually, the two threads in this forum alone are discussing two different things.
This thread is announcing the changes to the forum
The other one is a polling of tweaks to the new format.

It's not IGPs fault if the player-base can't keep on topic in the appropriate thread.

Edited by Roadbeer, 30 April 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[Jestun]

Referendum has been closed already, so I'll reply in one of the other threads on the same subject.

Roadbeer, on 30 April 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

You mean this one?
http://mwomercs.com/...ctivity-hotfix/
that's pinned in the forum for the most recent patch
http://mwomercs.com/...feedback-12214/

In the feedback forum, not the patch notes forum.

The hotfix required a patch to be downloaded to the client. If that happens I expect the patch notes for the patch to be in the patch notes forum. This is not an unreasonable expectation.

Quote

You're asking to have it both ways. You say "post your feedback in the appropriate forum" but then lament that you don't have General Discussion, to discuss your feedback on an item.

So the complaint isn't' that there are 88 sub-forums, but that there isn't 89 sub-forums?

The complaint is that they removed general discussion which was used to generally discuss the game as well as provide a sense of community.

I approve of subforums, but not the number which we have here.

• Rules & Guidelines - Fair enough. Not many threads but I have no objection to a forum for this.
  
• Frequently Asked Questions - An entire forum for one thread. Remove it, sticky it in General Discussion.
  
• Help a Player - A new players section for basic questions and advice is also fine.
  
• Guides & Strategies - I'd scrap all of these sub-forums. Have a sticky linking to the "best" guides, perhaps a second sticky relating to feedback on that thread to aid in keeping the sticky up to date.
  
• Developers' Corner - I'd keep the Ask the devs forum (I'm not sold on how worthwhile the whole Ask the devs thing is, but if it's being done I think it should have its own forum) and merge the other two forums.
  
• Announcements - Keep the RP stuff & rename the forum. Move the rest to the merged thread in Dev's corner.
  
• General Discussions - This should do exactly what it says on the tin. A place to generally discuss the game, for discussions which are not limited to the focus of any other forum.
  
• Barracks - Move the "tactics" threads (based on the forum description, I've not read through the threads) into something like the guides forum where it is more suited. The rest of the "look at my score!" stuff can stay there I guess, I don't see where else it would fit (I'd be perfectly happy if it were removed personally, but have no real problem with it). The LFG part could perhaps be a subforum of new players or general - although I hope UI 2.0 will mean it can be removed.
  
• Factions & Merc Corps - Looks like these are mainly used for recruitment so I guess split by faction makes sense.
  
• Patch Feedback - Move up a level - a Support & Feedback forum with some subforums. The contents of the Patch Feedback forum is moved to this new, higher-level Support & Feedback forum. Turn Known Issues into a single thread called Resolved Issues within the Support & Feedback forum. Regarding Patch Notes I'd personally rather see a sticky in the Support & Feedback forum and a subforum called Historic Patch Notes containing the older threads, but I don't mind keeping the current Patch Notes subforum (as long as it contains all patch notes, including all hotfixes).
  
• Website & Forum - Fine, although discussions on the forum are spread over official threads on quite a few subforums now so some merging would be a good idea.
  
• Support Workarounds - Turn this into a single thread in the Support & Feedback forum called something like Existing Issues & Workarounds
  
• Hardware & Accessories - Fine as it is.
  
• Archive - Fine as it is, though possibly not necessary.
  
• Community Hyperpulse Generator - Look at the number of threads in there? I don't go in there to be perfectly honest but I am fairly confident the few threads it has need to be split into that many forums & subforums. Stick the fan stuff together and the BattleTech stuff together (perhaps losing the BT subforums? I don't use it so not sure what effect that would have - I suggest asking the people who do use that forum).
  
• Off Topic - I'm not sure what the difference is between these three to be honest. I'd say merge them but people who use them more often may disagree. Again I defer to the people who post in that forum.
  
• The subforums in General Discussion - Merge news with Dev's Corner (and/or sticky's in general discussion, depending on what the news is and how important it is that people see it). Scrap ComStar Focus Group / Hot Topic Heatsink and just have official threads in the appropriate place (either in general with stickys in whichever subforums they may cover, or a post in one of the subforums with a sticky in general linking to it - for a while at least). Gameplay Balance can never be discussed in isolation from Mechs & Loadouts and/or Maps & Modes. I can understand there being a Mechs forum, possibly with subforums for weight classes, and a loadouts forum is generally a good idea (one which people share loadouts in - I'd have it as a subforum of the new player forum rather than general discussion myself though). It might be worth keeping Maps for the duration of the beta for feedback, but scrapping it on launch. Move suggestions to the Support & Feedback forum and scrap the rest.

The other thing is forum moderation. Learn when to merge threads, when to close them and when to delete them.

Edited by Jestun, 30 April 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Jestun, on 30 April 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Referendum has been closed already, so I'll reply in one of the other threads on the same subject.

In the feedback forum, not the patch notes forum.

The hotfix required a patch to be downloaded to the client. If that happens I expect the patch notes for the patch to be in the patch notes forum. This is not an unreasonable expectation.

Um, those links I gave you are to the Patch Feedback forum which is for the current patch (what is the use for having feedback on previous patches?) which is the MAIN FORUM in the Patch section, you actually need to click on that forum to get to the 'patch notes' sub forum you reference (which is for previous patches), it's structured the same way it has ALWAYS been, the notes on the hot fix were pinned in the feedback section for the current patch, exactly WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. You actually have to look at it to click on the 'patch notes' forum sub-forum,(which is for older patches). Again, these are structured the same way they have always been.

As for the rest, I agree and disagree with you, but it seems that everyone has pretty much adapted and are posting the same way they always have, maybe a bit more topical than they used to (not a bad thing), and a bit less non-specific OMGZRAGEZORZ than they used to (also, not a bad thing).

[Jestun]

Roadbeer, on 30 April 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Um, those links I gave you are to the Patch Feedback forum which is for the current patch (what is the use for having feedback on previous patches?) which is the MAIN FORUM in the Patch section, you actually need to click on that forum to get to the 'patch notes' sub forum you reference (which is for previous patches), it's structured the same way it has ALWAYS been, the notes on the hot fix were pinned in the feedback section for the current patch, exactly WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. You actually have to look at it to click on the 'patch notes' forum sub-forum,(which is for older patches). Again, these are structured the same way they have always been.

As for the rest, I agree and disagree with you, but it seems that everyone has pretty much adapted and are posting the same way they always have, maybe a bit more topical than they used to (not a bad thing), and a bit less non-specific OMGZRAGEZORZ than they used to (also, not a bad thing).

Tell me, what is the point of a patch notes forum, if not to hold the patch notes?

It doesn't matter how many times you tell me it's in a different forum, it does not make my post any less valid. The patch notes go in the patch notes forum, or you scrap the patch notes forum (or, as per my previous post, rename it to Historic Patch Notes and always keep the latest set in the Patch Feedback forum).

:edit:

You are in no way required to access the Patch Feedback forum to get to the Patch Notes subforum.

Go to http://mwomercs.com/forums/, scroll down.

Edited by Jestun, 30 April 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Jestun, on 30 April 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Tell me, what is the point of a patch notes forum, if not to hold the patch notes?

Go just one level up, and that's the forum that holds the CURRENT PATCH, same as it's always been. That's actually the forum level it takes you to when you click on "Patch Notes" in the launcher, or for the main page.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

Edited by Roadbeer, 30 April 2013 - 08:49 AM.