314 replies to this topic

[Naja]

Well that was pretty disappointing guys, I gotta say.

Was the referendum perfect? Nope. But it was a step in the right direction. Some of the responses were pretty counter productive. Acting pretentious towards the devs doesn't help, only hinders.

They asked for our consideration on a topic. Granted it wasn't the one we wanted to talk about, but hey, at least they asked this time. This is a good thing. We should be encouraging this kinda of dev behavior, not smacking it on the nose because the topic wasn't exactly what you wanted.

Lift up your game guys, we're not going to get anywhere if both sides don't act reasonably.

Now before you accuse me of white knighting, I am now and always have been for the return of general disc, and am quite happy to call the devs on something that I think smells fishy.

[Purplefluffybunny]

I am for a general discussion area as much as I am for sub-forums with a more specific focus.

[Jacob Dieffenbach]

Naja, on 30 April 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Well that was pretty disappointing guys, I gotta say.

Was the referendum perfect? Nope. But it was a step in the right direction. Some of the responses were pretty counter productive. Acting pretentious towards the devs doesn't help, only hinders.

They asked for our consideration on a topic. Granted it wasn't the one we wanted to talk about, but hey, at least they asked this time. This is a good thing. We should be encouraging this kinda of dev behavior, not smacking it on the nose because the topic wasn't exactly what you wanted.

Lift up your game guys, we're not going to get anywhere if both sides don't act reasonably.

Now before you accuse me of white knighting, I am now and always have been for the return of general disc, and am quite happy to call the devs on something that I think smells fishy.

Just because they're asking questions doesn't mean they care what we think.

It's the equivalent of a politician declaring martial law, then when there are massive protests, he says "Fine, I'll ask you before I do stuff. I plan on using my newfound power to open up a palace dedicated to me. What color should the carpets in the throne room be?"

...yes, technically there are questions being asked, and the public is being consulted... but not on something they should be consulted about, and no effort is being made to take back the previous unconsulted decision. We shouldn't be any less critical of the terrible choice that started the whole mess, or the complete inability of those in power to discuss it, just because they're asking questions about future terrible messes.

Edited by Jacob Dieffenbach, 30 April 2013 - 07:14 PM.

[Naja]

Jacob Dieffenbach, on 30 April 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Just because they're asking questions doesn't mean they care what we think.

It's the equivalent of a politician declaring martial law, then when there are massive protests, he says "Fine, I'll ask you before I do stuff. I plan on using my newfound power to open up a palace dedicated to me. What color should the carpets in the throne room be?"

...yes, technically there are questions being asked, and the public is being consulted... but not on something they should be consulted about, and no effort is being made to take back the previous unconsulted decision. We shouldn't be any less critical of the terrible choice that started the whole mess, or the complete inability of those in power to discuss it, just because they're asking questions about future terrible messes.

Sigh, I wasn't suggesting that what they did was good, I said it was a step in the right direction and should be encouraged.

And I never said don't be critical, I was referring to the snide and poorly thought out retaliation posts that offered nothing of use to the discussion.

Seriously, did you even read what I posted?

[Purplefluffybunny]

It is all in the pronouns again.

[Dishevel]

Naja, on 30 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Sigh, I wasn't suggesting that what they did was good, I said it was a step in the right direction and should be encouraged.

And I never said don't be critical, I was referring to the snide and poorly thought out retaliation posts that offered nothing of use to the discussion.

Seriously, did you even read what I posted?

I am not going to attack you here.
So read and understand this is not an attack.
The referendum was not a step in the right direction it was a march over our faces.
Let me explain.
24 Hours before a major change to the forums they post. They have full information on the forums and they knew exactly how many were likely to see it.
They kill GD and divide the heck out of the forums and the community explodes.
They state that they are listening.
I followed that thread did you? That thread was 85% bring back general, 10% stop QQing about it, and 5% other.
After they were done with Days of Meetings while listening to what we had to say they came up with the referendum.
Shut down our conversation about bringing back general with a bunch of questions asking our opinions on changes they cared not about one way or the other.
Everyone of those questions they were cool with either way.
It was designed only to shut us up. The referendum was one giant "I do not care what you wanted. Here play with this shiny toy you idiots."
and it is working.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Naja, on 30 April 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Now before you accuse me of white knighting, I am now and always have been for the return of general disc, and am quite happy to call the devs on something that I think smells fishy.

Funny I hear that a lot...

Naja, on 30 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Sigh, I wasn't suggesting that what they did was good, I said it was a step in the right direction and should be encouraged.

And I never said don't be critical, I was referring to the snide and poorly thought out retaliation posts that offered nothing of use to the discussion.

Seriously, did you even read what I posted?

So by your thought the third person thread, where they were asking how that should be implimented (yet at the same time cramming it down our throats whether we wanted it or not) is a good thimh? I mean they were asking questions, so it must be.

[Purplefluffybunny]

GalaxyBluestar, on 30 April 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

disregarding all the emotional outpouring and vilification of this experiment i still have to conclude it is still a very bad mess. Warning this is very very….very long and takes some dedicated reading as i {ahem attempt} to reason what’s happening.
[...]
TL;DR: tough you need to read the post, ciao.

Although I have chopped your quote (I am sure the mods will thank me), I did read it all. I agree with most of your points, as you most probably already know. Thanks for taking the time to put this together! I share your thought that we as a player base should be treated more like a community than a knowledge engine and that they need to provide systems to facilitate community development.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 30 April 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[Dishevel]

Purplefluffybunny, on 30 April 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I share your thought that we as a player base should be treated more like a community than a knowledge engine and that they need to provide systems to facilitate community development.

But they will not. They have made this abundantly clear.
They are not interested in this community. They are not interested in our views. They have some team somewhere running numbers and looking at Google search data and have come to the conclusion that the community aspect of these forums is more of a hindrance to where they see themselves going than a help. Period.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Dishevel, on 30 April 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

But they will not. They have made this abundantly clear.
They are not interested in this community. They are not interested in our views. They have some team somewhere running numbers and looking at Google search data and have come to the conclusion that the community aspect of these forums is more of a hindrance to where they see themselves going than a help. Period.

Facebook integration for the social functions that are to come with the UI 2.0? Other third party services for the community aspect?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Dishevel, on 30 April 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

But they will not. They have made this abundantly clear.
They are not interested in this community. They are not interested in our views. They have some team somewhere running numbers and looking at Google search data and have come to the conclusion that the community aspect of these forums is more of a hindrance to where they see themselves going than a help. Period.

and facebook data mining, it looks like they should chuck the forums and go full Facebook/twitter. I think theyre the only ones they look to for info

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gregory Owen, on 30 April 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

alright then niko,

give the community a poll asking if we'd like our "general discussion" forum back, there is more than enough community feedback asking for it.

I second this, I wanna see you do that right there!
But we know you wont lol

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gregory Owen, on 30 April 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

not most, All. I cannot find another game that has done this.
as far as I can tell it is some sort of PR recovery mode they have gone into, to prevent new players from seeing what the community is upset with all in 1 place, now you have to venture into each topic to see exactly what the current concerns are.

how can they consider 236 votes a legitimate poll of user wants, yet blow off the 700+ that voted against 3rd person, or the 500 plus that voted ecm needed massive changes.

Unless theres like 500 forumites and this game is in worse shape than we think

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gregory Owen, on 30 April 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

i'm going to be polite and just ask you to leave, you're not contributing and just trolling. the rest of us are atleast posting stuff that is furthering the conversation.

Just report the troll.
This is pretty much why all I see is "This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Roadbeer. View it anyway?"

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 30 April 2013 - 09:05 PM.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 April 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

I second this, I wanna see you do that right there!
But we know you wont lol

If you count up the number of people just asking for a poll on this, I believe it may be close to some of those numbers in the so called democratic referendum. Bryan, this includes users with low post counts too so it must be something that matters.

[Lindonius]

Edited by Lindonius, 30 April 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lindonius, on 30 April 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

this reminds me of:

[and zero]

The number of votes in the "referendum" was pathetic. As is the number of posts/participants in the various official threads on the matter. It is a joke. You know why? Most of us have just plain given up. And half those who do still have it in them to waste energy and time giving feedback to a company that doesnt seem to listen cant even find the damn threads.

It is sad. Pgi, you really ought to consider making a change before you really run this ship into the ground here. Many of us still have hope despite all the ****. Try truly listening to your core player group: your potential biggest supporters/advocates. You might be surprised how far a little bit of respect goes (really now? Naming a collection of like 10 specific sub forums general discussion? Yea that fooled me for about 5 seconds). Try not being so damn stubborn. People love when a company admits they made a mistake and then fixes it WITH the customers feedback/help. Hell, just try machine guns at 1 dps, admit ecm was poorly done, buff the flamer, not like the game is balanced anyway. Making mistakes, experimenting is what beta and beta testers are for. Ignoring the player base and claiming everything is "working as intended" is not. Etc.

Most of the players in the handfull of units i have talked to are unhappy. They feel ignored, disrespected, like their opinions are worthless to pgi. The following sentiment is common: "if this wasnt mechwarrior..." "if this was any other game we would already have quit.". You want "were playing because its MW and its awesome!" Not "were only playing because its MW and we wish it was awesome". So please. Listen to your players. We want the game to succeed as much or more than you. And there are other, better ways to go about that. So please, think about it

(Posted from phone, will edit later)

Edited by and zero, 01 May 2013 - 12:53 AM.

[Hekalite]

The current forum structure is bad enough that most days I just can't be bothered to weed my way through all the sub forums. Is that what you want? To drive away people who are willing to give feedback?

[DeaconW]

Gregory Owen, on 30 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

there is a name for this, it's called pulling a "Smedley"

John Smedley was head developer on Star was galaxies, he made drastic changes to the game and refused to revert them, he refused to listen to the million+ strong community and continued down the road of his "Vision" which led to it's demise.

https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=591

this is exactly what is happening with MWO, they are so confident what they are doing is correct, they will ignore the players and continue down this slope till it self-destructs.

That is a great link! This quote is EXACTLY what I believe the MWO team needs to read and heed:

"What would Smedley do if he could go back and give it another try? His first regret is launching the game before the space combat system was done, and his second is that SOE didn't talk and listen to its players more. "We would have encouraged more in-depth discussion with the community surrounding the idea of any game modifications," he said."