64 replies to this topic

[Kyle Polulak]

This thread will serve as a consolidated outlet for all comments, suggestions, discussions, and responses surrounding our recent update with regards to the changes to the control systems.

In an effort to reduce clutter on the forums, and to make it easier for us to compile feedback for our developers, please help us contain feedback to this thread.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

This is going to be a boring thread. You guys should do more threads about broken items to get ideas how to fix them.

I nominate BAP and AMS.

But to add something to this, I think more control options are good. I wish we'd see some more graphics options too.

[Kurshuk]

I love it. Maybe this will be enough to get the wife to try MWO for real.

The reasons I love it:
It's more in line with other fps experiences helping smooth over the more complex controls our contraptions can take advantage of.

You can turn it off. This is important. Having stuff to help newbies is important, but the ability to shut it off to use the mech to the fullest should remain. In this case it does and I'm very happy because of it.

I like the F key especially and the throttle decay arm lock piece.


TLDR: It adds accessibility without removing the complexity for those who desire it. And all without needing to push an unpopular 3rd person view.

Kurshuk

Edited by Kurshuk, 12 March 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[Zeus X]

Decay throttling? Shaking my head.

Arm locking? I guess aiming with your arms is to difficult for the kiddies.

Leg centering should have been put in way before now.

I guess adapting to way a game plays is just to hard for for all the kiddies out there.

Please have this crap turned off by default.

This is sad and I can't believe resources are being put into this.

Edited by DCM Zeus, 12 March 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Ashnod]

DCM Zeus, on 12 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Decay throttling? Shaking my head.

Arm locking? I guess aiming with your arms is to difficult for the kiddies.

Leg centering should have been put in way before now.

I guess adapting to way a game plays is just to hard for for all the kiddies out there.

Please have this crap turned off by default.

This is sad and I can't believe resources are being put into this.

qft

[Eddrick]

I had an idea for allowing arms to stay locked at the same point. While letting you move the torso and keep arms pointed at the same spot. So you can fove your torso around to spead damage and still shot the same spot on the target.

Thankyou for thinking of it before I even mentiond the idea. It's basicly the reverse of the moving arms but torso stays in place we have now.

[Jabilo]

Feed back.

Turn of arm lock by default. It is not helping new players to hide functionality from the start. Learning how to use unlocked reticles is crucial when different weapons are on the arms and torso.

Make arm lock a toggle, not press to activate. At the very least have the option to make it a toggle an option in the game options page.

Thank you

[Deathlike]

Some of these controls are needed... mainly because I drive really poorly without them (well, mainly the Centre to legs option).

I'm only amused that "Centre" is using a more classic spelling than "Center".

These controls are a bit more classic (well, the speed % bits), so usefulness is hard to argue against if you were used to the older games.

[Deathlike]

Jabilo, on 12 March 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Feed back.

Turn of arm lock by default. It is not helping new players to hide functionality from the start. Learning how to use unlocked reticles is crucial when different weapons are on the arms and torso.

Make arm lock a toggle, not press to activate. At the very least have the option to make it a toggle an option in the game options page.

Thank you

Agreed

[ranger233]

DCM Zeus, on 12 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Decay throttling? Shaking my head.

Arm locking? I guess aiming with your arms is to difficult for the kiddies.

Leg centering should have been put in way before now.

I guess adapting to way a game plays is just to hard for for all the kiddies out there.

Please have this crap turned off by default.

This is sad and I can't believe resources are being put into this.

You are very correct!!! Lets Get this thing fixed Just a little bit better before you start on this kiddie stuff! I can not believe that you guys are even thinking about this stuff right now when there are other things that need addressed very badly.

[Super Mono]

Quote

The new settings are both enabled by default,

Please don't enable this by default for everyone when they patch the game, it will just serve to be irritating to people that are already used to the current control options.

[River Walker]

ranger233, on 12 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

You are very correct!!! Lets Get this thing fixed Just a little bit better before you start on this kiddie stuff! I can not believe that you guys are even thinking about this stuff right now when there are other things that need addressed very badly.

Its call making the game friendly to the new player so PGI can build a paying user bases to pay the bill and keep working on it.
No moola means no MWO,all this stuff should have been done before it went open beta.
I am one of the guys that pointed this out the first day I got in to closed beta.
It all so mean I can finely use my Saitek X52 which has been siting on my desk cover in dust.

[mekabuser]

off by default pleeeeze.

[MuKen]

I really like the direction these changes are going on, especially the improved joystick support which is long overdue. I think it should be continued further in a number of ways.

1) Every single button should have an option for toggle versus hold.

Don't assume you know what is most reasonable, let players choose for themselves. For example, some of us (me included) would prefer hold for advanced zoom, finding toggling needlessly annoying. Others may not. Don't assume the option is unneeded for anything, no matter how silly it may seem. Even for really 'obvious' stuff like shooting. You might think "why would anybody ever want toggle for shooting a weapon group?" But then you have weapons like TAG where some people would like to toggle it.

2) Every single axis for which it is possible, should have a choice between 'absolute', 'relative', and 'preset buttons'.

This is in the same vein, don't assume you know what the player wants, let him choose. By 'absolute' versus 'relative', I mean for example some players will want a joystick axis for torso twisting where holding in a direction moves it like it does now. Others will want the torso to snap to the same angle of whatever that axis on the joystick is at (i.e. when it is centered, the torso is centered, when it is all the way to the left, the torso turns all the way to the left).

By preset buttons, I mean the same thing you are implementing for throttle. Give an option to set buttons for "10% turn rate" all the way up to "100% turn rate", for people who plan to continue using keyboards and thus won't have any other way to take advantage of analog turning. Ditto for torso angles, let us set buttons for "center", "turn all the way left", "turn 50% right" etc. And for every other axis that it is possible to do so.

3) Give an option to either center the camera to the torso reticle, or to the arm reticle.

Personally, I find the idea that your screen centers on the arms (as it does now) to be counterintuitive and a little disorienting. I'd rather it stay centered to where the torso is aiming. Others will disagree, so let us choose. This is mainly an important factor when using "free look with the arms" mode.

4) When "free looking" with the arms, give an option to map some controller axises that still control the torso.

This is for people who plan to go dual-joystick or joystick+mouse. In default mode, let both control the same reticle (i.e. how it works right now). Then when you go into freelook mode, let us set it up so the left stick still controls the torso reticle, but the right stick or mouse now controls the arm reticle. Of course, this should be in combination with allowing us to set free-look to either a held button or a toggle button, and setting the axises for both reticles to be either absolute or relative.

Edited by MuKen, 12 March 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[The Cheese]

There's not really any downside to this as long as we don't get our configurations changed without us knowing. That would suck eggs.

Being on by default for new players is probably a good thing, as it'll make the learning curve that much gentler. They should however be actively told that they can change it. A proper tutorial mission would go a long way in this regard.

It opens the game up to a wider audience without being something that people are forced to use to be competitive.

Edited by The Cheese, 12 March 2013 - 11:58 PM.

[Victor Morson]

DCM Zeus, on 12 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Arm locking? I guess aiming with your arms is to difficult for the kiddies.

Some designs out there would GREATLY benefit from this on a toggle to positively align the arm and torso guns. I think making it default will just hurt newbies in the long run, though.

[Mr 144]

Excellent work PGI. I had thought that analog turning was a long way off...quite the pleasant suprise Throwing in Center legs to Torso finally was a perfect compliment to this. I've already modified my x52 Throttle for the new changes...left handed throttle and analog steering...hooray!!!

Spoiler

Throttle Decay is a tad silly in my opinion, but hey, it's an option so I can't complain. Pre-set throttle percentages for keyboard players is nice however.

Locking Arms:
I assume this was done for new players mainly...making a more traditional FPS control scheme. As long as you're catering to the 'simpler' control players...how about an option for the 'advanced' control scheme players fanatics?

Any Chance we'll ever get the ability to seperate the reticules and map each to a seperate analog axis? This would enable ways to protect damage parts better, and help SIM pit players searching for complexity. It shouldn't be all too difficult to implement, as the mechanics for free-look could be used. There's already boxes for torso mapping in the client as well. The camera would still follow the torso reticule. All that's really needed is Arm mapping while in free-look that can be set independantly of torso mapping. It's an option most people wouldn't use, but as long as you're re-vamping controls, it's a nice time to sneak it in. Back in Closed Beta I suggested this, and a Dev comment on it being a good idea.

Thanx a bunch for the unexpected control work!
Mr 144

Edited by Mr 144, 13 March 2013 - 01:22 AM.

[Booran]

The more options the merrier! I like the expansion on customizability to one's controls to make the mechs handle in the most comfortable way possible.
As for the specific changes/additions, I can't relate to them just yet, need to try them out in the game a few times first. But they seem to be a logical step.

[VXJaeger]

I like them, but I'd like to set them off by default.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Meh.

Simplifying the controls is only going to hurt new players in the long run. The annoyance of having to go reset them back to what we have now will be a minor inconvenience.