157 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

Do what I do, join the poptards with a 3ERPPC Jenner.

[MechWarrior849305]

hammerreborn, on 07 May 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Do what I do, join the poptards with a 3ERPPC Jenner.

Huh? Do you have armor at all?

[hammerreborn]

DuoAngel, on 07 May 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Huh? Do you have armor at all?

NOPE!

225 XL engine, 1 DHS, endo steel and technically ferro, and 2 JJs.

Unless i get bum rushed by a light I can usually dish out 300 or so damage poptarting.

I figure, since any torso hit instantly gets cored anyways by a majority of the cheese builds, I might as well not have any armor at all, lol


Edit: I just 2 shot a 3l, lol.

Edited by hammerreborn, 07 May 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

hammerreborn, on 07 May 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

NOPE!

225 XL engine, 1 DHS, endo steel and technically ferro, and 2 JJs.

Unless i get bum rushed by a light I can usually dish out 300 or so damage poptarting.

I figure, since any torso hit instantly gets cored anyways by a majority of the cheese builds, I might as well not have any armor at all, lol


Edit: I just 2 shot a 3l, lol.

It's sad that that works as well as it seems too. I've seen a few lights/meds sporting ERPPC's and doing a good job with the current meta.

Miss you in the new BAP > ECM threads by the way. Guess PGI still thinks ECM is fine huh?

[MustrumRidcully]

Zylo, on 07 May 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I think it's clear that most who use PPC's are against raising heat but of course they don't want their favorite playstyle nerfed. When the complaints about PPC's being OP and PPC's being too hot are about equal then the value should be about right and the devs can move on to adjusting other weapons as needed to increase weapon diversity. I think the old heat values will work to return PPC's to a balanced state as their projectile speed is now faster and maps are larger so these advantages still make the PPC worth taking in some cases.

Just for the record... My favorite "play style" currently is Dual AC/20, and it used to be 3 SRM6 + AC/20 + 2 MLs. Or 2 SRM6s and 2-4 MLs.
I love brawling. And I am not opposed to using powerful weapons.

To copy the writing style of another fellow poster:

Nerf heat capacity, buff heat dissipation, problem solved.

But in my tradition, I have to add:
- For certain problems, additional tweaks might be required, batteries not included.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 07 May 2013 - 10:50 PM.

[hammerreborn]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 May 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

It's sad that that works as well as it seems too. I've seen a few lights/meds sporting ERPPC's and doing a good job with the current meta.

Miss you in the new BAP > ECM threads by the way. Guess PGI still thinks ECM is fine huh?

I've posted in plenty of them. Don't have the patience to post in the 15 different threads about it in the mechs and loadouts, metagame, upcoming features, announcements, gameplay balance and suggestion forums.

Getting rid of GD was an interesting concept, but it's being handled poorly. Mods need to get on condensing all the damn topics into one.

And frankly, I'd argue that the BAP change was a buff to ECM mechs and mechs completely reliant on streaks (namely the streakapult) and in special circumstances LRM boats (they can still fire at enemy mechs even with an ECM mech beside them), and a complete nerf to all non-ecm lights and really any non-ecm mechs.

With the BAP change the standard radar range is going to be at a minimum 1km, and seeing sensor range is pretty much the only useful module (though people now can free up that module to use cool shot and other consumables), 1.2km, it becomes trivial to spot any mech without ECM.

This artificially makes the ECM bubble effect even stronger now that you're not just cutting sensors from 1km -> 250m, but 1200 -> 250.

Scouts acting as dedicated spotters are now easily visible and have that much longer to get into spotting range with either their own sensors, or to use TAG, or heaven forbid, NARC. Previously if a poptart was using 2x cool shot, the Jenner only needed to go from 800 -> 750 before he could TAG, and 800 -> 540 before he can begin using his primary weapons.

Flanking becomes nearly impossible for anything heavier than centurions and certain maps that lend itself to massive cover to get into close range.

The whole thing stinks of getting streaks to be used (the primary benefit of new BAP), when that weapon system really just needs to be ejected into the sun. There were plenty of other ways to buff BAP to make it useful rather than being pigeonholed into being a super close range ECM counter.

It won't change light fights, as there is only one other viable light that doesn't have ECM and has missiles (the Jenner D), which with state rewind would still probably be better off with 2x srm4s or a 6 pack and saving the BAP tonnage for ammo and JJs.

BAP is mainly going to benefit people who can't aim and streakkitties and rely entirely on streaks to hit lights, which is just ******* stupid. And streakkitties aren't probably going to be even that prevalant because PPC boats are just going to poptard their ears off long before they can even get remotely close...

Edited by hammerreborn, 08 May 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Lightfoot]

I'm thinking you can go back to complaining about LRMs now.

[Yankee77]

hammerreborn, on 08 May 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

This artificially makes the ECM bubble effect even stronger now that you're not just cutting sensors from 1km -> 250m, but 1200 -> 250.

Actually, ECM cuts down sensor range by 80%. A normal mech with the standard sensor range of 1000m could only detect an ECM mech when it got within 200m, and got disrupted when the mech got within 180m, leaving 20m margin to detect someone.

With the upgraded sensor range, as I recall this increased the sensor range by 25%, so it went from 1250m and 250m to detect ECM mech (margin of 60m). BAP has the same effect.

When you stack BAP with sensor module, you should get a range of 1500 meters, with ECM detection 300m to 180m... and then detection AGAIN from 150m to 0m.

As such, I don't see how it buffs ECM in any way. Indeed, this change will make LRMs more useful, as ECM mechs won't be able to shut them down just by stepping close (unless they carefull thread the 30m range bracket where their ECM will disrupt the missile mech).

Edited by Itkovian, 08 May 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

The recharge time has little bearing on poptarts. Same with heat, because a lot of players are making builds with 20-30% heat efficiency. Those builds are going to reach 100% anyway. No one's even trying to stop shutdown.

[Adrienne Vorton]

again...
-slower movement (50%)
-blurred visuals/ distortion of HUD elements (60%)
-inaccuacy in weapons convergence (70%)
-chance of ammo explosion(75%)
-internal damage(80%)
-chance for pilots inconciousness(85%) (blackout, loss of mech control,lasts 15 seconds)
-engine meltdown(90% +, chance increasing)

sudden heat rise from 0-80% (high heat alpha) , chance for meltdown
all effects enabled after a certain time in the displayed region...preventable by manual shutdown

everything that makes you carefully watch your heatscale to not keep your heat above 75% permanently...

yep, fights would last longer... and that´s a good thing imho

(numbers purely conceptional)

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 10 May 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[topgun505]

Heat sinks (single or double) should NOT increase your heat cap AT ALL. Additional heat sinks should only increase your heat dissipation.

The max heat shutdown threshold should be reduced at about 50% of what it currently is.

On top of that, overheating beyond a certain percentage of 100% should result in internal damage even if you dont do an override so you can't do a big alpha strike when you are at like 90% heat without DIRE consequences. Hmm. Thats a thought...maybe one of the consequences should be you run a risk of destroying one or more of your heat sinks each time you overheat too bad. Subsequently making your heat performance even worse.

Lastly ammo explosions due to heat need to happen. In the TT those chances started at 14 out the max of 30 on the heat scale. So I would say any time your heat spikes over 60% there is a chance.

Boogie Man, on 29 April 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

They should make double heat sinks only increase heat cap by 1.0 per heat sink (same as single heat sinks) and possibly a slight heat increase on PPC and ERPPC. With lower heat cap and slight increase to heat on ppc's I would like to see a 4 ppc alpha = automatic shutdown and 6 ppc alpha = high chance of core breach.

Edited by topgun505, 10 May 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Zylo]

topgun505, on 10 May 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Lastly ammo explosions due to heat need to happen. In the TT those chances started at 14 out the max of 30 on the heat scale. So I would say any time your heat spikes over 60% there is a chance.

The only problem I see with this suggestion is that the hottest running builds often don't use any ammo.

I don't think ammo should explode below 100% heat but I do think when a mech shuts down with heat far in excess of 100% the same penalties as shutdown override should be applied.

Let's say the maximum safe shutdown heat level is 110% which means the mech passes 100% and shuts down, if the heat doesn't go above 110% during this time it's just a shutdown penalty and nothing more. If a player at 90% fires multiple hot weapons they might spike to 130% heat. During the entire time the heat is above 110% the override heat penalties should be applied meaning damage from heat continuing until the heat level drops below 110%.

The most obvious penalty that should be applied first is heatsink destruction. This will give very hot designs a significant penalty if their heat spikes too high above the safe shutdown level.

[topgun505]

Yes I know that. Pure energy boats wouldn't be impacted by ammo booms; heat sinks failing from excessive heat overload would.

Also bear in mind there are buffs coming to LRMs, air strikes and arty strikes, and streaks will become overly useful again with the BAP buff. Anyone who is very slow will probably start mounting AMS and/or streaks for self defense and those ammo types are subject to cooking off.

Zylo, on 10 May 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

The only problem I see with this suggestion is that the hottest running builds often don't use any ammo.

I don't think ammo should explode below 100% heat but I do think when a mech shuts down with heat far in excess of 100% the same penalties as shutdown override should be applied.

Let's say the maximum safe shutdown heat level is 110% which means the mech passes 100% and shuts down, if the heat doesn't go above 110% during this time it's just a shutdown penalty and nothing more. If a player at 90% fires multiple hot weapons they might spike to 130% heat. During the entire time the heat is above 110% the override heat penalties should be applied meaning damage from heat continuing until the heat level drops below 110%.

The most obvious penalty that should be applied first is heatsink destruction. This will give very hot designs a significant penalty if their heat spikes too high above the safe shutdown level.

[Bigboij]

easy fix, add damage based on a percentage over heat max upon shutdown.

more than 30% slight internal
more than 50% more higher internal
more than 75% even more with chance of self destruct

this kind of thing has been in every MW ive ever played why not here?