107 replies to this topic

[Azimilia]

BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Gladius GLD-1
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Bergan VIII Endo Steel
Power Plant: 275 Core Tek Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Leopard V Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Magna Medium Lasers
1 Deathgiver Autocannon/20
1 Exostar Small Laser
Manufacturer: General Dynamics Land Systems
Location: Terra
Communications System: Omicron 1500
Targeting & Tracking System: Starbeam 3000
==Overview:==
The SLDF had always maintained a technological advantage over the rest of the successor states. When the Hunchback was introduced, the SLDF noted its hard hitting 200mm autocannon and knew it could be a nasty threat in an urban environment. Not to be outdone the SLDF made specifications for a mech that was durable, relatively easy to mass produce in large quantities and mounted the same caliber of gun as the hunchback.
==Capabilities:==
The gladius masses at fifty five tons, five tons more than the mech it was supposed to be its inspiration, but mounts more armor than the hunchback, is more difficult to kill than the hunchback, runs cooler than the hunchback, and most importantly much faster.
The gladius mounts ten and a half tons of ferro fiberous armor, fully protecting every inch of the mech. The front can take hits from a 200mm cannon without penetration, and the rear is thicker than the hunchback rear armor. The ammunition is protected by a CASE system that vents the majority of the force of detonation away from the rest of the mech, thus leaving the mech salvageable and gives the warrior a chance to retreat from battle.
With ten double heat sinks the gladius can fire its weapons and not overheat, this made the mech especially popular on desert worlds where heat sinks do not work as efficient as they would on a normal world.
An interesting note about this mech was that it mounted the same type of mounting system as the mercury battlemech. Technicians could easily swap out the 200mm gun for a gauss rifle and two tons of ammo, although the CASE could not be moved to the other torso. The AC-20 is of the same type mounted in the King crab, the deathgiver. Supporting the weapons are a pair of medium lasers and a small laser.
The biggest advantage the mech had was its speed; a 275 rated engine propelled the mech to a speed of 86 kph. This turned a dedicated city fighter into a cavalry mech that can close on an enemy and deliver a huge blow.

==Deployment==
Sadly not too many of the Gladius survived the Succession wars as the factories it was made at were destroyed in the Aramis Coup. The mechs that survived the fighting for Terra were taken by General Kerensky on his exodus, never to be seen again. The only trace of the mech's existence was in the Helm memory core. House Davion with its love for autocannons has taken to this mech and contracted Johnson Industries to begin production of this mech.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Gladius GLD-1
Mass: 55 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 91 pts Endo Steel 14 3.00
(Endo Steel Loc: 5 LA, 5 RA, 4 LT)
Engine: 275 6 15.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 185 pts Ferro-Fibrous 14 10.50
(Armor Crit Loc: 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 18 27
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 13 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 9 18/18
L/R Leg: 13 26/26
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
1 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
1 Autocannon/20 RT 7 15 13 17.00
(Ammo Locations: 3 LT)
1 Small Laser HD 1 1 .50
CASE Equipment: LT 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 14 76 55.00
Crits & Tons Left: 2 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,070,644 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,194
Cost per BV: 4,246.77
Weapon Value: 977 / 977 (Ratio = .82 / .82)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 24; MRDmg = 4; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 5/5
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/-, Overheat: 0
Class: MM; Point Value: 12

Edited by Miguel Zapata, 05 June 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[DocBach]

If we're stuck with 3025 tech from the get, I'm probably going to run something like this off the Founder's Atlas chassis;

Atlas AS7-R

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 152 points 10.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 300 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 22 12.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 304 19.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 48
Center Torso (rear) 13
L/R Torso 21 31
L/R Torso (rear) 11
L/R Arm 17 33
L/R Leg 21 42

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers CT 6 2 2.00
Autocannon/10 RT 3 7 12.00
SRM-6 LT 4 2 3.00
PPC RA 10 3 7.00
PPC LA 10 3 7.00
@AC/10 (20) RT - 2 2.00
@SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 17

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 19
3 4 4 2 0 4 0 Structure: 8
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

By pulling the LRM-20 rack and replacing the AC/20 with a smaller caliber AC/10 I can replace the medium lasers on the arms for PPC's. I prefer longer ranged direct fire weapons to indirect fire systems, so the dual PPC's matched with the similarly range profiled AC/10 makes this Atlas pretty good at longer ranges, until updated ER technologies and gauss rifles start to come along - when that happens I'll swap the AC/10 out for a Gauss rifle and the PPC's for ER models and make up for the difference in tonnage by upgrading the heat sinks to double strength and removing three or so to make weight, pretty much emulating my favorite 3025-3050 assault 'Mech, the BNC-3S/5S Banshee with a slower movement profile but more armor. Also much more robust as the 5S had an XL engine.

Edited by DocBach, 05 June 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Pvt Dancer]

Miguel Zapata, on 05 June 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Gladius GLD-1
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 55 tons

Good luck getting a 55 ton mech, since none exsist right now in the game.

I have a Commando build that uses LRMs and I have a special Hunchback build that is up gunned and up ranged while still having the AC 20. But I will be keeping that build to myself.

[Arikiel]

You want me to give you my secret prototype designs? Who sent you? I'll never tell! Where's my cyanide capsule?!

[Namwons]

DocBach, on 05 June 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

By pulling the LRM-20 rack and replacing the AC/20 with a smaller caliber AC/10 I can replace the medium lasers on the arms for PPC's. I prefer longer ranged direct fire weapons to indirect fire systems, so the dual PPC's matched with the similarly range profiled AC/10 makes this Atlas pretty good at longer ranges, until updated ER technologies and gauss rifles start to come along - when that happens I'll swap the AC/10 out for a Gauss rifle and the PPC's for ER models and make up for the difference in tonnage by upgrading the heat sinks to double strength and removing three or so to make weight, pretty much emulating my favorite 3025-3050 assault 'Mech, the BNC-3S/5S Banshee with a slower movement profile but more armor. Also much more robust as the 5S had an XL engine.

pretty much what my mech i posted on the first page . i opted to change the lrm to 15+artemis though to keep it all long range as its crit seeker after i blow holes in mechs with the three main cannons. only changing the armor to FF and leaving the internals and engine stock gave me enough tonnage to add ECM/BAP (although i might change out to endo steel and the BAP to a C3 master). all weapons 20+ range

Edited by Namwons, 05 June 2012 - 10:13 PM.

[DocBach]

Kind of, but instead of using weapons for close in your design uses electronic warfare for protection, yours is a dedicated long range fighter. The BNC-5S still had a buttload of lasers and SRMs to deal with threats up close. My updated tech Atlas doesn't have the hardpoints for a quad stack of medium lasers like I'd prefer, so I opted for double medium pulse lasers.

Switching the armor for endo steel is always a trade I make. Much better weight savings. If you drop in the ES chassis you have enough weight from the savings for the C3M without taking anything else out (unless your full up on crits).

Edited by DocBach, 06 June 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[Xinaoen]

Nice design, Doc. I'ma follow it up with a silly one!

Catapult BL-2 Blaze: https://docs.google....OExyd3VVaUU0TUU

So-named for its tendency to go out in a blaze of glory, the BL-2 is a quick and heavy-hitting but lightly armored skirmisher. With its limited ammo stores and a mere 7.5 tons of Standard Armor, the BL-2 forgoes lasting power in favor of sufficient offensive punch to take down a wounded or unsuspecting enemy in a matter of seconds.

The BL-2's 325 rated XL Engine allows it to reach a maximum speed of 86.4 kmph, while a pair of jump jets provide an extra boost of mobility. Fifteen Double Heat Sinks help to offset the tremendous heat generated by the 'Mech's armament, but the BL-2 will still quickly accumulate waste heat if it can't finish off its target in short order.

The BL-2's payload operates on a very simple philosophy: catch an enemy off-guard or preoccupied with allied brawlers, and backstab with maximum force. Twin PPCs poke holes in the enemy's armor, and then a barrage of 20 SRMs is launched to hit exposed criticals. Against the weak rear torso armor, this one-two punch can potentially core even the heaviest 'Mechs before they know what hit them.

The BL-2 forgoes CASE for its ammo stores, on the philosophy that its XL Engine makes exposed criticals in the side torsos a death sentence regardless.

Edited by Xinaoen, 06 June 2012 - 08:52 AM.

[Azimilia]

Pvt Dancer, on 05 June 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Good luck getting a 55 ton mech, since none exsist right now in the game.

I have a Commando build that uses LRMs and I have a special Hunchback build that is up gunned and up ranged while still having the AC 20. But I will be keeping that build to myself.

All the challenge said was use the weapons and equipment available, they never said it had to be a mech in game.

[Namwons]

DocBach, on 06 June 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Kind of, but instead of using weapons for close in your design uses electronic warfare for protection, yours is a dedicated long range fighter. The BNC-5S still had a buttload of lasers and SRMs to deal with threats up close. My updated tech Atlas doesn't have the hardpoints for a quad stack of medium lasers like I'd prefer, so I opted for double medium pulse lasers.

Switching the armor for endo steel is always a trade I make. Much better weight savings. If you drop in the ES chassis you have enough weight from the savings for the C3M without taking anything else out (unless your full up on crits).

yeah my design is dedicated long range combat build as commander mech to stay back and direct. and i can only have FF or Endo due to no more crits. FF + BAP for now, after the clans invade and we get C3 master, ill change to Endo +C3m. i do also have a variant that changes up the LRM15 for x4 SSRM2. (i always try to build my mechs around ECM/BAP/max armor...if any mech is aloud any electronics gear that is)

[DocBach]

Xinaoen, on 06 June 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Nice design, Doc. I'ma follow it up with a silly one!

Catapult BL-2 Blaze: https://docs.google....OExyd3VVaUU0TUU

So-named for its tendency to go out in a blaze of glory, the BL-2 is a quick and heavy-hitting but lightly armored skirmisher. With its limited ammo stores and a mere 7.5 tons of Standard Armor, the BL-2 forgoes lasting power in favor of sufficient offensive punch to take down a wounded or unsuspecting enemy in a matter of seconds.

The BL-2's 325 rated XL Engine allows it to reach a maximum speed of 86.4 kmph, while a pair of jump jets provide an extra boost of mobility. Fifteen Double Heat Sinks help to offset the tremendous heat generated by the 'Mech's armament, but the BL-2 will still quickly accumulate waste heat if it can't finish off its target in short order.

The BL-2's payload operates on a very simple philosophy: catch an enemy off-guard or preoccupied with allied brawlers, and backstab with maximum force. Twin PPCs poke holes in the enemy's armor, and then a barrage of 20 SRMs is launched to hit exposed criticals. Against the weak rear torso armor, this one-two punch can potentially core even the heaviest 'Mechs before they know what hit them.

The BL-2 forgoes CASE for its ammo stores, on the philosophy that its XL Engine makes exposed criticals in the side torsos a death sentence regardless.

I wouldn't say that that's a silly design at all. Actually, it's pretty awesome. Two PPCs to open fools up at long ranges, then a bunch of missiles to blow them up at close ranges, with enough speed to get you close in. I'm just very wary of Inner Sphere XL engines. Especially since I haven't read how losing a side torso with three engine criticals will effect 'Mechs in this game.

[Xinaoen]

DocBach, on 06 June 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

I wouldn't say that that's a silly design at all. Actually, it's pretty awesome. Two PPCs to open fools up at long ranges, then a bunch of missiles to blow them up at close ranges, with enough speed to get you close in. I'm just very wary of Inner Sphere XL engines. Especially since I haven't read how losing a side torso with three engine criticals will effect 'Mechs in this game.

The XL Engines worry me, too - and this build stores all of its ammo in the lightly-armored and CASE-free side torsos to boot. "Silly" might not be the right word, but it's definitely a risky design.

[Pvt Dancer]

DocBach, on 06 June 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

I wouldn't say that that's a silly design at all. Actually, it's pretty awesome. Two PPCs to open fools up at long ranges, then a bunch of missiles to blow them up at close ranges, with enough speed to get you close in. I'm just very wary of Inner Sphere XL engines. Especially since I haven't read how losing a side torso with three engine criticals will effect 'Mechs in this game.

Devs have confirmed that this is a mech kill. Only thing that saves you is there is currently no damage transfer and double armor.

[Pvt Dancer]

Miguel Zapata, on 06 June 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

All the challenge said was use the weapons and equipment available, they never said it had to be a mech in game.

The point was to make builds people will actually use in the game with the current mechs listed, not a wish-list of woulda coulda shoulda.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

My sniper Cataphract with enough ammo to last.
Cataphract X3

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E
Production Year: 3049
Cost: 6,684,173 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,854

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Gauss Rifle
1 ER PPC
1 Large Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 107 points 3.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 CT, 4 RT, 3 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: Fusion Engine 280 16.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 206 11.50
Armor Locations: 1 LT, 8 LA, 5 RA

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 22 33
Center Torso (rear) 8
L/R Torso 15 22
L/R Torso (rear) 8
L/R Arm 11 21
L/R Leg 15 27

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RT 15 3 7.00
Large Laser RT 8 2 5.00
Gauss Rifle LT 1 7 15.00
@Gauss Rifle (32) LT - 4 4.00
Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 19
4 4 4 3 0 3 0 Structure: 6
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SOA

[Namwons]

Heres a Commando 2-D build I just did quick lol. 11/17 speed 1 Mlas, Tag, ECM, and BAP.

[Vashts1985]

Stone Rhino STRH-XSPG

while such tactics did not fit the clans montra of honorable combat, inner shere engineers saw potential to re-purpose this hulking behemoth into a high mobility artillery unit capable of being hot dropped in key locations before the enemy has time to react.

removing the top mounted small laser and gutting the side torsos, they fit a modified, breech loading Long Tom onto the back of the mech. the cannon specifically designed for this application was reduced in length and brought down to 20 tons and shares mounting between the two side torso's (20 criticals, 10 each side), straddling the center. in order to stabilize the mech when firing the giant cannon, the computer was updated with special software to calculate the act of the recoil and use the servos to aid in counteracting the force, as well the mech kneels forward, while swiveling the arms backwards, where a pair of retractile pylons are inserted into the ground. along with these pylons, a pair of LB 10-X Autocannons were mounted in the arms for personal defense.

the modified long tom being a breech loaded gun, required the support of at least one assault class mech in the lance with articulating hands, usually an atlas, fitted with a few tons of ammo in a external stowage box. the remaining two mechs would be a light for reconnaissance and a medium or heavy for additional personal deference should the group be discovered.

after a few examples where completed, they saw a few trials but ultimately never saw any real action. good salvaged Stone Rhinos were in short supply and the modified long tom was too expensive to produce for any type of realistic production figured. while the mech never really proved to be a valuable asset, it id help kick off further studies into mech mountable artillery cannons.

[DocBach]

With the release of BattleMech 12, I played around with this guy - I traded out the LRM racks and large lasers for double PPC's for longer ranges. Up close, it packs two more SRM-6 racks for a total of 24 missiles, which by themselves is pretty bad to be shot by, but even worse when they exploit the wholes made by the PPC's at long range.


Stalker STK-3S

Mass: 85 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 7,548,925 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,566

Chassis: Unknown Standard

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 130 points 8.50
Engine: Fusion Engine 255 13.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 20 10.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 216 13.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 27 36
Center Torso (rear) 11
L/R Torso 18 25
L/R Torso (rear) 7
L/R Arm 14 23
L/R Leg 18 25

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPC RT 10 3 7.00
SRM-6 RT 4 2 3.00
PPC LT 10 3 7.00
SRM-6 LT 4 2 3.00
2 Medium Lasers RA 6 2 2.00
SRM-6 RA 4 2 3.00
2 Medium Lasers LA 6 2 2.00
SRM-6 LA 4 2 3.00
@SRM-6 (15) RT - 1 1.00
@SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
@SRM-6 (15) RA - 1 1.00
@SRM-6 (15) LA - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 19

[DocBach]

3050-tech fire support boat - 2 ER PPCs for direct fire support, 50 LRMs for indirect. Made possible thanks to endo steel and double heat sinks, but still much cheaper than comparable 'Mechs as it keeps the standard fusion engine instead of upgrading to XL.

Stalker STK-5F

Mass: 85 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 8,366,625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,753


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 130 points 4.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 CT, 2 LT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: Fusion Engine 255 13.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 15(30) 5.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 216 13.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 27 36
Center Torso (rear) 11
L/R Torso 18 25
L/R Torso (rear) 7
L/R Arm 14 23
L/R Leg 18 25

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RT 15 3 7.00
LRM-10 RT 4 2 5.00
ER PPC LT 15 3 7.00
LRM-10 LT 4 2 5.00
LRM-15 RA 5 3 7.00
LRM-15 LA 5 3 7.00
@LRM-10 (12) RT - 1 1.00
@LRM-10 (12) LT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (8) LT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (8) RA - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (8) LA - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1

[Kasiagora]

It was a little weird getting Google Docs to work, but let's see if this did the trick...

Caesaphract
I'm a big fan of the Caesar, which is a Federated Suns copy of the Cataphract, but every time I've piloted one my Gauss Rifle gets hit and goes boom. CASE helps save the pilot, but kills the engine, so I decided some while ago to drop the big exploding weapon for a big weapon with smaller, exploding ammunition. The finalized mech was a standard Caesar with an AC/20, and since 4/6 movement will take a few turns to close in on someone, I put on a Periphery weapon (Rocket Launcher-10) on it to take a single long range shot and help the ER PPC do its job until I close the gap.
This variant is a standard Cataphract (near as I can figure) with the medium lasers swapped for pulses like the Caesar, retaining the Cat's jump jets, I kept the standard PPC because really a couple of extra hexes isn't worth the 5 extra heat of the ER model in my opinion, and since there's no rocket launchers in MW:O yet I gave it a bit more armor, and 2 tons of ammo for the AC/20. I hope that 12 double heast sinks is enough. If I alpha strike I'd build up 33 heat in one turn, plus movement, but there's no reason to fire the AC/20 and PPC at the same time. One or the other will always be out of the other's optimal range thus one will probably miss anyway; so that's more like 23-26 heat in a near alpha vs the 24 that can be dissipated. Oh yeah, and I left the CASE off because, again, if the AC/20 ammo gets hit the XL engine would get knocked out anyway...

Edited by Kasiagora, 06 June 2012 - 10:33 PM.

[Namwons]

Heres a Lyan Scout Sniper Atlas lol. 4/6 with masc...but its 32.3 mil C-bills. Ouch. You Steiner guys better have a lot of money for this one.