100 replies to this topic

[Kaspirikay]

No, the issue is there will never be balance. We should look into other things like new lobby and cw.

[Ricama]

Trauglodyte, on 30 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

As an aside, it is understandable why people hate capping. Capping on the original 4 maps is fine cause they're small enough, even with the size of Caustic, for even the slowest of mechs to get back and do something. its the massive ones where everyone complains so much. And, quite frankly, it makes sense because there is a reason why everyone has weapons on their mechs - it isn't to fire warning shots.

But that people complain about it without putting themselves into the position to prevent it is what tickles me. It ****** me off, though, when I do my part or I swing back only to be left out to dry by the afore mentioned stat boarding idiots.

The real irony comes to light in a game that I played a few weeks ago. River City, as always, and my team starts at the port and goes through lower city while the other team naturally goes upper city. We're both in a cap war and, right as the game is about to end, someone shouts out "Capping is lame!" Well, I didn't see you come back and take us on by yourself so shaddap!

I had a similar experience in River City Night, except the other team didn't move to cap, they lined up along upper city and sniped. We capped and they called us ******* for not running across open water into their waiting guns. Of course they didn't make any move to stop us, just cowered in their defensive positions and called us names.

[Side Step]

As long as the game is in essence a grinding game and not a competitive one, players will do what gives the most rewards.

Killing gives more money than capturing. Dragging out battles only reduces money per time spent. As a consequence, most people will run in a straight line to the enemy in order to ramp up those kills as fast as possible.

The game mode conquest seems taken directly out of WoT. In WoT it works because of the positional gameplay and how dug in tanks gain a significant defender advantage. MWO is very different, so the game mode as well as capping rewards need to change before capping is considered anything other than lame.

[Side Step]

Neverfar, on 01 May 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

It might be lame, but in my opinion it's even more lame to suggest removing capping as some sort of bizzare incentive to urge lights to walk up to the entrenched line of bloat-boats over there yonder.

I never suggested removing capping, just changed in some way or another.

[MaddMaxx]

Keifomofutu, on 30 April 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Cool you left your team out to dry in the middle while you base-camped in an assault. Congrats? For every one round that you win by stopping the cap they'll be 10 more that your team loses because you weren't pulling your weight at the front.

Your whole story is suspect. The lights have ways to get around you without you even knowing they're headed to cap.

If you can tell me how to force people to play the game your way then I might have a bridge to sell you. People play the game the way that is most fun to them. You change their behavior by making the "intended behavior" fun.

If that were true then those who QQ after a Cap loss on any Map while playing Assault mode are doing it too, just from the opposite side of the coin.

Why do "we" have to play "their" way when there is in fact 2 ways to Win?

Perhaps it is their behavior that is the bad one.

P.S. The Lights may arrive undetected but will never remain that way if they intend to Cap.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 01 May 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[zraven7]

Well, we could have a bit of a revolution. All of us Light players could just start capping the living bejeezus out of everyone. Eventually, if they want to win, they might start planning a defense.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I understand what the OP was saying, however there is not a strong reason to play anything but a TDM sort of setup (IMO). The base capping mechanic needs a ton of help.

If a team had to somewhat assault a base instead of parking near a drilling rig, then maybe that would help. If you had to actually attack a base defense of some sort and expose the internals of the base to cap it, then the other team could have time to organize a defense and go back (somewhat, we do often deal with PUGs afterall).

Right now, it does sort of serve a purpose. A light capping a base can split a force and make it more vulnerable. It does cause some strategy to be employed (I often watch tunnel exits and the such for base rushing), but overall it is a hollow mechanic as is.

With how both Conquest and Assault are currently implemented, I would rather TDM.

[MaddMaxx]

MeiSooHaityu, on 01 May 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I understand what the OP was saying, however there is not a strong reason to play anything but a TDM sort of setup (IMO). The base capping mechanic needs a ton of help.

If a team had to somewhat assault a base instead of parking near a drilling rig, then maybe that would help. If you had to actually attack a base defense of some sort and expose the internals of the base to cap it, then the other team could have time to organize a defense and go back (somewhat, we do often deal with PUGs afterall).

Right now, it does sort of serve a purpose. A light capping a base can split a force and make it more vulnerable. It does cause some strategy to be employed (I often watch tunnel exits and the such for base rushing), but overall it is a hollow mechanic as is.

With how both Conquest and Assault are currently implemented, I would rather TDM.

How about, instead of Base Guns, one of the team members attempt to stay in range of their base in case it gets attacked.

Sometimes even, if everyone is even a little paitent, the enemy will often come to you, on your side of the Map, so you have your TDM and a defense for your Base. Cool eh!

Edited by MaddMaxx, 01 May 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

MaddMaxx, on 01 May 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

How about, instead of Base Guns, one of the team members attempt to stay in range of their base in case it gets attacked.

Sometimes even, if everyone is even a little paitent, the enemy will often come to you, on your side of the Map, so you have your TDM and a defense for your Base. Cool eh!

And what if they have a squad of lights and decide to wait you out instead? Waitwarrior Online might not be the hit you thought it was. You could leave one guy defense but then you are down a man elsewhere and outnumbered 7 vs 8 if they don't cap. Or they do cap and your guy alone gets rolled. You know the number one rule against lights is not to be caught alone against multiple right?

Not only that but this is pubs. Nobody wants to wait seven minutes for the enemy team to stroll across the entire map on alpine or tourmaline. People just aren't that patient on either team. Again you are making the mistake of expecting people to change. As a group they won't. Not until the game changes.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 01 May 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Weird, when I play in a group, we have no trouble digging in and waiting.

I seem to see a common theme across many threads on this forum. Impatient, undisciplined pugs.

Which only wants me to have the 'old ways' brought back so groups of any size were in the public queue. Y'all getting tired of running into an organized team and getting slaughtered? Form a team or at least type something before you run into our guns, grow a set of patience. /evil grin.

Nah, those days of slaughter were boring, but if you don't attempt to teach tactics to the pugs, and if the pugs don't want to listen... there isnt' anything in the world that's going to change the situation, because you're going to have the same problem on TDM too.

[Keifomofutu]

Roadbeer, on 01 May 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Weird, when I play in a group, we have no trouble digging in and waiting.

Weird, when I play in a group,

group

Huh it's almost like that's not like a pub match at all.

[Roadbeer]

Keifomofutu, on 01 May 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Huh it's almost like that's not like a pub match at all.

Roadbeer, on 01 May 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I seem to see a common theme across many threads on this forum. Impatient, undisciplined pugs.

... but if you don't attempt to teach tactics to the pugs, and if the pugs don't want to listen... there isnt' anything in the world that's going to change the situation, because you're going to have the same problem on TDM too.

[Braggart]

Pugs are the only thing that is going to keep the game alive. So don't delude yourself.

But if Pugs arent willing to stay and play, the game will die.

[Profiteer]

Assault maps should only have one base. You randomly get assigned to defend that base, or assault it.

Simple.

[Keifomofutu]

Profiteer, on 01 May 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Assault maps should only have one base. You randomly get assigned to defend that base, or assault it.

Simple.

But then my suggestion to rename the game mode Tradzies won't go through.

[operator0]

To be honest, over the last few weeks, while in a PUG match, I can cap the base in a fast Flame build nearly every time I play if I wanted to, especially on the big maps. It's become rather boring actually and one of the reasons I've haven't been playing much. I've noticed more fast mechs over the last few days so this may be changing.

When there are 6 Highlanders and 2 DDs, this is my go to option though. It's almost a guaranteed win every time.

[MrVop]

OH MY GOD.

There are two groups of people in here. one is saying I like to play this way and its fun for me but I wish there was more to it, the other is saying I like to play a different way and its fun for me but I wish tehre was more to it.

Then you both tell each other how your way is better to play and you shouldn't tell others how to play.

Caping is OK. If you enjoy it it's fine.
Guarding is OK.
Intercepting is OK.

What you both want is a better reward system for guarding. so when you do a good job and the game is over. you dont look at the score screen and see 45k cbills and 150 xp. See capping with not combat involved and defending is more fun for everyone if you add a little incentive, that is about all a light pilot wants.
And you're asking people to "defend" like that is even a remotely fun thing right now. You're asking someone to pretty much gurauntie they will get almost no money and xp and a slight chance they might chase one light away while gimping the actual fight.

There. There is your ******* problem. People want more incentive to cap/defend.

Edited by MrVop, 01 May 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Zerberus]

Keifomofutu, on 30 April 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Sorry no. Nothing short of max speed lights can get back to stop the cap on alpine or tourmaline from the middle. Its a long stretch even for a light. Should losing your single light on those maps be an autolose? Like I said though I think the devs are looking into it because assault is flat out broken as a game mode on those two maps.

Interesting since I do it even in my Atlas D with teh stock 300 engine in it, the D-DC and RS with 350 and 360 do it even better....

maybe you`re carrying too many heavy weapons in your stalker and encroaching on your engine size?

Edited by Zerberus, 01 May 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[Target Rich]

Actually...the problem is the game economic system...which awards virtually nada to winning...

It's because PGI purposefully set the game up to drive you fricking bonkers with a purposefully stupid economic model...they are out to make money and the game is designed around fustrating an group of already captured mecha fanatics to the point to where they spend beaucoup dollars of hard cash to purchase mega MC's to unlock the stupid modules that are required to make the purposefully nerfed sensor suite (radar) and the missiles work properly. The grinding system extends to the entire game....it is drawn directly from yet another seriously stupid game called World of Tanks....

It is NOT mecha and has never ever been used in any mecha title during the past 25 -30 years....and is guaranteed to keep the player base restricted to dedicated "tin foil mech heads" that are so fanatical to play mecha they will put up with this mickey mouse manure just to play this **** poor beta.

That said.,...I am hoping that PGI somehow has a clue and is saving beaucoup of stuff for that magic release date in September...

Wouldn't it be nice to have a balanced meta game...or even a metagame period instead of four rotating maps with different weather conditions...and you cannot even select the maps or your group...

League play of some form

A decent STABLE of mechs that does not require MONTHS of FRICKING BS GRINDING to acquire...

A decent meta game like chromehounds...with three "nations" a hundred or so world territories and multiple battle maps per territory...plus salvage and benefits to your side accrued by winning the war....

Ah well....It makes sense doesn't it to spend literally hundreds of dollars in real money or grind man months....to get what other games PROVIDE YOU RIGHT UP FRONT....

Wow...like this is the "perfect" model for gaining wide interest and acceptance to the gaming public of pc owners...OOPS forgot,...this game only plays on about 20-30% of the installed PC's anyway...and PGI has no intention of streamlining the code to make it work on anything other than high end gaming PC's...

Like I said...the current situation gains the approval of the "tin foil hat" brigade of mech fanatics who have grinded for the past year ...spent hundreds of dollars....and acquired all their pretty toys....in this exceptionally buggy beta... This forum is filled with the obviously unbiased commentary from these mecha elites...

Of course the perspective of the newbie lowenders....you know the millions who must be attracted and retained by PGI to make this game even remotely feasible...

Of course this mickey mouse economic system that grinds you into the dirt will appeal to this mass market.....


NOT....!!!!

[ElLocoMarko]

Homeless Bill, on 30 April 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

...
LRMageddon was bad, and Splatcats were just as cheesy as anything else. But I had more fun before the swing towards sniping. I could play LRMs, a sniper, or a brawler and be valuable. Right now, I feel like I'm short-changing the team without PPCs.
...

I agree with this part. Each of my classic mechs seems to be growing a new PPC every week. They are very easy to hit with at fairly extreme ranges.