148 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

FupDup, on 05 May 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

By "extra Streaks" do you mean ammo or the actual launcher? If it's the former, then Cravens don't have to sacrifice much armor at all. My own version is maxed out except for having only 21 points in each arm and gets 2 tons of Streak ammo (which is plenty).

Anyways, I tried to recreate the 2X described above in Smurfys: Guesstimated Raven 2X
It has AMS because I'm guessing you like AMS or something. Whatever. 38% heat efficiency with 12 DHS (half of which are only poordubs).

Here is a variant of it I hashed together:
Upgrade Version
This one bumps the engine up to 220 for 112.0 KPH. It 11 DHS, 9 of which are truedubs (your 4-ton engine version can pack 12 DHS total, and only 6 of them are truedubs). 9 x 2 + 1.4 x 2 = 20.8 heat cap/dissipation for my variant compared to 1.4 x 6 + 2 x 6 = 20.4. So it gains 0.04 more heat efficiency and moves a crapton faster. Smurfys is showing that the guesstimated version has 1% higher cooling efficiency but that doesn't seem quite right (see math above for the breakdown of heatsinks).

Ammo. The cookie cutter runs out too quickly for solo 3-L piloting and I like my Ravens running at 1.7 heat efficiency or greater. I run out of streaks rather quickly with just two tons, not to mention the ammo explosions I used to endure since the single tons were isolated in the legs and easy to detonate so I go for 4. If nothing else, then as padding as every time I lost a leg, I had an ammo explosion take me out.

Actually, anyone can hit an 86 kph Raven 4x. But when the choice is that or a bang cat, what do you pick? When the choice is the Raven or an Atlas? Who do you shoot? Splatcat or 4x? Stalker or 4x? There's an advantage in being labelled "inferior."

Today they went for my legs, and I reallocated armor accordingly. Normally they don't go for that because on most Ravens, twin AC/20 to the face is an instant kill when they're stationary. The ****** AC/20'd my leg! My own armor is usually allocated 44 FCT, 32 FRLT. When the target is slow, I prefer to move quickly unless I have an assault near me, then I keep slow to minimize attention and creep up beside and out of sight to hammer in a hole for the kill. People get tunnel vision easily, where nothing else matters unless it's fast enough to draw attention. Now if the target is fast, I stop altogether as it makes headshots and legshots easier, as well as allow me to turn as fast as a Raven 3-L can run.

Brawling Spiders when they first came out. Pre HSR, and when aiming was terribly hard. This is the first time running the 4X build since both the invention of the XL engine and loss of the ability to drop-kick Atlases with a single JJ. (Greatest strength of the 4x was the ability to jumpjet and 'kick' an enemy assault.) You didn't have an animated kick, sure, but you fall, hit them with your legs, and they fall over. Today I run it even better with HSR, better restraint in firing, and a number of things.

I miss drop-kicks though.

This is a slightly improved version of the 4X from this morning after being legged for the first time. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5778e7c640c36bb It continues to vary depending on my mood.


This is the actual build with the 2X. I only use the AMS on the Raven 3-L because it always got into streak fights. The 2X and 4X don't have to worry about that because these days streaks are pretty weak compared to the rapid damage of twenty damage.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7f465170ed0bee4
Last night it had ER PPCs. With ER PPCs, it has 1.17 heat rating in game. With standard PPCs it ran 1.38 heat efficiency. Actually though, simply having this moment to look at my original design has allowed me to see a way to improve the heat efficiency of the ER PPCs to 1.21 since I forgot to add endo steel. Though I do see that being able to add that engine is possible.

And true, that speed boost is nice. Looks like I'll be getting an XL 220 engine soon to give it a try. Then maybe I can play it a bit like I do with the X-5. <-- you might get a kick out of that.

Still, the 4X itself uses the XL 170 engine rather well. Also upgraded to a 180 engine but it comes with the sacrifice of the backup weapon or a jumpjet. Neither of which I like giving up.

------

In general the main reason I prefer the 4x, is because no other Raven can kill most mechs in just two well-placed shots, and then do it 3 times in a row back to back without heat issues. Sure the other two can do PPCs, but the heat! Of course 3 LL's could do it, but seriously can you HOLD those onto the cockpits?

Wish I was recording that match. Was playing forum warrior and forgot I launched into a match. I was the last player and screwed, sitting on our base in River City. Because of the situation I didn't screw around like usual and aim for the chest or legs as I do in the videos. I like fighting fair but 3 against 1, I had to fight dirty or look like a complete fool. Two Atlases and a Centurion were approaching. I didn't have a chance. I think I could have browned my jeans a little. Centurion arrived first. He came up to me and stopped, apparently overconfident in seeing a Raven 4x hiding with its back against some crates with only two barrels and two weapons. He shot me with twin medium lasers. His arms readily missing but his body still in good shape. Pesky zombies. I went for the classic closed beta bug -- I shot his mohawk. Bam, Head armor is gone. Again. He's dead. He cried hacker. The two Atlases came in from two directions. One slightly delayed through buildings while the other came by water. I went for the building one first, abandoning the base to the cries of the team. "Get back to base!" "Fight noob." I came up beside the Atlas who was squeezing himself between the two large unusually shaped towers and poked him in the back with the small laser. He turned around. As he turned I went for the eye. His medium lasers went through the air blindly, possibly a reaction? I stepped back a little to get a clear sight on my target as he looked down at me. Bam. Dead. By now the chat had less antagonism by my team. I moved on to the last Atlas who was on our base. I leaped onto the base itself and while in the air I turned to face him. Once I landed he looked up at me. Bam. AC/20 followed by a small laser. Squeezed in another SL before I got in a second AC/20 shot.

Two Atlases and a Centurion felled back to back by a single Raven 4X, never reaching above 20% heat. No other Raven can do that. That's why I love my 4x.

I confess the 2X is okay, and I do vouch for it. But both it and the 3-L are inferior to my 4X unless they can get me through a situation like that without overheating or dying.

----

Now Icefang, I tried using a Jenner in the same way as I use my 2X after our last disagreement on them. It does the same job, but I found that the Jenner's CT is so wide that they are easy to hit. I died more, and wasn't happy.

Before checking back here, I had killed a Jenner K in a close up fight with the Gauss Rifle variant of the 4X. When I came up behind him, I even said his name in chat. "Hey (name redacted)." "Beep beep. I'm behind you." He started running before he turned around and so we began the usual circle of doom. He fired his lasers. I gave him 3 slugs of Gauss, then I thanked him. Sadly he was my only kill. The sniper Treb I worked on was kill-stolen by someone who thought I needed to be rescued when it then rushed me with streaks. I was just waiting for the GR recycle time. The Gauss rifle requires too much sacrifice to be practical on the Raven 4x.

I like Jenners too, but it's much easier to focus damage on their front torsos since the sides of their saucers count as their front ends. They're like dragons in that aspect, where shooting the sides of a Dragon's belly still counts as CT. As such, I don't find them to be as good when it comes to sniping. Also with their PPCs so far off to the side, I had convergence issues.

The main reason the 4X and 2X Ravens work as escorts is people choose to attack the bigger mechs first. If they don't, back off and hide behind the bigger mech's legs until they do shoot the bigger mech instead. The 2X and 4X generally can't chase lights and if they do, they get isolated and die. The whole point of what I'm saying is that the 2X and 4X cannot play like the Jenner or the 3-L. Light mechs are ~Not~ created equal and so a different style of play needs to be adopted to do well with them.

You are correct in that the Ravens 2x and 4x in my style actually play more like proper Hunchbacks. They outperform the AC/20 4G, though they have trouble competing with the other variants it's true. However unlike Hunchbacks, the 4X and 2X don't draw the same kind of attention. Once someone sees what it is they go for a more dangerous threat, never knowing how badly they screwed up until it's too late. Besides. It's a lot more fun to chase and kill Jenners. They're like Spiders. Someone sees one, the ENTIRE team chases them!

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Hellen Wheels]

Wow, look at all the pretty photoshopped screenshots.

Too bad the game doesn't really look like that.

[ICEFANG13]

Agree and disagree. Its 100% true, the Jenner may have, to size and rest of body, the worst hitbox honestly, but the Raven's have massive legs. People say, leg lights. In the case of the Raven, its very true, and very good. Even on the lesser Ravens. But Jenner's legs are significantly smaller and safer on it, although not immune. I generally die with exposed legs, and center torso, so much that I've considered removing a lot of armor on the sides and arms. You know how man Ravens die with just no legs and moderate armor on the body.

Raven's have a much better hitbox about the waist, but those legs. MMMMM chicken legs.

[Corvus Antaka]

very nice!

[FupDup]

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Ammo. The cookie cutter runs out too quickly for solo 3-L piloting and I like my Ravens running at 1.7 heat efficiency or greater. I run out of streaks rather quickly with just two tons, not to mention the ammo explosions I used to endure since the single tons were isolated in the legs and easy to detonate so I go for 4. If nothing else, then as padding as every time I lost a leg, I had an ammo explosion take me out.

I tend to rarely run out of ammo (usually get fairly low but not depleted) while pugging, so maybe I just play more conservatively with it? (i.e. hang back and play peekaboo with ML until the time is right). Ammo asplosions can be avoided by putting the ammo in the arms (which are rarely ever damaged to the point of internals being exposed).

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Actually, anyone can hit an 86 kph Raven 4x. But when the choice is that or a bang cat, what do you pick? When the choice is the Raven or an Atlas? Who do you shoot? Splatcat or 4x? Stalker or 4x? There's an advantage in being labelled "inferior."

The average Joe will go for the thing that looks scarier, AKA not the 4X. I personally go for whatever is the fastest and easiest to eliminate so that it can stop absorbing and dishing out damage. So, if I see a critical Jenner or something and a Fatlas, that Jenner dies first.

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Today they went for my legs, and I reallocated armor accordingly. Normally they don't go for that because on most Ravens, twin AC/20 to the face is an instant kill when they're stationary. The ****** AC/20'd my leg! My own armor is usually allocated 44 FCT, 32 FRLT. When the target is slow, I prefer to move quickly unless I have an assault near me, then I keep slow to minimize attention and creep up beside and out of sight to hammer in a hole for the kill. People get tunnel vision easily, where nothing else matters unless it's fast enough to draw attention. Now if the target is fast, I stop altogether as it makes headshots and legshots easier, as well as allow me to turn as fast as a Raven 3-L can run.

It was only a matter of time until they took a bite out of those delicious chicken legs.

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

This is a slightly improved version of the 4X from this morning after being legged for the first time. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5778e7c640c36bb It continues to vary depending on my mood.


This is the actual build with the 2X. I only use the AMS on the Raven 3-L because it always got into streak fights. The 2X and 4X don't have to worry about that because these days streaks are pretty weak compared to the rapid damage of twenty damage.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7f465170ed0bee4
Last night it had ER PPCs. With ER PPCs, it has 1.17 heat rating in game. With standard PPCs it ran 1.38 heat efficiency. Actually though, simply having this moment to look at my original design has allowed me to see a way to improve the heat efficiency of the ER PPCs to 1.21 since I forgot to add endo steel. Though I do see that being able to add that engine is possible.

And true, that speed boost is nice. Looks like I'll be getting an XL 220 engine soon to give it a try. Then maybe I can play it a bit like I do with the X-5.

Wouldn't you want to move the JJ's to the same area as the AC/20 ammo for some more crit resistance?


I tried the Ghettopuma myself for maybe 10 or so matches like a month ago, but then the enemy ate my KFC chicken legs. It also has a hard time defending against other lights...who legged me as well. *double sadface*

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The main reason the 4X and 2X Ravens work as escorts is people choose to attack the bigger mechs first. If they don't, back off and hide behind the bigger mech's legs until they do shoot the bigger mech instead. The 2X and 4X generally can't chase lights and if they do, they get isolated and die. The whole point of what I'm saying is that the 2X and 4X cannot play like the Jenner or the 3-L. Light mechs are ~Not~ created equal and so a different style of play needs to be adopted to do well with them.

Pardon my semantics, but doesn't escorting usually refer to something along the lines of bodyguarding? In the playstyle you describe, it sounds more like you use them as meatshields and distractions instead of escorting them.

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

In general the main reason I prefer the 4x, is because no other Raven can kill most mechs in just two well-placed shots, and then do it 3 times in a row back to back without heat issues. Sure the other two can do PPCs, but the heat! Of course 3 LL's could do it, but seriously can you HOLD those onto the cockpits?

Wish I was recording that match. Was playing forum warrior and forgot I launched into a match. I was the last player and screwed, sitting on our base in River City. Because of the situation I didn't screw around like usual and aim for the chest or legs as I do in the videos. I like fighting fair but 3 against 1, I had to fight dirty or look like a complete fool. Two Atlases and a Centurion were approaching. I didn't have a chance. I think I could have browned my jeans a little. Centurion arrived first. He came up to me and stopped, apparently overconfident in seeing a Raven 4x hiding with its back against some crates with only two barrels and two weapons. He shot me with twin medium lasers. His arms readily missing but his body still in good shape. Pesky zombies. I went for the classic closed beta bug -- I shot his mohawk. Bam, Head armor is gone. Again. He's dead. He cried hacker. The two Atlases came in from two directions. One slightly delayed through buildings while the other came by water. I went for the building one first, abandoning the base to the cries of the team. "Get back to base!" "Fight noob." I came up beside the Atlas who was squeezing himself between the two large unusually shaped towers and poked him in the back with the small laser. He turned around. As he turned I went for the eye. His medium lasers went through the air blindly, possibly a reaction? I stepped back a little to get a clear sight on my target as he looked down at me. Bam. Dead. By now the chat had less antagonism by my team. I moved on to the last Atlas who was on our base. I leaped onto the base itself and while in the air I turned to face him. Once I landed he looked up at me. Bam. AC/20 followed by a small laser. Squeezed in another SL before I got in a second AC/20 shot.

Two Atlases and a Centurion felled back to back by a single Raven 4X, never reaching above 20% heat. No other Raven can do that. That's why I love my 4x.

That Centurion was an utterly horrible player--nobody in their right mind would stand still even against something like an MG Spider. In the case of the Atlai I guess you just have really amazing aim...although they probably weren't the brightest bulbs on the tree, either. Normal Fatlai should have alpha'd you right in the legs or the torso at the very least.

Edited by FupDup, 05 May 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Koniving]

ICEFANG13, on 05 May 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Raven's have a much better hitbox about the waist, but those legs. MMMMM chicken legs.

Very true. The Raven's legs are easier to hit.

Hellen Wheels, on 05 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Wow, look at all the pretty photoshopped screenshots.

Too bad the game doesn't really look like that.

Fun fact: The game USED to look like that, actually. All that is done to those images is that Brightness was lowered by 5. Contrast was raised by 5. Saturation was raised by 5. It was some other program used to do that, too. These are similar to the simple effects the DX 11 ENB that used to be enabled for the game during closed beta would do.

Example:

Spoiler

Much like the difference between this (ENB off)


and this (ENB On). Except this difference is in game, much like it used to be in closed beta for MWO.

Fun fact 2: MWO only runs up to medium settings. Nothing above them really works. Too many lower end PCs had problems, higher end PCs also had issues due to bad optimization. You can switch to high and very high, but they are mostly disabled. The quality textures simply do not exist yet. The higher end settings don't enable anything beyond that on medium. LoD is about all that works beyond medium. Not even Motion Blur works.

Spoiler

(This was a Spider in full motion. Motion blur is set to very high. Where's the blur?)

Also note the Anti-aliasing. Rather the lack of it. Atari quality jagged edges!

DX 11! Note all of these are with the setting "High" as Very High was unplayable for me. Now I set mine to Very High at 50 FPS higher than "high" back then. Strangely, it looks no different on Medium, and I get no FPS gain.


Just enjoy how pretty the virtually untextured snow of the frozen city map was, with just a few options ticked.


When Flamers were practical.

Fun fact 4: Lordred (the screenshot taker) explains the other Graphics card-level enhancements done to improve the look of the game. Check them out here.

Final Fun Fact: Bryan Ekman said that higher end optimizations, DX 11, and the high-quality goodness will be coming sometime around July. Which likely includes upgrading and enabling the High and Very High settings.

[Koniving]

FupDup, on 05 May 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I tend to rarely run out of ammo (usually get fairly low but not depleted) while pugging, so maybe I just play more conservatively with it? (i.e. hang back and play peekaboo with ML until the time is right). Ammo asplosions can be avoided by putting the ammo in the arms (which are rarely ever damaged to the point of internals being exposed).

Wouldn't you want to move the JJ's to the same area as the AC/20 ammo for some more crit resistance?

Pardon my semantics, but doesn't escorting usually refer to something along the lines of bodyguarding? In the playstyle you describe, it sounds more like you use them as meatshields and distractions instead of escorting them.

I am usually very aggressive, and prefer larger targets to smaller targets. You start harassing a few Atlases back to back with streaks and you run out of ammo quick.

Hadn't thought of it at the time, because in the original design the crit system didn't make much sense to me. Plus it's hard to go back and mess with something that works.

You're absolutely right. Escorting might be the wrong term. You're not protecting them. You're protecting yourself by being near them. It's like accompanying someone to be your meatshield, soon as they die you drop them and pick up someone else. Much like certain types of people in the dating scene. Escorting just sounds better. Although, just by being near an Atlas, you automatically make your area a high risk target for any lone light. Especially when they get pegged by that first AC/20. If you're in a 3-L, would you rush a 4X with an AC/20, spot-on aim, who won't budge from the side of a seemingly capable Atlas?

In truth, it took 5 shots on the Second Atlas. The second shot went too high and to the right when he started moving. The rest was trying to get the eye as the behemoth tried to circle and shoved the digging platform between me and him. I actually poptarted for the killing blow when he started backing straight up with the platform between us (I was on the platform, but it's got that large silo on it). The first Atlas was that easy as he didn't know what was going on at first. He was in a K, if that tells you anything. The second was a DDC with a triple SRM rig. He did do quite some damage in the time or two he was able to hit me. But those details were trivial to the story. The point ultimately is that the 4X is capable of doing it. The others would shut down with the builds necessary to do the same thing.

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[FupDup]

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

I am usually very aggressive, and prefer larger targets to smaller targets. You start harassing a few Atlases back to back with streaks and you run out of ammo quick.

I prefer whatever is the most wounded or isolated. If no one stands out as easier to execute, then I'll help my allies get someone wounded. My own light style usually consists of what follows:
1. Find a vantage point and call out where most enemies are. Maybe also call out specific mechs and loudouts.
1a. If multiple fast enemies are spotted, skip step #2.
2. When the coast is clear (nobody within interception range) then partial cap to the brink.
2a. If a lone light or medium comes to intercept, kill him/her/it if possible (rarely die to a 1 on 1 when at full health).
2b. If more than one enemy intercepts, then run away if possible. If not, try to take a few pieces of them to hell with me.
2c. If playing conquest, cap all or most points.
3. Find a firefight where allies are and pick off injured enemies/assist in damage/harass/aggromagnet.
3a. If playing conquest, try to find and kill enemy cappers.
4. Any specialized tactics if the situation isn't turning out like a normal pug session.


As mentioned earlier, I prioritize lights and mediums most of the time because my big teammates often waste their ammo/heat on the terrain around the target.

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Although, just by being near an Atlas, you automatically make your area a high risk target for any lone light. Especially when they get pegged by that first AC/20. If you're in a 3-L, would you rush a 4X with an AC/20, spot-on aim, who won't budge from the side of a seemingly capable Atlas?

Non-3L Ravens are rare and AC/20 4X's are even moreso. In the extremely unlikey case of even encountering one, especially one with good aim, then I'd probably either find someone less protected to deal with first or try to play peekaboo from interesting angles. If that Atlas is seriously damaged, then I'll try to attack it from places where the 4X can't fire at.

Koniving, on 05 May 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

In truth, it took 5 shots on the Second Atlas. The second shot went too high and to the right when he started moving. The rest was trying to get the eye as the behemoth tried to circle and shoved the digging platform between me and him. I actually poptarted for the killing blow when he started backing straight up with the platform between us (I was on the platform, but it's got that large silo on it). The first Atlas was that easy as he didn't know what was going on at first. He was in a K, if that tells you anything. The second was a DDC with a triple SRM rig. He did do quite some damage in the time or two he was able to hit me. But those details were trivial to the story. The point ultimately is that the 4X is capable of doing it. The others would shut down with the builds necessary to do the same thing.

Those details actually make a lot of difference, because now it looks more like a struggle instead of a god-Raven smiting all who stand before him.

[Koniving]

FupDup, on 05 May 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Non-3L Ravens are rare and AC/20 4X's are even moreso. In the extremely unlikey case of even encountering one, especially one with good aim, then I'd probably either find someone less protected to deal with first or try to play peekaboo from interesting angles. If that Atlas is seriously damaged, then I'll try to attack it from places where the 4X can't fire at.

If the Atlas keeps drawing flies, it's time to abandon it for a new one. I can handle myself against one Raven 3-L in my 4X, but I wouldn't try to ask a newer player using a 4X to try it. Aiming that cannon takes practice.

Not everyone can pull off shots like these.

Spoiler

Spider returns from AFK to repeatedly shoot Raven 3-L through fog of frozen city. Kills.


Atlas eye shot in fog (testing grounds and direct time index)

FupDup, on 05 May 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Those details actually make a lot of difference, because now it looks more like a struggle instead of a god-Raven smiting all who stand before him.

They were left out for a reason.

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[Zabadoo]

WardenWolf: Is hiding in 'soft' cover, like trees, intended to be a viable way to hide from enemy view? If so, are you aware that draw distance settings affected by the low <-> high quality sliders can result in mechs appearing to be in thick cover when in the trees, but being completely out in the open and visible from a long distance?
A: Trees which are destructible (but not turned on currently), do not block targeting.

You did not get it. If I set my settings low I don't see trees . While a guy set on high sees trees. So a sniper setting his system on low for terrain draw doesn't see trees and just shoots mechs without a problem even if his target is in trees or behind stuff. He can direct line shot you.

[Zabadoo]

BlueSanta: When are you going to investigate the claims of an SSRM Bug currently in-game, where Streaks are almost always damaging the CT through either direct or splash damage, a problem that is especially affecting light mechs?
A: This actually does not happen, not every missile hits the CT every time. It’s random where each missile hits. Sometimes it may seem like you are being cored directly, however it is most likely due to splash damage. We are tuning this right now to minimize the SSRMs coring potential.


OMG . Leave it be. THe lights as it is are op. With there over the top armor. 5x the real games leg armor. Any dual blast ppc should outright strip the armor off a light and it doesn't. Even a rear ct shot doesn't. They are an abomination as it is. The only thing pgi should do is make them the scouts they should be and strip them of half the armor. I'm tired of seeing a light get 5 kills+ let's see. Run in circles shoot other mech in legs and back. With oversized weapons they shouldn't have. Like duel ppc raven.

[ICEFANG13]

Zabadoo, on 06 May 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

BlueSanta: When are you going to investigate the claims of an SSRM Bug currently in-game, where Streaks are almost always damaging the CT through either direct or splash damage, a problem that is especially affecting light mechs?
A: This actually does not happen, not every missile hits the CT every time. It’s random where each missile hits. Sometimes it may seem like you are being cored directly, however it is most likely due to splash damage. We are tuning this right now to minimize the SSRMs coring potential.


OMG . Leave it be. THe lights as it is are op. With there over the top armor. 5x the real games leg armor. Any dual blast ppc should outright strip the armor off a light and it doesn't. Even a rear ct shot doesn't. They are an abomination as it is. The only thing pgi should do is make them the scouts they should be and strip them of half the armor. I'm tired of seeing a light get 5 kills+ let's see. Run in circles shoot other mech in legs and back. With oversized weapons they shouldn't have. Like duel ppc raven.

Lights have 2X the armor, like all other mechs. That actually makes heavier mechs get a bigger advantage and hinders assassin light mechs a lot, who can't kill you before you can react.

You see, an Atlas has say, 100 armor, its doubled to 200, so it gains 100. The light mech has say, 25, its doubled to 50, so it gains only 25. Do you understand that?

PPCs are so good that even light mechs are using them, they didn't always do that. If you want to run stock mechs that's fine, but lights who don't use heavy XLs are not going to be good. The Jenner moving at 118 is not fast enough to be good enough (except if it carries 2 PPCs). It works both ways. I mean if lights can't change their weapons, neither should heavy mechs.

Finally, there is no heavy mech that has problems against moderately skilled light mechs doing this. All you have to do is aim. Even missiles who don't have HSR yet, heavy mechs can pack 3+ usually, and that require a lot less aiming. Seriously. You can kill light mechs with a single shot, you just have to be good enough to make that shot.

[FupDup]

Zabadoo, on 06 May 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

OMG . Leave it be. The lights as it is are op. With there over the top armor. 5x the real games leg armor. Any dual blast ppc should outright strip the armor off a light and it doesn't. Even a rear ct shot doesn't. They are an abomination as it is. The only thing pgi should do is make them the scouts they should be and strip them of half the armor. I'm tired of seeing a light get 5 kills+ let's see. Run in circles shoot other mech in legs and back. With oversized weapons they shouldn't have. Like duel ppc raven.

Tell me why they "should be" scouts only. I have multiple reasons that they shouldn't be:

1. Scouting has no impact on the flow of combat whatsoever with few exceptions.
Scout: "Hey guys, I'm in position and I have visual on the enemy. They're--"
Heavy/Assault: "--At the ridge, just like they were for the past few months. Thanks scout."

2. Scouting currently has pitiful C-Bill and XP rewards. The only way to make spacebucks is to kill or assist, so don't be surprised that you see lights trying to make a living.

3. It doesn't even support Battletech lore in most cases. In Tabletop, Commandos and Jenners were known for packing significant damage potential for their weight and performing hit-and-run attacks. The Spider's role was a speed demon with insane maneuverability that could make fast attacks on enemy rear armor. The only light in-game that you can make a case for being a scout-only is the Raven, and that only applies to the 3L variant (not the 2X or 4X).

There are craploads of non-scouting lights in TT (as well as a good number of recon-only mechs). Lights there are also known for being perhaps the most common or second most common (next to mediums) weight class because they were so cheap to build and repair. Heavies and assaults are not supposed to make up over 66% of a house's arsenal like they do in MWO--they're supposed to be rare. Note that I don't actually want any weight class to become rare (all of them should be a fairly equal split in a perfect world), I'm just pointing out how "scouts only" defies lore.

4. Being a dedicated targeting droid is just boring in general. Most people like left-clicking once in a while.



PS: Are you really offended by a Raven with dual PPCs? You should be happy that he's trying to snipe instead of cap or anklebite...just send a light or medium from your team to handle it, it will be an easy kill unless it has amazing aim (enter Koniving).

Edited by FupDup, 06 May 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[Rick Rawlings]

Wow, a big effyou on the whole GD thing, huh? Ok, well I salute your honesty on that part of the discussion. I'm still not buying your reasoning. You have managed to turn someone moderately positive towards your company into someone mildy negative towards it with your silliness. I am sure you will make up the difference with someone else...

[AlmightyAeng]

Great to see new information tidbits and some very specific answers. New features and content are always great...but having a balanced game that allows a variety of viable playstyles is what really guarantees fun for me. There seemed to be a number of questions answers that touched on progress in this category directly, and I thank you for it.

[warp103]

Cid Slayer, on 04 May 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

There was a thread on the forums somewhere (good luck finding it now!) which shows the actual hitboxes of the various mechs and by far the catapault had the largest head hitbox. I love fighting catapaults as they really are the easiest mechs to headshot.

you do not know what you are talking about neither does the dev. Here is a video of a cat headshot in any REPEAT ANY GLASS is headshot. Side, bottom, little side glass, All are head shots

Edited by warp103, 06 May 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[Terror Teddy]

Quote

A: Due to licensing restrictions, we are not able to sell physical items.

But it WOULD allow you to sell 3D models for use in 3D printers right?

Then I can at least print my own.

[BlackBeltJones]

Zabadoo, on 06 May 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

WardenWolf: Is hiding in 'soft' cover, like trees, intended to be a viable way to hide from enemy view? If so, are you aware that draw distance settings affected by the low <-> high quality sliders can result in mechs appearing to be in thick cover when in the trees, but being completely out in the open and visible from a long distance?
A: Trees which are destructible (but not turned on currently), do not block targeting.

You did not get it. If I set my settings low I don't see trees . While a guy set on high sees trees. So a sniper setting his system on low for terrain draw doesn't see trees and just shoots mechs without a problem even if his target is in trees or behind stuff. He can direct line shot you.

In the case cited the trees are not drawn with both High and Low settings.

[DemonRaziel]

Zabadoo, on 06 May 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

OMG . Leave it be. THe lights as it is are op. With there over the top armor. 5x the real games leg armor. Any dual blast ppc should outright strip the armor off a light and it doesn't. Even a rear ct shot doesn't. They are an abomination as it is. The only thing pgi should do is make them the scouts they should be and strip them of half the armor. I'm tired of seeing a light get 5 kills+ let's see. Run in circles shoot other mech in legs and back. With oversized weapons they shouldn't have. Like duel ppc raven.

Really? I mean - REALLY?! You want the Lights to become an even easier target? Granted, I mostly play my beloved SDR-5D so I am somewhat biased, for sure, but still, most of what you are saying is BS. What exactly do you expect the light 'Mechs to be doing? Something along the below lines?

"Hey guys, there's a bunch of enemy 'Mechs at E7, now go there and have fun. I will just look at you from a safe distance as to not get legged in 1 shot and then go sit on their base and end the game prematurely..." 'cause everyone loves games that end in 2 minutes with a base cap. Of course, I could also join the fight, but it might offend some boaters that they can't hit me and thus oneshot me like any other 'Mech in game. God forbid if Lights could actually even score a couple of kills with their godawful firepower (or godawful speed/armor, if they pack oversized weapons).

Let me ask you: What exactly is your vision of the role, the light 'Mechs should fulfill? But in a bit more details than "scouts", please.

With netcode fixes and HSR for E and B weapons, there is exactly one light 'Mech that still is an issue, as it was given all the good (and also somewhat broken) stuff. In fact, I don't think there would be an issue with the 3L, had its engine been limited in the same way, as the other Raven versions and has the SSRMs love for CTs been quenched.

FupDup, on 06 May 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Tell me why they "should be" scouts only. I have multiple reasons that they shouldn't be:

1. Scouting has no impact on the flow of combat whatsoever with few exceptions.
Scout: "Hey guys, I'm in position and I have visual on the enemy. They're--"
Heavy/Assault: "--At the ridge, just like they were for the past few months. Thanks scout."

2. Scouting currently has pitiful C-Bill and XP rewards. The only way to make spacebucks is to kill or assist, so don't be surprised that you see lights trying to make a living.

3. It doesn't even support Battletech lore in most cases. In Tabletop, Commandos and Jenners were known for packing significant damage potential for their weight and performing hit-and-run attacks. The Spider's role was a speed demon with insane maneuverability that could make fast attacks on enemy rear armor. The only light in-game that you can make a case for being a scout-only is the Raven, and that only applies to the 3L variant (not the 2X or 4X).

There are craploads of non-scouting lights in TT (as well as a good number of recon-only mechs). Lights there are also known for being perhaps the most common or second most common (next to mediums) weight class because they were so cheap to build and repair. Heavies and assaults are not supposed to make up over 66% of a house's arsenal like they do in MWO--they're supposed to be rare. Note that I don't actually want any weight class to become rare (all of them should be a fairly equal split in a perfect world), I'm just pointing out how "scouts only" defies lore.

4. Being a dedicated targeting droid is just boring in general. Most people like left-clicking once in a while.

QFT - emphasis mine

[Maarek Stele]

Community moral is unfortunately way down. Some of the answers and teasers of things to come are encouraging from PGI... I do hope they begin working hard to address the moral of the community. I think we all really really wish to see this game be successful. I know I do.

On another more down to earth subject, it has been said by the Devs that they wish to let the targeting remain all based on pilot actual skill. I think this is good, however, certain actions should make it harder to target across the board, and if it is the same across the board, then it doesn't affect skill based combat targeting right? Examples: Walking (moving slowly) should be slightly harder to target mechs than when standing still. As you do more complex maneuvers then it should get tougher to target effectively... Full speed (running) should be tougher than walking, and jumping should be the hardest targeting environment. As it is now, it is easiest to target while jumping, followed by standing still... Not much harder to target while walking or running than standing still. Seems like a reasonable way of helping to curb the ridiculous accuracy of the pop tarts right???